38 Special Wadcutter Info

[rick983]

I just picked up a nice Dan Wesson 357 and would like to try some 148 gr. wadcutters. I have Titegroup powder that I have had success with in other calibers and would like to use that. I will be using commercially cast/swaged 148 gr. HBWC lead bullets. Should I seat these flush with the case mouth? Also, with wadcutters, is there a true front and rear? Can they be loaded either way. I read somewhere that one end will be a smaller diameter to aid in seating. These questions probably sound silly to a seasoned reloader. Thanks in advance. :-?

[Maven]

"Should I seat these flush with the case mouth? Also, with wadcutters, is there a true front and rear? Can they be loaded either way. I read somewhere that one end will be a smaller diameter...."

Rick983, I've used both Remington & Winchester HBWC's in my .357mags. (one's a DW), but never seated them flush with the case mouth. Such bullets can be devastating on small game when seated with the HB out. As for solid, non-bevel base WC's, it pays to experiment with their orientation since seating them normally may yield only so-so results. E.g., the RCBS [flat] button-nosed WC, which I cast, shot pretty miserably from my S & W Mod. 10, my Ruger SBH and my DW. Figuring I had nothing to lose by seating them backwards, I tried it and was immediately rewarded with smaller groups, some as small as 1" (5 shots @ 25 yds. from a rest). Btw, I used
Alliant Bullseye or Hodgdon Clays in those cartridges so I can't help you with Titegroup.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've shot thousands of these at 25 metre Bullseye style shoots with great success seated to the mouth of the case. Light loads are all thats generally needed for reliable obturation, unlike solid base wadcutters which seem to need a slightly higher charge in my experience. These are great for target shooting as they punch the maximum sized for calibre, but extremely neat holes in the target, easy to see, easy to score.

If you are using 38 cases in the 357 chambers, I might try seating them out a little, but I get fine results in 38 cases, seated to the case mouth or the crimping groove, which is usually near the business end of the boolit.

The most accurate load I have ever fired in my 586 is the 38 Federal HBWC, I wish I could duplictae that one, bit I can't quiet match it, even weighing the powder, etc :(

[Jack Stanley]

I use a H&G double ended wadcutter and normally I seat it flush with the end of the case . At times Ive tried seating it with the sprue forward or back and it depends on the individual gun whether it works well or not .

Once upon a time I was fooling with a three fifty-seven chambered gun and used magnum cases to get the bullet closer to the throat . Then the bullet was sized so it would just fit into the throats without forcing them . The front of the bullet was just shy of the cylinder face and a slight taper or profile crimp would secure it . Of course the powder charge has to be increased to make the velocity you want to work with . I would find accuracy with that setup between seven and eight hundred feet per second .

I haven't used hollow based slugs in a very long time , I don't remember much of what I learned with them .

Jack

[Larry Gibson]

Obviously with HBWCs there is a front and rear for target use, the HB is the rear. Most cast WCs have a front and a rear, usually the sprue end is the rear. DEWCs (Double End WCs) are identical at both ends and may be loaded either way as there is no front or rear. Regular swaged WCs have a slightly shaped "nose" and a flat base at the rear.

I've loaded loats of commercial swaged WCs (PPC & TRC competition) of both HB and DEWC types. I found through testing with a Ransom Rest at 50 yards that most often the HB WC is a tudge more accurate in most revolvers. The HBWC does require more care in loading (to ensure the skirt is not damaged) to achieve the slight edge in accuracy. Many do not find the edge in accuracy benificial enough and are satisfied with regular swaged WCs either regular (which require orientation when seating) or the DEWC.

I also found no difference in accuracy with target loads (most often the standard 2.7 gr of Bullseye or 231) between seating the WCs flush or out to as far as the first canelure groove. I also used a mild taper crimp.

Maven is correct about the devestaning effect a HBWC loaded backwards can have, both in .38 Special and .32 SWL. Even a regualr Target WC load kills all out of proportion to it's velocity. The full caliber meplat is no doubt the reason with perhaps the accuracy potential from such light recoiling loads contributes also as bullet placement is paramount.

Larry Gibson

[mooman76]

I don't think you realized but the HB in the HBWC stands for hollow base and it is designed to go to the rear. Like Mavin said you can experiment and reverse it. WCs by design don't usually make that much difference which way is forward and some are in fact designed the same to go either way. Usually there is a smal button on the front meant to face forward. Mine that I cast (Lee)has a flat base and button that faces forward. I have shot them loaded both directions with no noticeable difference. I like to set mine out abit, just above flush. No particular reason. I just like it that way. I don't think you will find much difference either way.

[Char-Gar]

Swaged HBWC bullets are "special needs" needs bullets. They are longer for their weight than others bullets and with the regular expanding plug the bullet skirt can be crushed if deeply seated in the case.

Factory HBWC match ammo uses special cases with a much shorter web. RCBS sell a custom expanding plug for the HBWC that expandes the cases farther down so the skirt won't be crushed.

If you use the special long expander plug there is a chance some makes of cases won't chamber in some sixgun cylinders, so the match cases are the way to go.

To answer your original question, yes, it is best to seat the HBWC flush with the case mouth. But unless you are using the special long expander plug and match cases, you might hit a snag.

Solid bases WCs don't present these issues, but will be a tad less accurate. Also bear in mind if you push the HBWCs much faster than 800 fps, you are likely to blow off a skirt leaving it in the barrel as an obstruction for the next round to hit.

The purpose of the HW is to move the weight forward and the bullet acts something like a shuttle cock with the inproved accuracy. Load them backward, they go splat when they hit, but are giant air scoops and shed velocity real fast. Solid base wadcutters can be pushed to 900 or so fps with excellent accuracy. However, all WC bullets loose their stability and accuracy goes South at distances much beyond 50 yards.

38 Special match loads with HBWCs bullets are wonderful loads for target, plinking and small game... BUT...they play by their own set of rules. They are like Red Haired women..if you don't understand them, best live them alone.

[2shot]

I use remington HBWC when shooting in my Bullseye league. I have found that in my experiance that I shoot them best when I,

#1; don't full lenght re-size (I don't re-size at all just de-prime)

#2; I seat the HBWC to just touch the throat of the cylinder (not flush)

#3; I shoot 2.5gr BE (short line, 25 yd) or 3.1gr. (long line50 yd)

The Remington HBWC's that I have measure around .363 to .368 at the skirt and IMO get sized down too much if the brass is full lenght re-sized. I get much better accuracy with out re-sizing, just de-cap and bell the case mouth slightly, seat and crimp lightly (taper crimp) on the 1st lube groove.

I have also found that with my revolvers that S&W perform better with the H&G #50 (solid WC) than the HBWC because of the 1-18 twist found in them ( the solid base are much shorter than the HBWC). In custom revolvers or Colt with a 1-14 twist the HBWC shoots great. Both of these statments are in reference to the above loads of BE. When I try to push the HBWC to good accuracy in the S&W's I'm to near the max load where the skirt may blow of so I tend not to shoot them in my Smiths for formal target shooting.

2shot

[jdgabbard]

I seat mine with about 3/16" outside the case. But mine are solids, hbwcs may take a little more to keep from crushing the skirt with the web of the case