Shooting requirements - 1000-yard BP matches?

[Naphtali]

Where would I find rifle, cartridge, sight, and component regulations for 1000-yard matches. My shooting partner has joined a range near Missoula that has such a range, plus black powder only matches. I've never seen such competition. I want to make time to do so. I would prefer to have some idea how competitors do what they do before I watch.

[Don McDowell]

For the most part the only requirement is having a gun and load that can go the distance. However for the NRA matches at Raton, and the World Creedmore there are gun weight restrictions, and velocity requirements. Check with the NRA bpcr rules,for the particulars.
You'll also have to check with the powers that be at the Missoula range.
For the most part you'll need the best sights,and load you can come up with and nerves of iron and eye's like an eagle,all blended in with lots of trigger time to make a really good show at 1000yds. Many times loads and bullets that do well at 1-500 yds will leave you sitting with fliers all over the range at 1000.

[wills]

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/

[Naphtali]

There is no restriction pertaining to cartridge type, bullet diameter? Might I expect to see a competitor use a muzzleloading cap lock rifle, like a Rigby used at the first Creedmoor match? Would modern single-shot creations, such as Ruger's No.1, Dakota, etc. be usable? Or is competition limited to exposed hammer rifles only, non-optical sights only, [some] caliber/bore size limitation. Or are hammerless actions allowed, so long as they were created before [fill in the date], such as the Sharps-Borchardt or myriad British single-shot hammerless actions?

[Naphtali]

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/

I'm on it. Thanks.

[Don McDowell]

There is no restriction pertaining to cartridge type, bullet diameter? Might I expect to see a competitor use a muzzleloading cap lock rifle, like a Rigby used at the first Creedmoor match? Would modern single-shot creations, such as Ruger's No.1, Dakota, etc. be usable? Or is competition limited to exposed hammer rifles only, non-optical sights only, [some] caliber/bore size limitation. Or are hammerless actions allowed, so long as they were created before [fill in the date], such as the Sharps-Borchardt or myriad British single-shot hammerless actions?

Well like I said it will depend on the individual match and range. Most places will require 375 bore dia and larger. Most will require lead bullets with no gas checks. Some will allow smokeless, duplex , or bp subs, others won't. Some will allow the Rugers etc, others won't. Some will allow period scopes , some will allow them but not count them for the overall winners, and others don't care.
The long range rules at Raton have about elimated any of the 375 bores, and have put a real squeezin on the 40's, and a 45-70 needs to be steroided.
YOU need to varify the rules of the game at the place you going before leaving, as unless its an NRA sanctioned or World Creedmore qualification match there are no hard fast rules. But basically if you gear your gun and loads to fall in the NRA Raton guidelines you'll be good to go.

[RMulhern]

If you go with anything less than the .45/90 for 1000 yd. stuff....you may as well walk out behind the barn and 'choke ya chicken'!! Your effort would be better spent!!

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=Naphtali;598168]Might I expect to see a competitor use a muzzleloading cap lock rifle, like a Rigby used at the first Creedmoor match?QUOTE]

..............I have a Rigby clone and a P-H Whitworth repro.

http://www.fototime.com/79E8B23CAB84AC7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/103B7CD70CB7B7A/standard.jpg

The Rigby. I'd bet legitimate matches would be either or, and not have cartridge rifles and muzzle loaders on the line at the same time. I'm guessing but the LR match muzzle loaders require the shooter to stand to reload, etc. Plus there is a bit more of a rigamarole involved with the ML'ers vs cartridge rifles.

Mainly a cleaning issue. Some will clean to the breech, others not but there is generally generous snapping of caps and stuff going on.

As a rule most of the long range muzzle loaders are in fact muzzle loading 45-90's. Generally a 530 - 550 gr slug and 80-90 grs of powder get you what you're looking for.

Of prime importance besides working up a load (Once found, buy all that lot of BP you can afford!) is reading the wind. IIRC midrange trajectory is something like 75 ft above line of sight.

