30-30 or 45/70?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Having trouble deciding on a levergun. I am hunting axis deer and wild hogs in the brush at no more then 100yards. I will probably go with a Marlin and a 20 inch or shorter barrel. Like open sights yet also like to take head and neck shots on my deer, so I need fairly good accuracy. What I am having trouble deciding is the caliber, 30-30 or a 45/70. I do reload and intend to shoot cast bullets. Which would you rather have and why? Also suggestions on other calibers will be noted. Thank you.

[JSnover]

Either would work at 100 yds but the 30-30 won't weigh as much

[carpetman]

I like the .308 in Win 88. But for cast I'd go with bigger bore---if going 30 cal I'd go .308--Savage also makes .308 levers.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

What is the approximant weight and recoil difference?

[saz]

If I had to decide between the two, it would be the 45/70. You can always load it down a little for deer, and hotter for the big hogs. Me, I am getting a puma 92 clone in 454 casull. It is short, light, and you have the option of shooting light 45 loads to hot 454's which are on the bottom side of a hot loaded 45/70. IMHO

[Old Ironsights]

Weight Difference? About 1/2 lb.

Recoil? Depends on how hot or soft you load the .45/70.

IMO the .45-70 is a more reloader-friendly cartridge with a wider usefulness envelope.

You can plink with .457 round balls & almost no powder or load up a 500gr behemoth and see out dinasours. Your choice.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I have had limited yet good experience with Savage guns. When it comes to leverguns though the Savages just have a different spirit in IMHO and do not feel like a real levergun.

[stubshaft]

My very first hunting rifle wa a Winchester mdl.64 in 30/30. I got that 45 years ago and used it to harvest Sheep, Goats, Axis Deer and alot of Hogs. Fifteen or so years ago I bought a Marlin 1895SS in 45/70 and have used that rifle to harvest the same animals. What it boils down to for me is this.

The 30/30 is lighter to carry, mount and recoil is softer.

The 45/70 (I now own 4 Marlins in 45/70) in slightly heavier, just a tad slower to mount and recoil is heavier. It is the most accurate Levergun that I own, and that says alot cause at last count I had 11 of them including a couple of Savage 99's.

When using cast boolits the 45/70 is what the 30/30 tries to expand to! It just flat @ss drops animals!

[ph4570]

I have a Marlin in 45-70 and a Winchester in 30-30. I highly recommend the Marlin 1895 cowboy. Put a recoil pad on it and no problem with hot loads, especially off-hand. A 350 gr 45-70 at about 1800 FPS will get it done nicely.

[Dframe]

If I'm going to hunt anything that will willingly perforate my hide, I want the largest and heaviest bullet I can find. 45/70! As earlier posters said, it can be loaded down for less dangerous game.

[Jim]

If you're interested, check out the link below and see what you can do with a .45-70. Then consider that you can load a round ball in it down to about 500 FPS and shoot squirrels. I have a Rapine mold that throws a 500 gr. round nose bore rider. I worked up a load that pushes it at 1600FPS out of my Marlin GG. It'll wallop the hang outa' you, but there's NOTHING on this continent that it won't park if you put the bullet in the right place. I'm sure there's a lot of fellas that will challenge me for this, but I'd say that the .45-70 is right behind the .30-06 in versatility.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

[DLCTEX]

We have both 30-30 and 45-70 Marlins in our battery and if one had to go it would be the 30-30. The 45-70 can do anything you'll encounter on this continent. The recoil pad is well worth having, as is the muzzle brake on the Marlin Guide Gun, and I like the SS.

[Old Ironsights]

...I'm sure there's a lot of fellas that will challenge me for this, but I'd say that the .45-70 is right behind the .30-06 in versatility.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
CHALLENGE! You got that reversed... :twisted: :mrgreen:

[nighthunter]

30/30 or 45/70 .... hmmmmm .... yes ... get them both. You will be glad you did.

