ACCURACY SEARCH IN .308 Win.

[mpmarty]

Hi and please bare with me here for a few:

I've got a nice Savage short action synthetic stocked .308 that shoots military surplus stuff from South Africa, Portugal and Lake City into an inch at a hundred yards.

I'm using a 180gr cast 1R flat point gaschecked tumble lubed in LLA and dusted with motor mica sized 309.

I have no leading issues with the loads below.

1. 10grs Red dot 3 to 4 inch at a hundred
2. 13grs Unique same as #1
3. 28grs H414 shot #1 3" low shot #1 3" high shots 3,4,5,6 and 7 in a cloverleaf all within 3/4" from then on shots were all over the place in a four inch radius. Case necks were smoked bore was filthy after a dozen shots. No lead but sticky black carbon. After several dry patches the bore shines like new.

What the heck should I try next? I've shot pistol cast boolits for over fifty years but this is my first attempt to shoot cast in any rifle other than my 45/70 which just shoots them all without problems using Unique or even 700X in sub 1000fps loads

[bruce drake]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=54488

I had good success with 14gr of Unique over a 170gr Lyman 311291. Good luck. Its a great caliber to shoot lead in.

Bruce

[MtGun44]

Different lubes, different boolit designs, different diameters, different hardness.

I would suggest:
1) larger diam, try .310 or .311
2) different lube, Alox based NRA formula 50-50 is a good place to start, there are
many other good lubes, many not so good, too.
3) harder alloy or heat treat what you have

For low vel to med velocity, try 311413, 311291, 311041

You have tried about 6 variations, only 2.8 million left. ;-)

Bill

[Doc Highwall]

Yesterday at a bench rest match I shot my Remington 40X in .308 with SAECO #315 cast 30:1 with 20.5 grs of AA5744, I shot my smallest group of .305" for five shots. When I get a chance to take a picture of it I will post it.

[Ben]

Doc:

I'll have to try that load, I have the 315' and will give that one a try.

I shot this with my .308 Win. VZ-24 with stainless A&B , F-54 flutted barrel. Range was 50 yds., 5 shots.

Load was 17.5 grs. of old 2400 with CE Harris , Lee 155 gr. g/c , sized .310, WLR primer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IMG_1075.jpg

[lead Foot]

GEEEEEEEEEEE Ben & Doc we all have to bow and scape. The best I have ever done in my .308 is five in to .50 @ 100 meters.:roll:What is an equivalent to AA5744 I don't think I can get that here.
Lead foot;

[runfiverun]

that sticky black carbon is yer problem i bet you are using a petroleum product in your lube something like alox.
the flyers are lube purge flyers.
but you aren't purging th lube.

[Recluse]

Marty,

I'm a huge fan of LLA mixed with JPW, but in all honesty, I've had pure-D lousy luck with it in my long gun calibers--especially at higher velocities over 1800fps.

I use a lube of my own making, but likewise, Lars' lubes are not just hard to beat, they're impossible to beat. I'd pick up a couple of sticks of Carnauba Red and use that on all your boolits. That will eliminate one very important variable.

After that, I found with some of my long guns it was simply a matter of finding that particular gun's "sweet spot" in terms of how fast the barrel preferred the boolit to be pushed through it. When I found that magic combination of powder and boolit size/weight, the groups immediately began to shrink into something I didn't have to stuff under my jacket and slink out the back door of the range. [smilie=1:

I don't always limit myself to the published powder/load combinations, either. For instance, on a whim, I worked up a load using W748 for my .303 Enfield stuff. Previously I had been getting very good groups at 50yds with open sights. On a lark, I made up the W748 loads and was astounded. I took the targets out to 100 yards and still shot two groups that could be covered with a half-dollar.

And I'm NOT that good of a shot with that particular gun as I haven't shot it much. So I had a buddy shoot it who IS a great shot with open sights. He did even better.

