Puzzled - fairly typical for me :)

[RoyRogers]

For all you wizards of the leaded projectile - HELP!

I'm getting frustrated & need advice. I have been a member here for awhile but just a 'toe dipper' type. I don't cast but would like to but too many other irons in the fire at this point in my life. That said, I do want to shoot cast boolits and in my typical leap before asking fashion bought a bunch of laser cast boolits thinking I could make do with them till some future date when I might take up casting. Long story short, I've tried several things to make them shoot without depositing a serious layer of lead in my 30-30 but nothing thus far has worked. They mic at .310. My Winchester barrel mics at .308. Thinking loading them into a .307 sized case neck was causing my problems I bought a .310 expander plug & m die. I flare the case neck after sizing to .310 & the boolits can then be hand seated. I used a Lee factory crimp die to crimp in the lead groove and thought problem solved. Went back to range with bore 100% lead / copper free (outers foul out system). After 20rds the bore is leaded even worse than before! Load was 170gr laser cast, new ww brass, 9.2gr unique. Before my buying the larger expander ball the leading seemed mostly concentrated near the throat area. Now it is more evenly distributed down the bore but still somewhat thicker near the throat. The barrel looks nice and smooth so I don't think it is a rough bore issue. Do I need to seat the boolits so they touch the lands? Thanks for reading - all help appreciated!

[docone31]

I would size them to .311, and pan lube.
That is why I went to paper patching my .30s, and I haven't gone back!
Full tilt loads with paper.

[snaggdit]

If you have a bullet puller, pull one to make sure the FCD is not sizing the boolit down. I assume these have gas checks and came pre-lubed. You could always try tumble lubing with a light coat of LLA. You could always heat them to 200* and melt out the old lube and pan lube with a better lube but this is a lot of extra work. If I understand you, these were bought and came .310. That makes sizing to .311 out of the question. With the bore (again I assume you slugged it to find this measurement) .308 you should be OK.

[Bret4207]

My sole experience with Lazercast resulted in the same thing you're getting. You could try additional lube. Maybe cut the charge a bit too. These are GC'd? If you're groves are .308 and these mic .310 in theory they should be capable of adequate accuracy, minute of soda can at least. It could be the lube, it could be your barrel, is it surgically clean prior to trying cast? I doubt a good old 94 Winchester would be imcapable of handling cast.

My opinion of Lazercast is about as flattering as my opinion of Chucky Schumer.

[Leftoverdj]

Try a coat of Lee's Liquid Alox on them. It's the cheapest simplest approach.

Your real problem is that those bullets are way too hard. Because they are plain based, you can't increase the pressure to match the hardness of the bullet without creating another set of problems.

From my standpoint, you are doing everything right, it's the bullets that are wrong.

[RoyRogers]

The LC bullets are advertised as being capable of jacketed speeds with no leading. Is it possible I'm driving them to slow? The base on these looks like they were designed to accept a gas check. Should I buy checks and a tool to seat them? I wanted to shoot cast to save money but it looks like I went in the wrong direction. Yes the barrel was surgically clean and the bullets are still .310 after seating in the .310 sized neck.

[Leftoverdj]

The LC bullets are advertised as being capable of jacketed speeds with no leading. Is it possible I'm driving them to slow? The base on these looks like they were designed to accept a gas check. Should I buy checks and a tool to seat them? I wanted to shoot cast to save money but it looks like I went in the wrong direction. Yes the barrel was surgically clean and the bullets are still .310 after seating in the .310 sized neck.

You should learn not to believe advertisments.

[RoyRogers]

You should learn not to believe advertisments.

I keep telling myself that. Maybe one day I'll learn to listen. :confused: [smilie=1: :roll:

[runfiverun]

if it's the 165 rnfp i am tthinking of they have a bevel base and the nose is waaaay too small.
the boolit isn't causing your leadin its the bevel base and the nose.
just go back to the regular 308 sizer and try different powders to glide the boolit down the bbl not push at it and let it go.
you could also try running a wet patch down the bbl coated in caster oil before you shoot and every 10 or so shots.

[JIMinPHX]

Gas checks make all the difference in the world. They are 90% likely to solve your problem.

That aside, leading by the throat usually means that you had a poor gas seal. That is often a boolit diameter or hardness problem. As another already suggested, pulling a boolit out of one of your finished cartridges to measure it's actual size as it goes into the chamber would be a good idea.

Leading all the way down the barrel is usually a lubrication problem. The previous suggestion to try some Lee Liquid Alox would be a cheap & easy way to put a pin in that possibility.

Seating out to touch the lands will probably give you better accuracy, but I'm not sure that it will improve your leading situation.

I had good results from 8 grains of unique with a gas check & some moly lube in my 30-30 for 150-grain 1300ish fps plinkers. I used RE-7 for the faster loads. None of my 30-30 ammo leads the bore at all.

[44man]

Bret and a few others said it right.
Lazercast are hard and you should not expand the brass that much, keep them tight. Get rid of the fast powder and slow the boolits entrance into the rifling with a slow powder. You might be better off removing the lube they use and put Felix lube or another softer lube on them.
There is something wrong with the alloy they use and my experience with them also was bad and I am happy I only had a free sample.

[anachronism]

Try a standard pressure load for your 30/30, perhaps using something like IMR4198, or H322 or something is that burning rate. I think your bullets need a healthy boot in the butt to seal because they're too hard. Also make sure you don't seat them so the base of the bullet is below the case neck. You might have an oversized throat, which won't help you at all, but I suspect a stiffer load, with a powder intended for your caliber might clear things up.

