Let's design a .351 Paper Patch Boolit

[357maximum]

I am wanting to remove a few sizing steps from my paperpatch procedure. I am thinking if I had a .351 (30to1 or pure lead) boolit similar to the 358315 with a few mods life would be better.

My thinking:


very small meplate instead of the round nose, but keep the general shape. Weigh about 200-210 grains, and have shallow lee type tl grooves along it's bearing length...or multiple shallow/skinny grooves. The skinny grooves would allow use in some 348 bores as a greased boolit so that may be a better way to go.

For now this is just an exercise in "what if, and what to" but you never know where it may lead.


Any ideas, thoughts, help or brain farts are welcome here, but I would like to see it weigh in less than 220 grains.

[45 2.1]

I am wanting to remove a few sizing steps from my paperpatch procedure. I am thinking if I had a .351 (30to1 or pure lead) boolit similar to the 358315 with a few mods life would be better.

My thinking:


very small meplate instead of the round nose, but keep the general shape. Weigh about 200-210 grains, and have shallow lee type tl grooves along it's bearing length...or multiple shallow/skinny grooves. The skinny grooves would allow use in some 348 bores as a greased boolit so that may be a better way to go. Making grooves like the 8mm Plinker had will allow a plinking boolit for the 348 Win.

For now this is just an exercise in "what if, and what to" but you never know where it may lead.


Any ideas, thoughts, help or brain farts are welcome here, but I would like to see it weigh in less than 220 grains.

I'll draw one up for you, but I need the distance your useing from the mouth of the case to the end of the boolit nose and the diameter of the nose under where the lands engrave the patch on the 358318 along with where that distance is from the case mouth.

[357maximum]

I'll draw one up for you, but I need the distance your useing from the mouth of the case to the end of the boolit nose and the diameter of the nose under where the lands engrave the patch on the 358315 along with where that distance is from the case mouth.


35 remington (remington stamped) Trimmed at 1.921 (I ignore the books trim to length in some cases and let the gun have all the case I can consistantly provide it with when required/desired/able to

* I use reformed/trimmed 222Rem Mag brass in my 223 H&R for instance*


Overall length of loaded round= 2.4465

Distance from case mouth to tip of the 358315=.5175

Diameter under patch where lands start to engrave = .3451

Distance from casemouth to land engagement on patch= .1455


You should still have pounded throat slugs from this gun....I think?

[TREERAT]

If you get some one to make the .351 mold, I would also like to purchase one. let me know!

[windrider919]

I / we here in PP did design a bullet very much like you describe. I had the mould made and have found it is very accurate. The premise was that smokeless needed a slightly larger diameter than BP. So instead of .450 it is .453 to patch up .008 more to fit the chamber throat. I get no excess pressure and great accuracy. I do NOT size either the basic bullet or the patched bullet. That was the whole purpose of my trying to PP. Simplify reloading. The small grooves were to hold the patch on better than the smooth sided bullets used in BPCR. It appeared that with smokeless the patch was 'slipping' and not staying on bullet when fired. If I were to do it again I would have them made 1/2 the depth.

I will try to post the sketch:

[303Guy]

I have met this German Fellow who is a tool and die maker by trade who now has a small and well equipped workshop with all new machinery. (And there he was making a fancy wooden table - but he is happy and that's what counts!) Thing is, if he can justify his time he could make all sorts of fancy stuff for us reloaders and cast boolit nuts. He has Solid Works - which can read other CAD software. What do you folks think? My assessment of him is that he is a clever guy and likes to to a good job.

[303Guy]

It appeared that with smokeless the patch was 'slipping' and not staying on bullet when fired.I started out with this smooth, tapered boolit concept born out of the shape of my Lee Enfield chamber and the size of the fired case neck. Then I moved forward into the 19th centuary and discovered paper patching! So I just used the same basic form. What I have found is that the casting does not slip forward in the patch. This allows me to continue using nose pour push out molds. (Very convenient).

[windrider919]

What prompted the slipping theory was that the very smooth polished moulds (usually nose pour for BPCR) or smooth sided swaged bullets did not always shoot well using smokeless powder compared to the same bullets performance with BP. But bullets that had machining marks from home bored moulds DID seem to shoot better when using smokeless. And regular grease grooved [GG] cast bullets shot well too when sized correctly and patched to correct groove size. This led to numerous threads on whether bullets bump up and if they did was it more with BP than with smokeless. And the the theory was born that somehow the patch was held tighter by the 'rough sided bullet'.

Your pictures show tooling marks on some of your homeade moulds bullets so you might be having that advantage without knowing about it. And some of your other pic show you using GG bullets so there again it might be helping you.

I can say that when chambering, in MY rifle, the patch sometimes catches and pushes down on the smooth bullets. The tool marked bullets hold the patch better and do not push one side down as much or at all when the side of the bullet enters the chamber mouth and hits the edge.

So, theorys but no way to really prove them. what we do know is what worked for us. And I found I like it rough.

[303Guy]

That's good enough for me! Thanks for the info. Besides, it's a helluva lot easier to make a rough mould!:wink: (My very aesthetically pleasing boolit came about from before I progressed into the 19th centuary of paper patching!):mrgreen:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-745F.jpg

But hell, it looks good! It's a hollow point too. (Very shallow hollow).8-)

I was considering abandoning the push out mould for that reason but if a mould rough enough to hold the paper but not so rough as to hold the casting will work, then I am still in the running!:drinks:

I get the impression that rebated boolits are generally a good idea.

[windrider919]

It sure is pretty all smooth like that though. Sexy. and I always got a kick out of your gas check in place casting too. The main thing to remember is that your rifle might like something mine will not tolerate. Thats what is so exciting, solving each guns querks

[windrider919]

If you look up an old thread of mine called, if I remember: "how do you like my cherry?" or something like that I was going to have a cast, rebated boattail PP bullet. Go to the Corbin bullet swaging site and there is some info on rebated tails. Also, researching the numerous VLD (very low drag) sites shows that there is some basis to their being good. BUT. And this is the killer. Boattails only work at supersonic speed and have a nasty tendency to tumble when they slow down to subsonic. Flat based bullets, although not as good of BC (ballistic coefficient) have a turbulent drag behind the bullet that tends to keep it from tumbling.

So, where in the flight regime where your boolit is going to spend MOST of its time? When I really looked at cast bullet velocities using the ballistic drop programs that are free I realized that, even with PP, at most ranges beyond 100yds the bullet would be SUBsonic.

Additionally, to really take advantage of the boat tail the bullet NOSE must be 'pleasing', ie: pointed. Yet for two centuries shooters have been trying to make pointed cast bullets shoot accuratly. And failing. each new shooter is seduced to the dark side by the catalogs that show points like j-boolits have. I actually asked Mr. Lee on the phone one time why he kept those bad designs in stock. Reply, "Because people keep buying them. And when they find out they need a rounded nose then they buy another mould." Lyman and NEI and many other mould makers do the same thing. Anyway, bullet [nose] slump on firing is considered to be one of the most significant reasons why pointed unjacketed bullets are not accurate. Also, the harder jacketed bullet will shift a little to line up in the bore at firing, the softer lead does not, the bullet just swages cocked. So the larger dia. nose pushing up into the rifling / bore centers and aligns itself. The pointed bullet is just touching air.

About the best pointed nose today is the "Money" bullet design by one of the BPCR very long range Quigley shooters. Technically it is not pointed but is a slim round nose. The Postell nose is good too. But my rifle is a bolt action, not a single shot and the next round to shoot is in the magazine. I found that any too pointed of a round nose was slammed against the front wall of the magazine, blunting it and distorting the shape. Experimenting by keeping the same round in the magazine for multiple shots showed that the mushrooming damage would go so far then stop. So I added a small meplat to my bullet. Now when a round rests in the magazine and is bounced forward and back by recoil it does not distort because the nose is blunt enough to support itself and not mushroom. No, not as aerodynamic but the distorted, uneven mini-mushroom on the more pointed round nose was much less aerodynamic.

So, no matter how much I wanted to prove the tradition bound, old fogeys wrong they made me admit they knew what they were doing. At least about cast bullets, I don't admit to anything else. Because they had rebelled in their time and tried 'new' things and proved to themselves what worked and what did not. Now a new crop has to do the same thing. I have no doubt that it is locked into human nature.

So, what do you think? Hey, look at the solid VLD bullets. I shoot both them AND my custom lead PP.
First pic/left side: LM-101 solid copper, 2nd pic/center: LM-102 max VLD; 3rd /right side: GS hv HP solid; and last, the awsome Lehigh 458-100T VLD solid which is a 1 MOA in my .458 Win Mag

[303Guy]

Great pics!


... it is locked into human nature. Yup. We all have to pee on the electric fence for ourselves!:mrgreen:

I never figured on the nose getting damaged in the mag. Good point. I was planning on a shallow hollow point but now I will go for the simpler meplat. I figure I can get reasonable BC by having a somewhat long boolit. My first boolit was essencially a copy of the orignal 215gr Brit bullet. I didn't bother to fire that one - not enough nose support. I ended up with a 245gr torpedo with a very blunt nose shape. It didn't fit my rifle so I shortened it to 220gr and that one rested on the leade. At around 1900fps (it was plain with surface lube) it did this;

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg
Three shots donot make a 'group' but is an indication. Another four shots were fired onto a different target. They too printed real close together.

The loaded boolit
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-338F_edited.jpg

Now, compare that one to 357maximum's 35 Reminton boolit.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/35Rem.jpg

[RMulhern]

Any of you guys know what a 'knurling tool' is??

[303Guy]

Thanks! I never thought of it.:oops:

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[303Guy]

OK. I tried the knurling. Great! I did not do a control test but who cares! It worked, that's all that matters.:-D

But of course I could not resist trying something else out at the same time. smilie=1:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-105F.jpg

It's a spiral wound single wrap patch. (You can see where I got the idea from).:roll:

And here it is fired.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-106F.jpg

The patch stayed in place just fine and came off mostly at the muzzle. For very low powder charges, I am no longer worried about 'all of it coming off at the muzzle'. It will with a full charge.

See that curved line? That's from a human hair that got under the patch. Curious!

[windrider919]

So 357M, what do you think? We covered some ground about PP bullet design. What are your ideas now. Have we been any help? Any questions?

Also: To FPMIII - Yes I considered knurling but as I have stated, the reason I got into PP in the first place was to simplify. No sizing / lubing / gas checks, etc. Just cast and patch and load. That means no extra step of knurling either. But it was a good thought and I do knurl some of my other non-PP bullets to hold lube and bring the size up where they are cast too small (ex: .452 to .460 for my Ruger Old Army BP cap n ball).

[RMulhern]

So 357M, what do you think? We covered some ground about PP bullet design. What are your ideas now. Have we been any help? Any questions?

Also: To FPMIII - Yes I considered knurling but as I have stated, the reason I got into PP in the first place was to simplify. No sizing / lubing / gas checks, etc. Just cast and patch and load. That means no extra step of knurling either. But it was a good thought and I do knurl some of my other non-PP bullets to hold lube and bring the size up where they are cast too small (ex: .452 to .460 for my Ruger Old Army BP cap n ball).

KISS aka KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID....is a good foundation for shooting PP bullets but NOT the only reason! Probably there are two fundamental reasons that are really good for using PP; (1) no problem with 'leading' if done correctly and (2) an increase in aerodynamic performance because the bullet has nothing on it (grease grooves) to cut down on flight performance! You guys are traveling on a slightly different road than mine however as you're shooting smokeless powder...which cuts no skin off my nose I might add! However...with that being said, based upon my experience with shooting cast PP bullets and from others whom have worked with PP bullets for a long time....if one wants the BEST DEPENDABLE PERFORMANCE from my game, which is BPCR...the best way to go is with blackpowder! That 'dirty ole' blackpowder!! Not really difficult to clean however with a falling block single shot rifle! Matter of fact...I can clean a BPCR rifle after a session of shooting faster than others can clean a layer of copper that's been laid down in the bore of a SP rifle! That's pretty much a 'no-brainer' as I don't shoot anything that will give me a layer of copper!! I've read your postings and looked at your sampling of some groups fired and it appears you're doing quite well. Getting into the PP game can be difficult at first as a 'newbie' because at one time I didn't have a clue about what worked but over time after listening to some guys that had more experience with it than I did.....things finally started working quite well for me! Hang in there! God took 6 days to make the world!!:drinks::castmine:

[303Guy]

....if one wants the BEST DEPENDABLE PERFORMANCE from my game, which is BPCR...the best way to go is with blackpowder! I glance over at black powder from time to time. It's the "Holy Grail" of shooting! Maybe a 9.3x74 one day. But the old 303 Brit with a heavy PP boolit might just work too. Nothing wrong with black powder! (Specially since one can make it in the comfort of one's own kitchen!)[smilie=1:

[357maximum]

So 357M, what do you think? We covered some ground about PP bullet design. What are your ideas now. Have we been any help? Any questions?

Also: To FPMIII - Yes I considered knurling but as I have stated, the reason I got into PP in the first place was to simplify. No sizing / lubing / gas checks, etc. Just cast and patch and load. That means no extra step of knurling either. But it was a good thought and I do knurl some of my other non-PP bullets to hold lube and bring the size up where they are cast too small (ex: .452 to .460 for my Ruger Old Army BP cap n ball).

I am really waiting to see what 45 2.1 comes up with I spose. I have not had time to think about it much...lighning got me modem in chat fri night...so I have been fooling with that and then I had a Father's Day Weekend shoot/dinner to attend to.


I want this simple cast/patch/load shoot...that is the whole point of this exercise. General consensus says that small grooves work better with smokeless, and in ths case it would also allow a plinker type boolit for the 348 folks.


Stay tuned

[windrider919]

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post describing 'my' Windrider bullet [click on the drawing for expanded view] was where the ogive of the nose ends at a dia of .443 then tapers up to .455. This is so the patch can extend up onto the ogive a 1/16" or so and the full PPed diameter of .450 would ride on the lands, centering it without tearing or pushing back the patch. Also, there is a theory that an abrupt change in dia. like this helps the airflow / shockwave stay attached when crossing from super-sonic to sub-sonic, instead of briefly going turbulent and affecting the bullets flight. Two functions in one!

[45 2.1]

I am really waiting to see what 45 2.1 comes up with I spose. Stay tuned

You got e-mail.............................

[303Guy]

While we are talking of boolit design - I made my PC boolit taper so as to fit the throat and leade (and unsized neck). This means that the leade engages the boolit over its taper simultaneously and that the boolit engages the rifling progressively to full depth toward the rear where the remainder of it gets swaged to groove diam. A low speed boolit works just fine and 'high' speed boolits seemed to be accurate so I am assuming the principle works. But with PP, the paper needs to be over a bore sized shank so as to cut properly. This means I must either shorten the boolit or leave some lead exposed to partially engage the rifling or go to a bore riding nose. Exposed lead will need lube. I'm not sure what my next boolit should look like!:roll:
Any thoughts?

[windrider919]

Hi 303Guy. No you don't want any lead touching the bore for the 1600FPS loads and up. And there is another thing to consider, it is traditional to say that the rifling 'cuts' the patch because the deep BP rifling appears to do just that from the recovered confetti in front of the bore. However, I and other smokeless shooters that do not have deep rifling still shed our patches at the muzzle as very small paper flakes. Too small to call confetti, its just paper dust. Again, we have discussed this in earlier threads trying to determine the mechanism. I think it will all be theory until we can photograph a PP bullet as it leaves the muzzle. Some say that the centrifugal force throws the cut patch off. But some rifling and polygonal barrels do not cut the patch. Centrifugal force could still have some effect though. Others propose that the muzzle blast shreds the patch from behind as the bullet leaves the muzzle. And still others think that the airflow over the bullet tear off the patch. I actually think muzzle blast has the greatest effect, at least with my rifle. I have 6 very narrow and shallow lands that could NOT cut through more than one layer of patch. and my patches are blown to dust right at the muzzle. I tried to capture some in an 8" cardboard tube sprayed with adhesive but only got paper dust. and not much of that.

You said: But with PP, the paper needs to be over a bore sized shank so as to cut properly. This means I must either shorten the boolit or leave some lead exposed to partially engage the rifling or go to a bore riding nose. Exposed lead will need lube. I'm not sure what my next boolit should look like!

I do know that as mentioned above the Windrider bullet paper patch touches and centers on the bore diameter and does not need exposed lead to touch. In other words, the paper is bore riding and not the lead. So nothing cuts that first 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch (depending on how far I cary the patch forward up the ogive. I have done it so far forward the paper started to wrinkle and those patches still shed perfectly.

Sure looking forward to what 45 2.1 draws up, you going to post it for us?

[357maximum]

45 2.1 emailed me a beautiful boolit. We have a few things to finish up on it and then he will do the deed. This is going to be a great thing if we find a way to get into fruition. Ir will pleasa anyone wanting a 200 grain PP for a .35 as well as the 348 winnie guys....just a win win situation.

[303Guy]

Thanks for the explanation, windrider919. That makes life a whole lot easier!

[45 2.1]

Something to look at, 0.351" diameter, about 200 gr. cast of soft alloy and very suitable as a plinker/small game boolit out of the 348 Win. This design will probably be available soon to everyone.

[windrider919]

Where do you plan to have the case mouth located? I know this bullet is planned for PP so it does not get crimped. So obviously it does not need a crimp groove. I usually just use the crimp groove to locate the proper seating depth anyway. Would this be a base pour or nose pour and if base pour have you considered a HP?

[45 2.1]

Where do you plan to have the case mouth located? I know this bullet is planned for PP so it does not get crimped. So obviously it does not need a crimp groove. I usually just use the crimp groove to locate the proper seating depth anyway. Would this be a base pour or nose pour and if base pour have you considered a HP?

All ya'll get here is the printed word........... The case mouth is at the top lube groove (so to speak) and my PP loads do get crimped into those lube grooves (since the paper shrinks into them and the paper isn't cut in any way. Crimp is not what you think it is at times. You do have to have a smooth inner case mouth when you do this though. The mold will be produced as a base pour and mine will be a four cavity with one of those cavities hollow pointed, although it won't be needed in the PP application.

[leftiye]

Let's do a 300 grainer (or 250 grs.) too!

[357maximum]

Leftie- you are on your own as to a boolit that heavy.

Some encouraging news for this little project though:

the man making the moulds is yet to arrive on scene as a commercial enterprise in our field. He has been making moulds for quite some time and I have over a dozen of his works of art in my possession that I have aquired over the past couple of years. The way it is looking right now orders could be taken as soon as 2 weeks, and delivery would be about 3 weeks behind that. They should be available as either a 2 or 4 cavity and there may be other odd options for those that feel the need to poke a hole in the front of a soft boolit.[smilie=1:

Price would be less than the bigtime custom boys charge and similar to what the other small time talented folks are charging here. I will likely choose a straight 4 cavity mould, but am yet undecided.


He will poke his head in here when the time comes.

[windrider919]

Here is a picture of a bullet for PP that 45 2.1 helped me work out.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/22PPExpMould159.jpg

A loaded 458 WinMag round and both a naked bullet and samples of my patches

The cast n shoot diameter is .454, patch to .463 to fit the throat. The grooves are like ranch dogs or Lee Tumble Groove grooves to help hold the patch on for shooting smokeless.

[303Guy]

I couldn't help noticing the folded patch tail so I have attempted to zoom in a little.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/windrider919-1.jpg

It didn't work. But you get the idea!

[rbuck351]

I too would like one in 250 gr, and if the mold maker made a cherry a couple of lube grooves longer it could be made in two or three weights.

[Nrut]

Here is a picture of a bullet for PP that 45 2.1 helped me work out.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/22PPExpMould159.jpg

A loaded 458 WinMag round and both a naked bullet and samples of my patches

The cast n shoot diameter is .454, patch to .463 to fit the throat. The grooves are like ranch dogs or Lee Tumble Groove grooves to help hold the patch on for shooting smokeless.

I like yours and 45 2.1 designs Windrider...Who cuts your molds? .....I am interested in these cast to bore dia.+ boolits in several calibers. including the one .357 maximum is proposing....

I am just a beginner with PP (second season) but sure glad to see more people take interest in PP...Keep up the good work!
Mic

[windrider919]

I had a brass mould made by Bernie at Old West Bullet Moulds:

http://www.oldwestbulletmoulds.com/

It is an excellent mould, well machined and turns out premium bullets. He produced it for me in 30 days from the time I sent him the final drawing and payment.

$100.00 for cherry

$105.00 for long bullet double mould

$12.00 shipping

HOWEVER: I also included $18.00 for a set of mould handles which I NEVER received! He had answered my emails within a day during planning and mfg stages but when I wrote to him asking about the missing handles he never answered my several attempts to contact him. I just accepted my loss and went on. Great moulds but not so great service.

[badgeredd]

Let's do a 300 grainer (or 250 grs.) too!

To whom it may concern,

See............................................... .. I'm not the only one! And now I am getting how your brain is working! Scares me too!

Edd

[357maximum]

:mrgreen:

[BABore]

Soon to be realized.

[357maximum]

LOOKING GOOD BRUCE.THANKS FOR POKIN YOUR HEAD IN ans posting the eye candy.........................THE WHELEN and The MARLIN sit here in eager anticipation.

[223tenx]

Guys,
FYI. I pm'd Red River Rick and he will make an adjustable wgt. .351 single cav. pp mold for ~$180 Canadian shipped. If I did the conversion correctly, that's about $165 USD.

[357maximum]

I actually personally handled that cherry in Babs pic yesterday when I was at his house. I was there getting some very gratious hands on instruction on firelapping101.



The cherry needs some flutes yet, but it sure looks nice.

357maximum <---------------------chomping at the bit in eager anticipation.

[357maximum]

Once Bruce gets the cherry done the .351 ppatch/.348 plinker design will be available here: http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=58620

[303Guy]

Soon to be realized.Would you folks mind if I posted your pic on another forum to show the folks how a cherry is made? (It is your pic and if you don't want me to, I will respect that).:drinks:

[BABore]

Ok, the cherry is done and proofed. I have listed the specifics in a post on the Vendor Sponser forum.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=659880#post659880

[357maximum]

The moulds are ready to be ordered..NO GROUP BUY NECESSARRY.....All you need to do is go down to BRP's spot in the vendor sponsor area to see where to send your check. :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[RBak]

Congratulations to all those who have put their minds to the task!

I've been following this thread with great interest. Soooo, just so I'm sure of what I'm going to be ordering, would one of you guys confirm what I'm thinking....

For my .35 Whelen; the boolit, as cast, will have a OAL of 1.143, it will weigh (+/-) 261gr, and have a diameter of .351...all depending, of course, on my alloy.

Please tell me I'm right!!

Thanks, Russ...

[45 2.1]

For my .35 Whelen; the boolit, as cast, will have a OAL of 1.143, it will weigh (+/-) 261gr, and have a diameter of .351...all depending, of course, on my alloy.

Please tell me I'm right!! Thanks, Russ...

Russ, looking at the drawing BABore posted, you will see a 35 Whelen length that is shorter than the one you chose. That one fits 357 Maxs bottom of case neck to throat engaugement for HIS rifle. The length and weight you chose are correct from the drawing, BUT, you need to see what fits your rifle. The length you chose may let the patched boolit seat below your case neck, OR you can always patch it shorter to fit..

[RBak]

I currently shoot the 358009 and have for some time been considering sizing it down to .352 and patchin' it back to .3585

I just measured a 286gr 358009...again, and the OAL is 1.144...

I guess what I'm saying is I wanted the heaviest / longest PP boolit I could get for my 1:12 twist barrel, and I thought the above drawing might have reflected one particular length that looked like it just might be the "cat's meow".

Right now I have the Lyman 358009 @ 286gr. the SAECO 352 @ 250gr, and the RCBS @ 205 gr. The thought has always been to size 'em down, patch 'em back up ...but, with this new mould, and the possibility of getting just about exactly what I've always wanted, with two / three less steps, it just seemed to good to be true.