I enjoy the journey probably more than I do the destination. Working up the loads and seeing how they do, for me, is the best part of the entire process.

:coffee:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I'll second that emotion Recluse and others, finding the sweet spot for your weapon and Boolit is rewarding , and the trial and error:holysheep.....as you say , part of the journey :cbpour: :redneck:

[oso]

Hey Marty, what boolit you using? GC 180 gr FP - guessing SAECO or RCBS? How well does the nose fit the bore? Does it drop in the muzzle or fit snugly?

[Cowboy5780]

I've got a Savage 308 that shoots thru the same hole at 100 yds it's nestled in Choate Sniper stock this is with the j-word bullets. I havent gotten around to trying cast yet but its on the agenda will post a target next time its cool enough to go shoot.

[Tom W.]

I have yet to use any type of pistol powder in a rifle. With the light loads of 2400, is some dacron needed as a filler, or do you just load and shoot?

[pdawg_shooter]

Try paper patching and loading up like a jacketed. Works for me.

[Ben]

There are people who use and insist on a filler.

I don't use a filler .

Ben

[mpmarty]

Hey Marty, what boolit you using? GC 180 gr FP - guessing SAECO or RCBS? How well does the nose fit the bore? Does it drop in the muzzle or fit snugly?
Nose is a very snug fit in the muzzle. Alloy is somewhat soft and using the Lee book on pressure the 28grs of H414 is supposed to be at about ninety percent of the "ultimate tensile strength" of the boolit. As there is no lead left in the bore whatsoever perhaps it is incomplete combustion of the H414 causing the crud buildup. I'm going to load some Unique and start at around nine grains and work up to fifteen in one grain increments and see what I get. I can add some monotype to the alloy to stiffen it up but inasmuch as leading isn't an issue yet that will probably wait until I go in search of more velocity. I don't have any molds for .300 diameter boolits so paper patching isn't an immediate option. Thanks all for your input.

[Irascible]

I like 4759 in the 308. Bulky and fills the case nicely. 25gr will give you just under 1900 and you can load up or down from there. Std rifle primer, the milder the better. I use Fed 210m.

[Doc Highwall]

Here is the picture that I promised:drinks:. If you look up my post about modifying a RCBS powder measure you will see pictures of the SAECO #315 boolit with the rifling marks on the nose. After that picture I seated the boolit .050" farther into the rifling for a OAL of 2.800"

[RU shooter]

Here is the picture that I promised:drinks:. If you look up my post about modifying a RCBS powder measure you will see pictures of the SAECO #315 boolit with the rifling marks on the nose. After that picture I seated the boolit .050" farther into the rifling for a OAL of 2.800" Exceptional! That is something for all of us to strive for.

Tim

[sundog]

Doc, that's been my best powder in .308 (5744) so far with the RCBS 30-180-SP. Nice round 10-round groups @ 100 yards in about the 2" range, repeatable. Tried other powders, but this one seems to have more promise. Just haven't had time to play with it very much.

[Larry Gibson]

2400, 4227, 4198, 4759 and 5744 are all capable of very good accuracy in the .308W and most other standard rifle cartridges as well with cast bullets in the 1500-1700 fps range. With some bullet weights a filler (I prefer dacron) does help with consistancy of ignition. Generally in the .308W with bullets of 170+ gr a filler is not necessary for consistant ignition. However, if you are seeking accuacy at a higher velocity the a medium and or slow burning powder is better. Those generally do give better ignition with a filler with velocities in the 1800 to 2200 fps range. If your .308W has a 10" twist then best accuracy will be had under 1950 fps. With a 12" twist you can push that into the 2200-2300 fps range. If you decide on the higher velocity for either twist then a better lube than LLA is called for.

Larry Gibson

[Doc Highwall]

sundog, I am still playing with it. I plan on shooting it at 300 yards and playing with both the powder charge and the seating depth. My goal is 1.5" or less at 300yards, then out to 600 yards.