[Bret4207]

Are these the ones mentioned? PB and a BEVEL BASE at that? If the nose is also undersize save them to melt down later and get some real boolits.

[HeavyMetal]

Post a Picture if you can, boolit and boolit base.

Also "mike" the nose area. Yes if they are to hard you may be using the wrong powder. I also doubt they sold you a GC boolit without the gascheck but that's why I asked for a pic if possible.

[RoyRogers]

http://media.midwayusa.com/highres/116346.jpg

Here is a link to a photo on Midway's web site. I have both 170 & 165gr versions. Both are made the same. The nose just above the front band is .295". All the bands measure .310. The bullet will drop right into a .30 cal muzzle all the way down to the front band - tried it on a couple of rifles. The lube in mine does not look that filled out and is more clear than colored.

Sure looks like the base was made for a gas check - don't know why they didn't install them??

[snaggdit]

Yep, that's not a bevel base. It is crying out for a gas check. Get a Lee .311 push through sizer and a box of 30 cal gas checks. I'm sure that is where your leading is coming from. The pressure is just pushing past the boolit.

[runfiverun]

that is definately the g/c version.
lasercast does sell them without g/c's
if they didn't they'd probably want 100.00 a box.
even with g/c's with a nose that small they may still not shoot well.

[geargnasher]

A friend of mine is borrowing my only .30 cal mould and all my boolits are loaded, but I'll send you a couple dozen to try with a decent alloy and lube if you want when I get it back.

Maybe someone here has some samples on hand you could try.

I wouldn't mess much more with those lasercast thingies, but if you must throw good money after bad try what has been mentioned by doing a full LLA treatment, gas check them, size to .310-.309" LLA again, and try a slower powder, maybe even a rifle powder. Don't wipe the LLA off the ogives, let it remain to coat the leade where the lands begin their engraving process.

My experiences with storebought boolits have all been bad: They are way too hard and the lubes are way too hard, both factors of being made to survive shipping to your door loose in a box. They lead barrels and the accuracy is usually terrible.

OR......... if you have one of those nice lead remover setups, just use it until you have time to cast for yourself!

Gear

[Bret4207]

Amazing. They sell a sized boolit without the GC. Wow. That's kind of like doing a brake job and not installing the pads. I wonder what their reasoning could be?

Either get a sizer, .310 or better .311, and some 30 cal GC's. and apply the checks or save them for alloy and get some better boolits.

[odoh]

Frequently when there is a production adnormally, a decision must be made on whether to remedy or sell for salvage/scrap value. Generally, the decision is based on $$s.

Ideally, the seller will describe the sell as for content and NOT market it for primary use for which it obviously comes up short. We see it on ebay and even the DoD acquisitons. Just recently seen a couple of lots of cast boolits on ebay from a com'l caster that repeatedly indicated not for shooting w/o re casting first.

[RoyRogers]

Thanks to all for the wisdom offered -

I'm sick & tired of cleaning lead from my winnie's bore so I guess I'll park my lead problem in a corner - maybe one day I'll get around to casting my own and dump them in a melt pot. Now I just need to find a good pb boolit that my 94 likes. Suggestions welcome - as well as where to buy suggestions. Probably could have bought qute a few good boolits for what I spent on 2k of the lasers. Live & hopefully learn...[smilie=b:

[Blammer]

Lee push through sizer for $15, get some gator checks from me in 30 cal for $19 a thousand, and I bet your problem will be solved!

I had the exact same problem with some 41 cal boolits from midway! they needed a GC! the wouldn't hit the paper at 10 yds! Put the gas check on them and started drillin quarters the very next shots!

Get a brass chorboy and take some threads and put it on a mop on your cleaning rod, 3 strokes later all the lead will be gone.

[leadman]

And call Midway and tell them you want a refund on a defective product. The bullet was obviously made for a gas check and is missing that important part.
Be firm and they will probably come thru with a refund on the remaining bullets.

I checked Midway's web-site. They sell this bullet as you bought with no gas-check and also, for more money, with a gas-check. See if you can trade them in for the bullets with the gas-check.

[RoyRogers]

Blammer - thanks for the advice. I guess another $40 (counting some lube for the sizer) would be worth a shot. If they still lead terribly I guess I could at least say I'm not a quiter. How do I buy the gas checks from you?

As for returning them to Midway, I hate to say it but I've had these about a year & just now got around to trying them out. Don't know if they'd take 'em back & I'd hate to even ask after all this time.

[runfiverun]

there is a new section above the swappin and sellin section you can find dj's gas checks there

[Firebricker]

Roy R, Like gearnasher suggested if you would like to try another boolit I can send you enough to load a coulple boxes up. I have 311041 173gr fp cast from quenched WW gas checked and sized 309 lubed with LBT blue. If you want to give that a try PM me your
adress and I'll throw em the mail. FB

[Wayne Smith]

If you want a regular source of good boolits go to the bottom of the page and click on The Bullshop. Tell him what you want and you will have a boolit that will shoot given the information you already have.

[RoyRogers]

If you want a regular source of good boolits go to the bottom of the page and click on The Bullshop. Tell him what you want and you will have a boolit that will shoot given the information you already have.

Seems the Bullshop is 'on leave' thru October. Thanks anyway...