Nighthunter

[big boar]

You can load the 45 down to light recoil for all the fun practice you want. I use a 450 Marlin, similar to a 45-70, and have 4 loads for it. A really light round ball load (almost no recoil at all) a light 300gr load (milder than a 44mag) a heavy 300gr load (recoil about like a 308 Win) and a heavy 400gr load that puts my eyeballs to the back of my head. All are way more accurate than my 30-30. Matter of fact I shoot better at 200yds with the 45 than at 50 with the 30-30.

[IHMSA]

Did you consider the 444 Marlin? Lighter and a little more versatile.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thank you for all the info guys. I was looking on the Marlin website and I like the look of their 1895SBL rifle. It seems to have all the features I am looking for right out of the box, and I love classic style with a modern twist. Will have to see if I can get my hands on one at local shop before I make my final decision, you know see how it feels. Anyway is there any reason not to go with this particular model for my needs? Also what kind of accuracy and effective hunting range can I expect from a gun like this?

[NHlever]

I handled both a Marlin 1895SBL, and a used Marlin 1895 with a straight grip, and 22 inch barrrel today. The older Marlin weighed within a couple of ounces of a Marlin 336CS 30-30 that I weighed in the store at the same time. Both were 7 lbs with iron sights. The 1895SBL handled very well. I liked the larger lever (cold around here) but did feel that the forend could be a bit slimmer. It was a lot more expensive than the standard 1895 at around $895, but it did have good sights, and the pitcatinny rail, etc. I got outstanding accuracy with the 1895 full sized rifle that I had, but I found myself leaving it home because it was just enough larger, and heavier than other rifles I had. (It was a PG stock with 22" barrel made during a period of "fat" stocks". Accuracy with the RCBS 300 gr FP was on the order of 1"-1 1/2" at 100 yards with the loads I tried.

[stubshaft]

If you're interested, check out the link below and see what you can do with a .45-70. Then consider that you can load a round ball in it down to about 500 FPS and shoot squirrels. I have a Rapine mold that throws a 500 gr. round nose bore rider. I worked up a load that pushes it at 1600FPS out of my Marlin GG. It'll wallop the hang outa' you, but there's NOTHING on this continent that it won't park if you put the bullet in the right place. I'm sure there's a lot of fellas that will challenge me for this, but I'd say that the .45-70 is right behind the .30-06 in versatility.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp


I have to disagree with you Jim. The 30/06 won't penetrate three horses broadside and drop them on the spot. (culling operation on one of the outer Islands).

[softpoint]

I have a .444, a 30/30, several 45/70's. Among those I have I'd probably keep the 45/70 if I could only have one, But since you are looking, why not give the .338 Marlin a look. Plenty of power for what you need, maybe shoot a little flatter than most .45/70 loadings if you need that. Or give the .35 Remington a look. It will do what you need to do also, cast bullets are big enough in the .35 for what you are hunting. Hmmm do they make a .35 Remington in a XLR Marlin? I may have talked MYSELF into something right here!:-D

[.45Cole]

Split the difference, 38-55 or the .375 win. The .375 is just a high pressure loading of the 38-55, ie 38-55/.375 win= 44spec/.44mag. You can get a '94 BB in .375 or a 1885.

[schreibwy]

I would choose the 45-70 for the simple reason it is so much damn fun. I''ve loaded hot and light. I've played with paper patched and tons of cast bullets. Of course the 3030 offers the same utility and shoots flatter, but I can't imagine it being as much fun.

I've used the 45-70 for varmints and I have loads for big bear or for cape buffalo for that matter. Although I have guns that cover tat range but they are rarely used. It's the 45-70 all the time.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I have been shooting both for a long time, either will do for a hog or deer with a good cast boolit, I prefer big bore lever rifles, 45/70 , 444 , big fat meplat on boolit. At 100 yards, no problem with either. If you stay with 300-350gr boolits in the big bore, the recoil is not to bad unless you go over 1800fps, then it starts to get your attention. The 405's and up above 1800fps will make you pay attention.