[1Shirt]

I like Larry's list of powders in priority sequence. I have that rifle, and the 180 lee or one of the 190's from Lyman at .311 in it over 20 gr. of 2400 will stay around an inch in my rifle when I do my share.:coffee:
1Shirt!:coffee:

[HORNET]

I tend to agree with MTGun44 on this one. Try sizing to .310 if it casts large enough and try a different lube. My results with LLA have been less than stellar for accuracy. It does sound like that H414 is a little too slow for this application and a little faster powder might give more consistant ignition. Maybe a hotter primer or a dacron filler. You should probably try some other loads with the faster powders if you haven't already done so. Try going up and down a couple of grains in 0.5 grain steps. You might be just off a sweet spot.....

[sundog]

Doc, me too, still playing with it (5744), but so far it's looking very good. I have access to a measured 300 yard range with a good bench. I'm thinking a HT or WQ boolit (got both ready to load) will improve things to get the velocity up a bit with a 12 twist. Just got get out there and "get'er done". It was WAY over 100dF today, ambient, with humdidity, closer to 106 - like really HOT out in the sun, too. Shade is good. High power on Saturday is gonna be a stellar b*tch!.

[smaj100]

I've got a Savage 308 that shoots thru the same hole at 100 yds it's nestled in Choate Sniper stock this is with the j-word bullets. I havent gotten around to trying cast yet but its on the agenda will post a target next time its cool enough to go shoot.

I got to go to the range last weekend and blasted some newly cast lead down range from my savage 308. I was very impressed with 5+ rnds in 1 big jagged hole, after adjusting the scope at 100yrds. I wanna try a little longer range if this dang heat will give it a rest. I had no leading the barrel.

I was using 160gr Lee TL over 28.5gr of 4895. I tumble lube with LLA followed by dipping the finished product in JPW these babies had GC's installed. I think all this together was a little overkill to prevent leading but I would rather do a little more on the pre trigger pull, than clean my gun for hours afterwords.

:castmine::coffee:

[Dollar Bill]

Nose is a very snug fit in the muzzle. Alloy is somewhat soft and using the Lee book on pressure the 28grs of H414 is supposed to be at about ninety percent of the "ultimate tensile strength" of the boolit. As there is no lead left in the bore whatsoever perhaps it is incomplete combustion of the H414 causing the crud buildup. I'm going to load some Unique and start at around nine grains and work up to fifteen in one grain increments and see what I get. I can add some monotype to the alloy to stiffen it up but inasmuch as leading isn't an issue yet that will probably wait until I go in search of more velocity. I don't have any molds for .300 diameter boolits so paper patching isn't an immediate option. Thanks all for your input.

Marty, your alloy should be fine. a"very snug fit on the nose" is right where you want to be. 414 is way to slow for cast bullet cartidges in .30. Unique will work but usually doesn't yield best accuracy. Something in the range of 2400, 4227, 5744, up to 4198 is the range you want to be in for best accuracy. Varget is about the slowest powder I'd use, to get good velocity and still retain decent accuracy. I know others have gotten other combinations to work, but these are consistant performers.

[Doc Highwall]

sundog, my Remington 40x has a 1:10" twist and my alloy is 30:1, Hornady gas checks annealed, with BullShops NASA lube seated to a OAL 2.800". I used 20.5 grains of AA5744.

[mpmarty]

At the range today with fifty rounds of cast boolits all loaded with 2400 and from 14 to 18 grains each. The boolits are the 180gr 1r flat nose (small meplat) but this batch are gas checked and lubed / sized in my Star at .310

the 14, 15 and 16 grain loads went into 2 1/2" at a hundred yards.

The first five 17 grain loads cut a single hole in the target. I quit and went up to 18 grains

The first five rounds of 18 gr made about a 2" group with vertical stringing and about an inch of windage dispersal.

Went back to the rest of the 17 grain loads and proceeded to create a ten round group of about an inch!

I'm loading more of these for next week at the range.