................Buckshot

[NickSS]

I have fired a couple of 1000 yard matches and one 1200 yard match with my 45-70. I had it loaded with 65 gr of FFG and a 535 gr postel bullet with a .030 fiber wad. The matches were fired under Canadian Rules which allow just about any rifle and up to 25% duplex charge of powder. However, I used straight black. The matches were fired prone without a rest but slings were allowed. I used a GI web sling looped arond my arm and barrel of my Shiloh Long Range Express rifle. I used a C Sharps long range sight and it had barely enough elevation for 1200 yards. As I recall i placed high but not in the top three at all of these matches so did not win a medal but they were fun. Once I got on target I had no trouble hitting the target. My 1200 yard target scored a 46 4 V out of a possible 50 10V. The Canadians use the old 5V target at that itme. The only problem I had was that the sight was so high that my cheak was no were near the stock. For the 1200 yard match I actually dug a hole in the bearm to put my rifle but in as my neck was not long enough to see through the sights with the rifle on my shoulder.

[runnin lead]

FMP III
The Chicken Man won the Creedmore at Raton in 07 using a C. Sharps Lowwall 45-70

[runnin lead]

Buckshot
The Black Powder Target Rifle Nationals , Whittington Center ,Raton NM have a few muzzleloaders compeating right along side the cartridge rifles. Wouldn't that be a legitimate match ? I was in the pits pulling targets for one of them a few years ago, I was impressed !

[RMulhern]

FMP III
The Chicken Man won the Creedmore at Raton in 07 using a C. Sharps Lowwall 45-70

It's FAIRLY EASY to make a .45/70 shoot to .45/90 specs...with the right load and bullet and FAIRLY EASY to make a .45/90 shoot to .45/100 specs...in the same manner!!:drinks::castmine:

[Don McDowell]

I don't really think a 90 or 100 etal are that much more necessary than the good ol 45 2.1 at 1000. When you crunch the numbers the big boys lobbing the postell are only getting 32 fps more than the piddly 45-70 at 1000 yds.
Folks like Dennis Wiley shoot quite good scores at 1000 with the 70 and I myself have rang 7 out of 10 at a 1000 using ladder sights on one of my 45-70's.

Altho shooting the longer cases doesn't hurt (except your shoulder and collarbone, pocketbook from buying the extra powder) there's sure nuff nothing wrong with them, but by and large folks with the common garden variety 45-70 can get along quite well.

[Gunlaker]

It's FAIRLY EASY to make a .45/70 shoot to .45/90 specs...with the right load and bullet and FAIRLY EASY to make a .45/90 shoot to .45/100 specs...in the same manner!!:drinks::castmine:

Hi,

I'm just getting into BPCR. I don't know a lot yet, but I hope to one day :-D

Are you talking about using duplex loads or going to a finer granulaton like FFFg?

Or maybe seating the bullet out and increasing the charge?

thanks,

Chris.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot
The Black Powder Target Rifle Nationals , Whittington Center ,Raton NM have a few muzzleloaders compeating right along side the cartridge rifles. Wouldn't that be a legitimate match ? I was in the pits pulling targets for one of them a few years ago, I was impressed !

..............Sure it would! :-) I wasn't aware of them. I just figured at a LR match the more sedate firing sequence of the muzzle loaders might have the cartridge guys foaming at the mouth, so it might have been a no, no! Nice to see they play well together.

..............Buckshot

[runnin lead]

Gunlaker
With the550 gr bullet that I am using I only load 62 gr Swiss 1 1/2 f for my 45-70 & 76 gr 45-90 .
Some mold makers have designs that for a heavy bullet will let you seat the bullet out further
before it touches the lands to allow for increased case capacity so that you can acheive a higher velocity from a heavy bullet

[RMulhern]

Hi,

I'm just getting into BPCR. I don't know a lot yet, but I hope to one day :-D

Are you talking about using duplex loads or going to a finer granulaton like FFFg?

Or maybe seating the bullet out and increasing the charge?

thanks,

Chris.

Gunlaker

Both! Some events duplexing is allowed. 3F will boost the velocity also and in addition certain bullets can be seated outward to allow more powder charge! I don't advocate using duplex however!:drinks::castmine:

[ResearchPress]

As a rule most of the long range muzzle loaders are in fact muzzle loading 45-90's. Generally a 530 - 550 gr slug and 80-90 grs of powder get you what you're looking for.

I think you'll find that as a rule the BPCR's are in fact breech loading versions of the earlier muzzle loaders.....!! :mrgreen:

Anyone interested in long range muzzle loading (http://www.lrml.org) might find my web site of interest.

Here in the UK we have a great match coming up in August for muzzle loaders; course of fire is 15 shots at each distance, 1000, 1100 and 1200 yards! Great fun.

The USA are hosting the 7th MLAIC (http://www.mlaic.org) World Long Range Championships at Camp Butner, North Carolina, in September.

David