Your opinion?

[Jim]

I work at a fast food restaurant. I showed up at 4:25 this AM and pulled in behind another lady that works there. We have to wait across the street until the mgr. shows up. The mgr. arrived, pulled up next to the other lady's car and spoke to her through the window. They both started across the street and I followed. I backed into my favorite slot and they pulled up in front of the east door with their vehicles still running and their lights on. I got out, crossed the parking lot and met them at the door. The mgr. said "y'all wait here a minute" , unlocked the door and went in. All this was very unusual so I asked the other lady "What's going on?" She said "The security co. called and said the alarm went off". I immediately went on point. There are three doors and she never looked at the other two. The mgr. returned, opened the door and said "Y'all come on in". The other lady said "Did you check the restrooms?" "No, hold on." She went back in, checked the restrooms, returned and said "OK, y'all come on in".

Then the mgr. told me "This is the proper procedure for this. Everybody pulls up in front of the door with their lights on while the mgr. checks everything out and then we all park our cars after everything is checked out".

I thought that was a d@mn foolish thing to do. If there realy was someone, possibly an armed robber, in the bldg., she could have gotten herself shot or taken hostage. I could have gotten shot in the process of him trying to escape. Remember, I am not allowed to carry at work, so I'm unarmed. If this happens again, I'm going back to my truck and wait behind it 'till it's all over. My life is worth more than $7 an hour.

Your opinion?

[briang]

I agree with you 100%, very stupid policy.

[SharpsShooter]

Jim,

Let them play the fool if they choose since they have a "no carry / I'll be a victim" policy. The MGR has not a clue about how to clear a building and that is unsafe for both the MGR and employees as a hidden intruder can create all sorts of danger. Better to let LEO's sweep the building if possible before entry.

Meanwhile,I'll sit in the truck too.


SS

[JW6108]

I can't figure why the security company would call the mgr., if that is how it went. Around here, the alarm co. calls 911, LE shows up, is let in by keyholder, and does the clearing.

If it was me, I might like to have a look at that "procedure" in writing.

[Stick_man]

I'll agree as well that the policy is insane. Also, if the "intruder" is still inside, aside from the ability to cause all kinds of headaches there, there is a nice getaway car waiting for him just outside of the door. Chances are, the engine is running as well so the battery doesn't die with the lights on.

[klcarroll]

If someone asked me to walk into a possibly "hostile" building with nothing in my pockets but my putz; .......I would strongly suggest a "re-think"!!!

If they still insisted, .......I would wish them well, and go sit in my truck! I have "walked point" too many times to not understand the risks involved!

Kent

[sundog]

Worker bees don't get paid enough for room clearing ops unless they are military or cops (and even they don't get paid enough), in a combat zone, have a loaded automatic weapon (grenades, etc) and know how to operate it with a team, and rools of engagement allow not only self defense but neutralization of threat. IOW, let the manager do his/her thang. YOU are under no obligation.

[.357]

wow that is 100% stupid. I'm glad no one was hurt.

[9.3X62AL]

What Sundog (and others) said.

After seeing how generally useless that much of the security video arrangements are in most retail establishments, it became obvious to me that security wonks are NOT very concerned with either employee safety or the gathering of evidence for criminal trials. No, what those videos are best at is surveilling employee activities to monitor cash skimming--gather evidence (or the lack thereof) for worker's comp claims--and to monitor/document employee work effort/output. Invariably, facial details of a robber are out of focus, while the open cash drawer is PERFECTLY CLEAR.

Sorry for the reality check, but most retailers don't give a rip about employee safety or crime prevention/dissuasion. It's all about relative cash loss size--and to the corporate world, a $30 till-tap is MUCH worse than a $30 robbery loss.

[sundog]

btw, it's the lousy punk that get's a stoopid lucky break on his part that gets you hurt. Ain't worth it. And do you think that company you work for (or their insurance company) is gonna take care of you the rest of your life if you get hurt and can no longer fend for yourself and your family?