The weight difference with 20"bbl isn't that much and the 45/70 , 444 are easy to reload IMHO,
That said I like my 30/30's and 308's also, I'm just hooked on the old big bore.
Like the man said, buy one of each , you can't go wrong....[smilie=1:

[Junior1942]

Every man needs a lever action 30-30 AND a 45-70.

[oldhickory]

Every man needs a lever action 30-30 AND a 45-70.

Gotta go along with Junior on this one!:drinks:

[jlchucker]

Every man needs a lever action 30-30 AND a 45-70.

Yup! We do. I have no experience at all with hog hunting, so I won't opine on that. Either choice will work on whitetails, though--and the 45-70 with a big cast boolet can be loaded up for dinosaurs should global warming ressurect them in your neck of the woods, as previous poster has already suggested. From what others who know have posted, either caliber would work for your deer and hog needs. Why not split the difference, if you can only afford one rifle at the moment? Get yourself a 35 Remington.

[felix]

I agree fully with the 35 Remmie. About any cast boolit will shoot fine in that Marlin lever gun with no fuss, provided the boolit does not exceed about 220 grains. No Marlin 35 to be had? The Winnie 32 special shoots just as good with fully loaded 170 grainers, and not quite as hard on the shoulder as 200 grainer 35s. ... felix

[shdwlkr]

2ndamendmentnut
Well now to just make it a little harder I have a 30-30,45-70 and a 375 winchester and you really should get one of each as you will like them all.
You can have your 30-30 for deer, your 375 winchester for hogs and the 45-70 for when you are hunting both. All like cast bullets and all will do what you want so get all 3 and enjoy life.

[sundog]

The 32 Win Spl is better that 30-30, especially with cast, even though the 30-30 is no slouch. Either one fits the bill. Did I mention that the 32 is 'mo betta'?

Junior, since I do not currently own a 45-70 lever, I guess I am, yet again, gun shopping. Do you have any preference?

edit to add: Uhmmm, single shot okay instead of a lever?

[45nut]

30-30 and 45-70 are both marginal. :bigsmyl2:

Decent pistol cartridges though!

[45r]

Get a marlin 45-70 and you will not regret it.The 45-70 is great in a single shot rifle also.One shot is usually all you need with a 45-70 and you don't have to go looking very far or not at all sometimes when you plow a big hole through something.I think the 35 rem is a fine round also in a levergun.The 30-30 is good also but I always lean towards bigger is better and 45-70 boolits don't need to open up to work well.

[Old Ironsights]

My most likely next gun purchase (unless I gert very rich very soon, or figure out how to line the barrels of an old double shotgun) will be a Handirifle in .45-70... with a couple of other barrels to go with it.

[hicard]

I'm with softpoint on the 35 Remington. Little recoil and a whole lot of knock down power. Great caliber.

[sundog]

"30-30 and 45-70 are both marginal."

Cute...

[ktw]

45-70 or 30-30, Economic angle:

No one has mentioned yet that 30-30 brass is a lot cheaper than 45-70 and that your powder and lead supplies will go a lot further for the same amount of shooting.

45-70 is more likely to impress your hunting buddies and the guys down at the range. The deer and hogs are not likely to have a preference.

My inclination would be to go with a 30-30 or 32 special, largely on the grounds that they never made a 94 Winchester in 45-70 and I can't afford the 1886.

-ktw

[Freightman]

Humm! wasn't aware of another caliber other than 45/70!

[Old Ironsights]

Biggest problem with the .45/70 is that the .45 Colt is only .454 not .457... ;)

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Question for the guys talking about those round ball loads. Do they feed the Marlin tubular magazine or do you have two load them one at a time?

[Old Ironsights]

Never tried it in mine when I had one (wasn't reloading then). I'd think the biggest problem wouldn't be feeding or extracting, but whether or not the OAL would mess up the timing.

I'm tending to think not, but can't say for sure.

[9.3X62AL]

30-30 and 45-70 are both marginal. :bigsmyl2:

Decent pistol cartridges though!

