bullet lube ?

[XWrench3]

so i see a lot on different concotions for bullet lubes. so what is wrong with just plain old grease? i suppose gooey grease might migrate, but what about hi-temp grease? as you can tell, i am a rookie. just looking for an explationation please. by the way, i shoot smokeless mostly. thanks.

[Trey45]

Not really answer here, just an observation.
If hi temp grease worked, don't you think people would be using it? That's got to tell you something right there.

[felix]

Viscosity at a certain temperature is the number one criteria, not the temperature breakdown of the lube. ... felix

[Frank]

If hi temp grease worked, don't you think people would be using it?
Nope. They all get their cud from the approved source. Take for instance Shooters Choice. All it is is GM Top Engine Cleaner put in a bottle, with the label, "For shooters". So if GMTEC is so great, don't you think people would be using it? Not a chance. The masses always go with the flow. But GM Top Engine cleaner is so much cheaper. [smilie=s:

[woodsie57]

As a fellow casting newbie, I too read alot about lubes, looking for the cheap, easy answer. Here it is - for the tumble lube pistol bullets at standard velocity, anyway. Johnsons Paste Wax.

[Trey45]

So Frank, are you saying Hi temp grease works or not?

By the way, you must be reading a different cast boolits forum than I do, I don't see the herd mentality here at all, if anything there's more innovation here than anything else. Masses may go with the flow on the cast boolit forum you read, not the cast boolit forum I read.

[357maximum]

Pure grease would give you three issues.

1. viscosity - mix some soft microcrystalline wax or beeswax with it to make it act stiffer to you, yet change it's flow properties to act like soap content/viscosity is lower when you pull trigger............bingo

2. handling problems - see above that addition will fix this also.

3. Pure grease is meant to migrate by design- see additives at #1....that fixes this issue also when it is balanced appropriately.

[Frank]

So Frank, are you saying Hi temp grease works or not?



No, I'm just answering your question. That people use something doesn't really say anything, to me at least. But I hear that phrase alot. Like at Midway when you buy something, it says "People who bought this, bought that." Maybe they just make that up, instead of more honestly saying, OUR SUGGESTION is you MIGHT want to consider this if you are buying that. Or a news article says, "People who read this, read this also." So what does that mean? It means people can be manipulated.

I would think Hi-temp would be nasty stuff to have all over the gun, my hands on the bench. I'd much prefer baby oil and ivory soap- Felix! :bigsmyl2:

[TAWILDCATT]

Frank you are refering to a lot of new reloaders.the old timers made there own.
its like lees tumble lube.it conveniant to use.even tho its rust preventive under coat.but who wants to buy 5 gallons.there are some who make their own melting furnaces.its easier to buy a turkey cooker.I make my on lube,but I am using Lees also.hopes no9 was the product to use but they changed it and it does not smell nice.and has 2 or 3 chem removed.
Have you any ideas that would be good to use.negative does not do it.

[Frank]

I did suggest an idea. Felix lube. And GM Top Engine Cleaner for the barrels. Two ideas.

[sqlbullet]

Everyone seems to be pickin' on Frank, but he is right. All it means when no one else is doing it is that no one else is doing it.

Even if they did try, that doesn't mean you shouldn't too. It does mean if you are wise you will learn why they aren't doing it before you try, so you don't make the same mistakes.

Props to the rookie for exercising wisdom and seeking knowledge. And props to Frank for pointing out that just because others don't do doesn't mean it can't be done, and maybe done well.

I would think grease would be very messy to deal with. And smell nasty. But if you have a revelation, please do tell.

[fredj338]

Everyone seems to be pickin' on Frank, but he is right. All it means when no one else is doing it is that no one else is doing it.

Even if they did try, that doesn't mean you shouldn't too. It does mean if you are wise you will learn why they aren't doing it before you try, so you don't make the same mistakes.

Props to the rookie for exercising wisdom and seeking knowledge. And props to Frank for pointing out that just because others don't do doesn't mean it can't be done, and maybe done well.

I would think grease would be very messy to deal with. And smell nasty. But if you have a revelation, please do tell.
Isn't there some issue w/ ptrolium based greases burning in the barrel?

[sqlbullet]

I have no idea. As a petroleum distillate I would think it would produce some nasty smoke for sure. LLA has very high distillates and it is smokey.

[runfiverun]

some petroleum products leave a residue in the bbl but it don't stop them from being used as a lube.
vaseline,alox, axle grease have all been mixed in lubes.
some petroleum products are overlooked as being so, like parafin and mcrocrystaline wax.
for pistol lube bout all you need is a lubricant a carrier and either a binder or preserver.
the rest is either more or less or a plasticizer for the wax. or to change the viscosity of the final product.

[XWrench3]

so, what is microcrystaline wax, and where can i buy it, under what name? also, if one componenet of the lube mix melts at a lower point than others, will that component start leaking out of the mix when it is subjected to temps above that point? iam thinking i would like to try to make my own lube. mostly becasue i LOVE to tinker. plus that way, if i am sucsessful, i get to add whatever components that i want in the mix, that it may be missing.

[sqlbullet]

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Block-Pure-White-Microcrystalline-Wax/dp/B000BPAGEO) carries it.

It is similar to paraffin wax, but has much smaller wax crystals. It is derived from refining petrolatum. wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcrystalline_wax)

[grouch]

I've used automotive greases to lube bullets for nearly 50 years. most of them compare favorably to the commercial lubes I've tried, but have to be applied by hand - not all that difficult or messy. Some are better than others. Right now, I use Canadian Tire Moly Grease, have also had good results with Esso Unirex and Gulf Barimol heavy.
To apply the grease, seat your bullet on the first driving band, apply grease to lube grooves, seat bullet to full depth and wipe off exposed grease.
It's easier than it sounds, but gives me good results and I can buy more molds because I don't need an expensive lubrisizer. Lee's push - through sizer does very well.