[Larry Gibson]

It is still a free country (I know, I know, let me rephrase that; It's still the freeist country in the world) and you still have some choices. First is you don't have to work there, you can quit and perhaps get another job somewhere else. If your economic situations preclude that then you still have choices. If you have a CCW then you have the right to carry and then leave the gun in your vehicle while at work. Then while sitting in your vehicle under such circumstances you can still defend yourself. I would caution against being proactive (such as assisting in the search or even standing outside of your car on company peroperty with the CCW) with the CCW under such circumstances and would advise staying in the car and only defending yourself. Another choice is to attempt to reason or educate the manager on proper or at least alternate proceddures that may be safer though I doubt she would listen. And of course you have the choice to just go along with it as is and hope for the best. Your choice boils down to whether you choose to be a victim or not.

Larry Gibson

[Trey45]

I would have stayed in my truck, pistol in my lap, safety on.

[montana_charlie]

Next time (after a convesation between the manager and 'somebody' that isn't you) you see folks pull up at the front door with the headlights on...that is your cue to stay in your truck. If you were needed in the 'headlight line', you would have received instructions...like the other lady did.

Maybe those two women are bulletproof, immortal, or kung-fu masters who can dodge bullets.
If your presence isn't requested...don't make yourself a target.

CM

[shdwlkr]

I can't believe how totally stupid that Mgr was or did she/he think they were more and better trained than a LEO. I would not have gone near the place without a LEO walk through. We have MS13 to deal with out here and they play for keeps.
I would have stayed in my truck and out of sight and waited for the LEO's to do their job. What kind of security calls the manager and not the LEO's?
I don't care what you are being paid you only get one life and to play stupid just doesn't make sense. We just had a cashier get killed last saturday for no other reason than she was behind the cash register.

[Junior1942]

Why is a guy with your smarts working in a fast food joint for $7 an hour?

[HeavyMetal]

Here's the drill in LA: After two false alarms the "Man" charges you for showing up!

Here they bill the security company not the end user as the security company places the alarm call. It's up to the security company to re coup the fee from his customer! This is way the boss gets the call, and my boss has, and not the local LEO's.

In your case I would have a long talk with your manager about the one time the cat or mouse doesn't set off the motion sensors and she finds herself in a way tough spot.

Granted the "company" won't give an inch on security needs, it cuts into the bottom line, but she needs to be aware that her family won't get squat because she most likely signed off her right to sue ( the companies like to self "arbritrate" these settlements) when she accepted the "promotion" to manager.

If this doesn't wake her up you might inform her she can be glad she doesn't work with me because the next 4:30 AM "alarm" call might tempt me to do something stupid with a fire kracker!

[shdwlkr]

heavy metal
Only one firecracker? I would use at least 6 so she got the full effect of being stupid

[725]

Everybody above has the right take on the incredibly stupid policy that puts you at risk with no thought of likely consequences. Fast food pencil pushers (aside from those with other experiences in life) have no idea how to clear a building safely. Sadly, most LEO's don't do it very well either, but at least they have a radio, flashlight & a gun. Fodder for long discusions, I'm sure, but what about your liability IF you survive a confrontation with a bad guy? Your job description, I would assume, does not include suspect confrontation, arrest protocols, strength or pain control of an adversary, and on and on, .......... You step to the plate and punch some burglar out for non-compliance to your citizens arrest, under the color of being an employee of "BIG & BOUNCY BURGERS", and you could very easily find yourself in a law suit that you will lose. You stepped outside the job description of hamburger flipping and did stuff you never had training in. "BIG & BOUNCY BURGERS" will cut you loose to protect the corporate coffers. You'll be on your own. CCW permits are for your protection only, not a chance to become Magnum PI. Sit in the truck and give 911 a cell phone blow by blow of the suspect's escape.

[jhrosier]

Jim,
You are under no obligation to put yourself at risk to protect your employer's property or your supervisor's hide.
He might as well be asking you to go inside with a lit candle to check for gas leaks.
Drive away and circle the block until the cars are parked and the headlights are off.

Jack

[Jim]

Jr.,
I've got arthritis in my knees and elbows and can't fit or weld anymore. Besides, that's all there is to do in this one horse town.

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your responses and encouragement. I have no plans to participate in a Chuck Norris wannabe clearing. I'll leave that to Johhny Blue. He's got back up and a vest.

What really torqued me was her not telling me what she intended to do until AFTER the fact. And this woman's 62 years old, for cryin' out loud! Can you say stupid?

As for this job, believe you me, I'm lookin' regular. I'll find something decent and when I do, I'll ask her if she knows who Johhny Paycheck is.

[oldhickory]

Jim, the world's full of stupid people, just look what we have running the country![smilie=1:...And the people who put them there.:roll:

I forgot all about ole Johnny Paycheck till you mentioned him...Now I'm gonna have that song running through my head ALL day long! Oh well, best of luck and health to you and yours!:drinks:

[jhrosier]

Jr.,
I've got arthritis in my knees and elbows and can't fit or weld anymore. Besides, that's all there is to do in this one horse town.
.....

Jim,
I wasn't putting you down.
I suggest that you do some research and find out what your legal rights are as an employee. They can't be allowed to force you in to danger by threatening the loss of your job, even in a one horse town.
Good luck,
Jack

[armyrat1970]

Plain and simple. The alarm went off. LEO's should have been there and not allowed anyone to enter the building until they made a full search. If that did not happen, I would change security companies.
If the manager knew the alarm went off and wants to go in on their own before LEO's you either say okay I'll wait in my car or you give a back-up.

[BD]

I think that's a perfect policy, For the burglar! What more could a B&E guy ask for after an alarm goes off? A willing hostage with the keys to the safe, and choice of get away cars!

BD

[softpoint]

My wife used to work at a bookstore warehouse and central office. Occasionally a sparrow would get in the place and set the alarm off. Sometimes the security company would call my wife to let her know the alarm had been tripped. If it was during the day on the weekend, sometimes my wife would go reset the alarm. She would sit outside in the car for at least 10 minutes, so, hopefully, if there was an intruder, he would have time to leave. Also had Rem 870 Marine on her lap while she was waiting. Was'nt in a high crime area, or I would'nt have let her go at all. And she did'nt go at night. Sometimes buisiness places do have the security people notify a manager, or employee first, and let that employee decide whether to 911 or not. Depends on the buisiness, whats in it, where it's at. My wife would also drive by the front door (she could see it from the street) and make sure it hadn't been broken open before she would park and wait. Sparrows don't jimmy the door open!:coffee:

[Rick N Bama]

I'm on the call list for my daughter's business & sometimes get called if the alarm goes off & they can't contact her. Every time I've been called, the police have met me there & they always go in to check things out while another officer waits outside with me until they make sure everything is OK. Only then do I & the other officer go in.

I would never be the first to enter even though there's no sign of any problem.

Better safe than dead anyday!

Rick

[Jim]

Jim,
I wasn't putting you down.
I suggest that you do some research and find out what your legal rights are as an employee. They can't be allowed to force you in to danger by threatening the loss of your job, even in a one horse town.
Good luck,
Jack

No problem & no explanation or apology required. All is well with me & thee.

As for doing some research, oh, I did that alright! I've got an appointment for an interview for another job this afternoon!

I might be gettin' old an' rickety, but ain't nothin' wrong with the hard drive!:bigsmyl2:

[nicholst55]

I agree totally; the company's policy is potentially fatal for their employees. Simply decline to participate. Hopefully they will rethink their deeply flawed policy before someone is killed.

Having participated in more than one building clearing with the Military Police while pulling Staff Duty NCO, I put little faith in trusting very nearly anyone with my or my family's safety. Well, maybe Delta Force or the Navy SEALs! On more than one occasion when I was compelled to participate, I (the mechanic, not an MP) was the only one who had the foresight to bring along a flashlight!

[cajun shooter]

Jim, Back when I was a LOW PAID COP AND WORKING AS THE RANGE OFFICER, I would tell all my rookies that if someone called my home and said ;David you are going to be in a gun fight today. I would not leave home!! And that was with me carrying a gun. These corporate bosses have never had there butts in a tight spot nor do they think about the employees. I would find a different job and wish that nothing ever happens to your former working pards.