Aren't YOU the droll one today?

I cannot think of a time since age 12 that a 30-30 WCF has not been part of the collection at home. All have been lever actions. My first deer fell to a 30-30's report, and it remains my longest shot taken on deer--125 yards.

A 45-70 of some kind has been around for the past 25 years or so. The current example is a Ruger #1, but a couple Marlins and one brief dalliance with an 1886 Winchester have made me miss having a levergun so chambered. After filling a couple other vacancies in the gun safe, another 1895 Marlin is a likely acquisition.

Both calibers are excellent cast boolit platforms. I would be hard-put to choose one over the other, both are such efficient hunting tools. Of course, there are no grizbears where I live--if there were, the scales would tip in favor of the 45-70. To me--it's a "push".

[shdwlkr]

2ndamendmentnut
have to wait for junior1942 to answer that question about round ball loads

[Jim]

I have to disagree with you Jim. The 30/06 won't penetrate three horses broadside and drop them on the spot. (culling operation on one of the outer Islands).

Well, what I meant by versatility is that there are so many loads that can be worked up in it. And pardon me if I seem offensive because that's not my intent, but I CAN drop three horses lined up with an '06. They'd just have to be lined up just right. A 165 gr. AP rd. at 2700 FPS will go slap through 3 horses. What kinda boolit didja run through three horses with a .45-70? I'm interested in that!

[Jim]

Question for the guys talking about those round ball loads. Do they feed the Marlin tubular magazine or do you have two load them one at a time?
They will feed. I've done it. You need a neat roll crimp at the diameter of the RB.

[Sprue]

Jr almost got it right...

I like them all but if I have to say, it would be in this order:


45/70 Guide Gun
1894C .357
30/30


The 45/70 is pretty versatile. Sometimes you feel your oats, sometimes not. Me I don't care for oats. Thats why my favorite plinker/hunter load is 15 grains of Unique (over 450 loads per lb). Thats 1230 fps @ 50 yds with 340 gr flat nose. I haven't found out yet but I would expect full penetration @ a hundred yds on a WV white tail.

[Jim]

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that a bit. Many a white tail have been hung by a ball from a muzzleloader at that velocity.

[largom]

IF I could ONLY have one it would be my 45-70. Most versatile. But you would have a hard time taking away my 30-30's and 35 Remy's.
Larry

[Lloyd Smale]

I like them both but for a cast bullet hunting gun the 4570 is the winner hands down. The .30s are a bit on the small side for shooting larger critters with cast bullets. the 4570 loaded down to about 1200 fps with a 400 grain bullet is mild recoiling and hits much harder and penetrates better then a .30 cal at any velocity.

[Junior1942]

Redheads are WAY better than blondes.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Redheads are WAY better than blondes.

Actually Junior, I have generally found that the ones who say yes are the best of the bunch :D

As to the rifle choice, it's like saying whats the better car a Camry or a big brutish V8? Both have their good points.

I'd go the 45/70 if I lived and / or hunted in an area which had big a$$ed nasty bears and such. Probably do most of my hunting with a cast Gould Hollowpoint, but have a few 405 Gas Checked Warp Speeders in my pocket, ready for quick deployment.

The 30/30 would be fine in those areas where the game is more agreeable and don't bite. Great cartridge, easy to shoot, economical to load, cast for, etc. I'd have a few Leverevolutions in my pocket, just in case something cropped up that was a bit beyond the cast boolit's brief.

If I did buy either one, I would be saving for the other one, because they are both great and you can easily make room for the pair of them. When I was shopping for the big bore, I'd be eaqually as happy with a 444 if I found one while looking for a 45/70.

Nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, that 338Marlin is a pretty neat looking cartridge. One of them in the XLR shiny object would be pretty handy as well.

MIck.

[Hog Hunter]

Well, when a large wild boar is charging me.... There is nothing like having a 45-70 in my hands, and knowing that if I can hit him ---- He will STOP!!!
A 30-30 is great for whitetail and smaller piggies, but like others have said.. the 45-70 will get that job done also..