Note - they often don't work for Black Powder!

Grouch

[SciFiJim]

To apply the grease, seat your bullet on the first driving band, apply grease to lube grooves, seat bullet to full depth and wipe off exposed grease.

So that's how lubing by hand works. I currently tumble lube but wanted to try pan lubing and hand lubing. Hand lubing sounds easier than all the rest, just have a rag handy to wipe with.

[Leftoverdj]

Not really answer here, just an observation.
If hi temp grease worked, don't you think people would be using it? That's got to tell you something right there.

People have.

Main drawback is the messiness. We get around that by mixing equal amounts of beeswax with lithium based auto grease. It's one of the more popular homemade lubes.

[XWrench3]

it seems like bee's wax is in most every bullet lube formula. what is the most economical way of buying bee's wax? so far, the best price i can come up with is $5.00 a pound, for 25 pounds. i can not imagine ever using 25 pounds of the stuff though.

[mtgrs737]

QUOTE=XWrench3;598096]it seems like bee's wax is in most every bullet lube formula. what is the most economical way of buying bee's wax? so far, the best price i can come up with is $5.00 a pound, for 25 pounds. i can not imagine ever using 25 pounds of the stuff though.[/QUOTE]


Look up RandyRat here on this forum and send him a PM to get on his list for the next batch of beeswax he refines and sells.

[joeb33050]

so i see a lot on different concotions for bullet lubes. so what is wrong with just plain old grease? i suppose gooey grease might migrate, but what about hi-temp grease? as you can tell, i am a rookie. just looking for an explationation please. by the way, i shoot smokeless mostly. thanks.
Lithium grease works fine on rifle bullets. So does Moly grease. Messy, for me. Col Harrison mentioned it, I tried it and do so now and then. For Me, smokeless and LV.
joe b.

[Leftoverdj]

it seems like bee's wax is in most every bullet lube formula. what is the most economical way of buying bee's wax? so far, the best price i can come up with is $5.00 a pound, for 25 pounds. i can not imagine ever using 25 pounds of the stuff though.

http://www.thesage.com/catalog/FixedOil.html

Good folks and have everything you might want for making lube. Prices might look a bit high, but they are cheaper than running around looking for odd items.

[JDL]

Way back in the '70s, I used grease right out of my grease gun and IIRC it was lithium grease. I had a Longbranch .303 British that I was shooting with 4895, 1 grain of poly, a squirt of grease on top, and seated a checked, unlubed Lyman 311446. Never had a leading problem and accuracy was as good as an alox lubed boolit but, I never stored them for any length of time.
JDL

[jonk]

The principle of grease is quite good I think. It provides a film for the bullet to 'float' down the barrel, just like oil provides a film to get between the moving parts of an engine.

The negative is that it is messy, can contaminate powder, etc.

You mix it with wax- beeswax is good- and especially if you use a non-petroleum based grease- you have a good combo for handgun bullets. You could probably use it on rifles too, no problem.

Personally I stick to Felix lube or LLA for tumbling. (Though I got a dozen sticks of 50/50 for free and am using those up now). But no, no reason you can't use grease.

As a final point to this- in cold weather I use pure crisco vegetable shortening to lube my muzzleloader bullets. It turns liquid in the hot summer, so I switch to a beeswax/crisco/canola mix but works fine below 50 degrees.

[JSnover]

I think RandyRat sells beeswax. Send him a PM or check the swappin/sellin forum

[Dale53]

I like to shoot. I cast bullets and reload so I can afford to shoot (while I actually enjoy casting and reloading, that does NOT obscure the fact that I do it to shoot). I enjoy "using what works". So, I use Lars White Label lube as it works VERY well, and it is very reasonably priced. Others, before me, have worked the kinks out. I would rather spend time shooting than experimenting (I have mixed my own lube and it works just fine for both black powder and smokeless {two different lubes}. Because I use a proven product does not necessarily make me a sheep...

The most important thing about a good bullet lube is that it can drastically affect accuracy. Something that is slick does not necessarily make a good bullet lube. Read E.H. Harrison's work on bullet lubes (he came up with the original NRA 50/50 bullet lube). Anything slick can eliminate leading but accuracy is the real "grail".

XWrench3;
Twenty five pounds of beeswax IS a lot. However, find a friend, split it with him and learn that 12.5 lbs is only half as much:mrgreen:. Really, I am not kidding. When I find I have to buy a greater quantity than I can use I realize I may have a friend (or two) who is in the same fix. Cooperative purchasing is oftentimes the answer for all of you.

Dale53

[Jim_Fleming]

I'll betcha that you could unload what you don't need thru Group Buys... [smilie=1:



it seems like bee's wax is in most every bullet lube formula. what is the most economical way of buying bee's wax? so far, the best price i can come up with is $5.00 a pound, for 25 pounds. i can not imagine ever using 25 pounds of the stuff though.

[runfiverun]

all the wax and micro and even soy wax provides is a place with holes in it for the real lubricant/s to reside.
i know missionary while in peru used axle grease and beeswax for his leverguns as thats what he could find.
i have been looking for wax made from soybeans to mess around with.
lithium grease will work but you only need about 5-10% lithium content any more is not beneficial, stearates like in soap have a lubricating property as do castor oil, glycerin,lanolin etc.
castor oil is made from castor beans,glycerin from roses.
there is plenty of stuff that will work you just need to thnk about how to put it together.
i have been messing with a lube used in mechanical and hydraulic operated stops [ball valves]
but waaay big ones mixed with some old magma lube with b-wax and lithium grease to soften it up some.
so far it is doing well in 8" bbl'd handguns.