[windrider919]

A lady friend of mine runs a community health & dental clinic here in Alvin. They store no medicine or drugs there and every door has a sign saying so. They still get broken into a couple of times a year. But they also get a false alarm about once a month. No one knows why, if they did they would sure fix it. So the alarm co calls her or the next designated (which is sometimes me). Why? Because the PD charges a couple of hundred dollars for each alarm call response. They are automatically notified along with her but they do not respond till she calls and says come. Pretty obvious that if she was taken by burgler she could not call but everyone else doesn't see that. The clinic is operated by local donations and they don't have the money to pay $200.00 a month for false alarms.
By the way, the above policy is also used by the Houston police department unless the store pays an additional fee. Sort of insurance to prepay to respond. Another friend (in Houston) has a carpet store and he pays $230.00 a year response fee.

It actually makes a strange sort of sense, I read in the Houston Chronicle that there are as many as 500 false alarms a night in Houston and the police department would be swamped responding to false alarms and could not do their other functions. Such functions as they are, my disgust that a significant percentage of the police act like SS wannabees [or Mafia Jrs] here locally is for another thread.

It all boils down to those who can pay get protection. Those who can't........

Remember, the Supreme court already decided (in the early '90s) the role of the police is not to protect the citizens. They decided that the role of the police is ONLY to enforce the law.

[Jim]

Jim, ..... I would find a different job and wish that nothing ever happens to your former working pards.

I have an interview tomorrow morning and I have a strange confidence about it. I expect I'll be out of this situation in short order.

[HeavyMetal]

Good Luck on the interview!

[leadman]

Jim, You should be proud that you are working, no matter the wage. Too many people in this country use any excuse they can to get on the govt. hand-outs.
Don't get me wrong, there are people that are getting the hand-outs that deserve them.
I was a Foreman for the City Of Phoenix and had several of my fellow workers that either were injured or just wore themselves out prematurely.

Good luck with your job interview. Until then, be the last one thru the door.

[Jim]

Well, I got the job, but the boss said there's not enough to do to keep me busy full time. That's OK, though. I'll look at it as beer money. In the mean time, I'm still going to continue my search for something a little better and a lot safer than dodging bullets from burglars flushed by 62 yr. old female fast food managers.:roll:

[shdwlkr]

Jim
I guess it is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. Glad to hear that you won't be doing anything stupid like waiting for the flushed baddies to come out and greet you.

[BOOM BOOM]

hi,
Naive & Stupid. The worse part of the is if you try to educate these types , they think you are a nut or weird.
Many people have the ostrich mentality, if they see a Lion, they stick their head in the sand. Now ,for them, the lion does not exist.
Oh well.

[Jim]

Some people only learn the hard way. If you stick your head in the sand on account of seeing a lion, you what that leaves for him to bite, right? Trust me, fellas, I'm lookin'.

[TAWILDCATT]

there have been cases where the BG broke in and waited for the first one in to hold as hostage and force the manager to get the money.
so I would think the best idea is to stay clear of the area till your positive its safe.
what we have the police for is to clear up the bodies.
what we pay the police for is a big wonder.they get paid whether they sit in the cars or sit in station.If you have to pay them to respond, they should only get payed when they are actually on a call.I dont know what the pay is around the country but I do know in Mass.$60/70,000 a yr and extra brings it to $120,000 for some.this is not bashing LEOS this is fact.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[shdwlkr]

We had four or five shootings here locally just this week and in areas my family and I travel when we go to the city.
MS13 is big here now and wonder just how much is drug fighting

[softpoint]

I was always told that the police bring the yellow tape and the chalk. Then try to find out who did it . And thats good, it's just kind'a late![smilie=1:

[shdwlkr]

softpoint
Here they also come by the truck load to a shooting. I am serious they come out in force like maybe 10-15 and sometimes even swat shows up. You don't want to be around watching when they show up as they are hard wired to react and sometimes forget that they are there to protect if you get my drift.