Marlin 1895 SBL in 45-70,
But just to keep in the rifle rack of the truck.. Marlin 1894C in .44 Mag...

HH [smilie=1:

[shdwlkr]

Hog Hunter
If I am hunting hogs you are correct I want a big hole and I think if I didn't have my 45-70 with 425 grain bullets I would like to have my 375 winchester and 270 grain lead bullets as they really open up a hole in a critter right now.

[Hog Hunter]

shdwlkr
That would work! Although, in my youth, I almost always used the 1894C. But then we used catch dogs and shot placement was a little more certain.
I know this is a Levergun Thread, but I also have a lot of bolt action calibers and my Rem. 1100 that I could load up to stop boars. HOWEVER... I really like the option of haveing multipule shots quickly available. Esp. since my old eyesight aint what it used to be.....:mrgreen:

HH

[shdwlkr]

Hog Hunter
I hear you on the eye sight being less then it used to be. If I had to use a shotgun it would be my home defense shotgun with 8 shots and deer slugs should mess up a hogs mind really good.

[Hog Hunter]

That is what the Rem. 1100 is used for!! Stays next to my Bed....

The next Levergun I get, will be a Marlin SBL in 45-70. I like the extended mag, short barrel and the stainless steel is very durable and requires less maintaining. They are all weather guns. No more huddling over to try to keep the rain off the bluing and removing the foregrip to dry it out. I like guns that I can hunt with more than I have to clean, but then that is probably why my truck is always dirty and all scratched up...... :smile:

[Lead Fred]

Well Im half way there, I have a Model 30 AS

Now Im gonna have to keep an eye peeled for a good deal on a 1895CB 45/70!

[shdwlkr]

Deleted - Completely off topic. Post your political views in the Political Forum

[Doc_Stihl]

There aren't many things that a 45/70 can't do.....

[Old Ironsights]

There aren't many things that a 45/70 can't do.....
Prarie Dogs at 500yds? [smilie=1: :mrgreen:

[45 2.1]

Prarie Dogs at 500yds? [smilie=1: :mrgreen:

Well, as a matter of fact, things like that have been tried when the basic 300 yd shot with those full length condums got boring. Tough to see those little buggers with aperture sights too.

[ktw]

Tough to see those little buggers with aperture sights too.

Run out there and hit them up with some fluorescent orange paint first. :wink:

-ktw

[shdwlkr]

The only thing I can think of that the 45-70 can't do is hit something that is a mile and a Half away.

[JesterGrin_1]

Oh yes a 45-70 can go that far it just depends on the Nut behind the Butt lol. Just take a look at what the BPCR guys do. And do a google for Billy Dixon. :)

But to be honest a 45-70 can be loaded from mild to WILD so it can cover many things.

I have a 1894 Marlin in .357 and it is so close to a 30-30 I just do not see a need. And also the 45-70 which I have used for Deer but mostly HOG.

But after all these years I have learned one thing that any animal can do anything no matter what size of round you hit them with. I shot a Doe this last Deer season dressed of 145LBS Big Doe and hit her with my 45-70 Marlin GS at a little better than 140 Yards with a Ranch Dog 350GR BOOLIT that moves out at 1950. It went through one rib in and one rib out and turned both lungs to pudding and just missed the heart but that Deer jumped stright up in the air and took off about 100 yards. After a TRUCK hit her.

[45 2.1]

Run out there and hit them up with some fluorescent orange paint first. :wink:

-ktw

I take it that you've never been prairie dog hunting. They won't let you "that" close to spray paint them. Maybe a paint ball gun would work..................................:mrgreen:

[NHlever]

Must be something wrong with your technique........... they let coyotes that close sometimes don't they? Or do they? Yup, I'm another eastener

[Doc_Stihl]

I got an idea for getting close to em.....Shoot em with a 45-70 first......:Fire: