Too much crimp?

[walker77]

Im new to reloading. Ive done some 223 now im trying some pistol loads. I think i got my 40 down ok. Unfortuantly its a hk P2000sk so i cant use cast in it. But yesterday i tried getting my settings right for my 44mag load. I used a lee die. And i think the crimp was way too much. Thanks for the help.


http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/nwalker77/44bullet.jpg

[mdi]

From what I can see, it isn't to much. I shoot medium to heavy loads in my .44 Blackhawk and a heavy crimp is necessary to both hold the bullets in place during heavy recoil and to insure good ignition with the powders I use (WC820 and 2400).

[HeavyMetal]

I don't think thats to much crimp but I do think it's in the wrong place.

Without seeing a boolit that hasn't been seated I can only guess of course. Most semi wadcutter molds, especially for the 44, have a front driving band with a groove under it to "fold" your crimp into.

Crimping as you have is not a problem but it does reduce case capacity and therefore, in theory, it will raise pressure.

If you need to use this boolit crimped in this manner I will suggest you back off the start load your using another 5% and you should then work up from there.

If you change your crimp location in the future you'll have to rework the load from scratch.

[Blammer]

personally I think it's too much crimp.

I put little and mostly NO crimp on my 44 mag loads and have no problems with them.

[runfiverun]

for a load of h-110 that is okay, but i wouldn't use that much crimp unless needed for functioning in a lever gun.
does that boolit have a crimp groove elsewhere?

[Gohon]

That looks like a RNFP type to me, not a semi wadcutter. If it is the former then the crimp groove would be just about where it is crimped.

[walker77]

according to my hornady book the OL is correct. I bought these bullets before i got into casting. Here is the auction that i bought from.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131645829

[Gohon]

Well, in the the picture on the auction site they do look like a semi wadcutter and by the sescription from the seller would indicate they are. Sure seems like a awful small shoulder on the front driving band though.

[Orygun]

Looks like a Lyman 429421 and it has a crimp groove. What bullet are you looking at in the Hornady book for OAL?

[MtGun44]

Looks like a 429421 seated WAY too deep, to me. The crimp is a bit on the heavy side, but
not a problem. I tend to think that case neck tension is as important or more important than
the crimp, unless you are shooting them in a S&W 329 which tends to be a boolit puller. For
the 329 you need good neck tension and a heavy crimp.

Understand that for boolits with a crimp groove, you usually want to crimp into the groove,
as it frequently has to do with the design of the boolit. Of course, there are sometimes
different reasons (using a boolit in a cartridge other than what it was designed for, as an
example) to NOT crimp in the crimp groove, but -

If this is a 429421 or RCBS 44-250-K or H&G 503, you should ignore the Hornady LOA and
crimp into the groove, because Keith designed the front driving band to just enter the taper
leading to the throat to center the loaded round up in the chamber.

Also - seating the boolit deeper than intended will raise pressures and will invalidate the
expected pressure from loading data. If you are using Hornady LOA, you should be using
a Hornady bullet of the exact type that they did. For the Keith boolits, you should use
Keith specific loading data, altho this isn't ultra critical, as long as you work up to the
heavier loads to make sure they are OK in YOUR gun.

I presume that the Hornady LOA was for one of their jacketed bullets, so would be totally
invalid for a dramatically different design like the Keith - which is intended to leave more
room in the case to hold more powder and lower pressures.

Here is a properly set LOA for a 429421 and a fairly heavy crimp.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=949

Bill

[44man]

Mtgun44 has it right. Ignore any overall length stuff in books. He shows a good crimp too, not much is needed in a .44 other then enough to hold boolits in under recoil. It does not aid powder burn.
If you see a tiny bulge right under the crimp, it is too much.
The are boolits without a crimp groove that must be crimped at the front and loads need to be reduced for them.

[wallenba]

Use a caliper and check the overal length of that cartridge and compare to published minimums.Remember, a bullet seated too deep will leave less space in the case resulting in overpressure. I've seen that mistake in beginners before. So, start with the lowest loads first to minimize consequences of oversights. The crimp looks good though.

[KYCaster]

You got some good advice from MtGun4 and 44man, they know what they're talking about.

My question is, why can't you use lead boolits in your HK?

I haven't seen or fired a P2000 yet, but I know several people who regularly use lead in USP's, 94's and MP5's without any problems, so I wouldn't expect yours to be any different.

Just wondering,
Jerry

[44man]

Anyone shooting Lee boolits knows the crimp grooves are hardly there and the crimp die needs adjusted for less or the case can buckle. Yet even in the .475, there is enough to hold boolits in. Case tension does the most work and the crimp just aids it.
I spent years testing crimps with the .44 and shot many, many rounds with 296 with no crimp to as hard as they can be made without ruining the brass or the boolit/bullet. To be safe about tying up a gun I shot the no crimp stuff single shot. Not a gnats worth of difference as long as case tension was right.
I really hate to read a magazine where the guy says you need a TIGHT crimp to make the powder burn! [smilie=1: Just try and get a tight crimp on a Lee boolit! Yet, they shoot just fine.

[runfiverun]

mtn gun's picture looks exactly how i do my 429421 boolits they just barely snick through my 44 lever if i need to make exactly sure they are gonna feed hunting, or cowboy type stuff] i just trim about 5 thou off the case.
neck tension does trump crimp for burning the powder, the crimp is to keep the bullet from wandering during recoil.