What now...coach???

Do you still see any reason this loooong boolit wouldn't work?
Of course I don't know if it would work or not, at least 'till I played with them a bit, but I have a strong feeling that if the 358009 would fit (length wise) then why would BABore's boolit not work?

What am I missing on this length thingy? Just when I think I've got the answer, progress seems to up and change the question...hardly seems fair, dontcha think?


Russ...

[45 2.1]

I currently shoot the 358009 and have for some time been considering sizing it down to .352 and patchin' it back to .3585

I just measured a 286gr 358009...again, and the OAL is 1.144...

I guess what I'm saying is I wanted the heaviest / longest PP boolit I could get for my 1:12 twist barrel, and I thought the above drawing might have reflected one particular length that looked like it just might be the "cat's meow".

Right now I have the Lyman 358009 @ 286gr. the SAECO 352 @ 250gr, and the RCBS @ 205 gr. The thought has always been to size 'em down, patch 'em back up ...but, with this new mould, and the possibility of getting just about exactly what I've always wanted, with two / three less steps, it just seemed to good to be true.

What now...coach???

Do you still see any reason this loooong boolit wouldn't work?
Of course I don't know if it would work or not, at least 'till I played with them a bit, but I have a strong feeling that if the 358009 would fit (length wise) then why would BABore's boolit not work?

What am I missing on this length thingy? Just when I think I've got the answer, progress seems to up and change the question...hardly seems fair, dontcha think? Russ..

As long as the patched length on the boolit is about the same as the bearing body length on what your useing now with the 358009 (and that one is long), you should be ok. The 358009 boolit is too long (since the GC and bands above it intrudes into the case body quite a bit) in some 35 Whelen rifles I know of. The object with patched is to try to have the patched boolit at the base of the neck and the front end of the patch engraved into the rifling throat. One way to check is to seated the 358009 backwards and let the rifle seat the boolit to depth, then measure from the end of the boolit to the base of the case neck. That would be your ideal patched length which you can compare to the BRP drawing. Not knowing the length and shape of the throat on your rifle, I don't know more.

[RBak]

Thanks bud....never looked at it quite like that.

I will do as you suggested with seating the boolit backwards. If I understand you right the measurement I'm looking for is the distance from the end, or base, of the now "reversed" boolit, to the top of the case neck.

You said; "then measure from the end of the boolit to the base of the case length".....are we saying the same thing?

Sorry to be such a pest and so dang burn bothersome, but sometimes here lately it seems I need a bit more explaining on such matters.
Whoever said age 70 should be your "Golden Years" must have been on the outside looking in....cause it sure ain't turning out that way once you're on the inside!:oops:

Thanks for taking the time!

Russ...

[45 2.1]

Thanks bud....never looked at it quite like that.

I will do as you suggested with seating the boolit backwards. If I understand you right the measurement I'm looking for is the distance from the end, or base (GC end), of the now "reversed" boolit, to the base of the case neck (where it joins the shoulder).

You said; "then measure from the end of the boolit to the base of the case neck".....are we saying the same thing?

Sorry to be such a pest and so dang burn bothersome, but sometimes here lately it seems I need a bit more explaining on such matters.
Whoever said age 70 should be your "Golden Years" must have been on the outside looking in....cause it sure ain't turning out that way once you're on the inside!:oops:

Thanks for taking the time! Russ No problem at all.

[BABore]

Please don't take this as condesending, cause it's not meant to be at all. Make sure you use a GC on that boolit when measuring, or use a PB boolit for it. We want you to get that distance measured right.

[357maximum]

I have the first fruit-of- the-mold sitting here waiting for me to get time to wrap, load and shoot them. they sure is purdy.......:smile:

Bruce you have outdone yourself again.THANK YOU for providing me something I could not get otherwise. :drinks:

FOLKS:
These can be ordered anytime now...just print the form in the vendor sponsor area for BRP and mail it in or give BABORE a holler as I do not think he has his catalog updated...I know he has several new designs (including a cute little GC 22cal) that are not on there.