Range Report--Garand & Lyman 311299

[tejano]

The recipe--Lyman # 311299 by Montana Cast Bullets, Federal Cases, CCI 34 primers, 28.0 gr. of H4895, OAL 3.283, Range 100 yards, 16 shots, Sled deployed. Temperature was damn hot (and windy). It is Texas afterall.

Let me start by saying that I am satisfied overall with the first attempt a shooting cast bullets in my M1. The first 4 shots were fired at 50 yards and since those were okay, I moved to 100. The first 4 shots are at 6 o'clock. The first of those is to the right. I adjusted the sight to the left and fired the next 3 shots shown.

Then I adjusted the sight upward and fired the next 8 shots. I like those.

However, I did not leave well enough alone. I adjusted the front sight up again and got the 4 that you see above the 8-shot group. Perhaps I flinched or perhaps the barrel had heated up. I should quit while I was ahead, right?

I should also note that this load did not eject the fired case. I had to do it manually. This was not a big deal to me, but I may try 30 gr. of H4895 the next time out.

Did I mention that it was 96 degrees at this point and windy. Indeed, I assisted putting out a small fire at the range. The ground (yes, the ground) at the pistol range caught on fire. I suppose that a hot 22 case ignited unburned powder on the ground. It cooked off a couple of 22 rounds that had been thrown on the ground by some less than careful shooters. Good thing it was an uncrowded Monday.

[35 Whelen]

That is an excellent group! Keep us posted. I'd be curious how much 4895 it'll take to cycle the bolt.
35W

[Calamity Jake]

I'm using 314299 in my garand with Bartlets pull down 4895, IIRC 34.0 grains cycles the action, I also use a Dacron filler.

[Larry Gibson]

tehano

Suggest you do as Calmity Jake is doing and use a dacron filler. I suggest a 3/4 gr filler starting with your 28 gr load and working up in 1 or 1/2 gr increments until you get positive ejection. Also as CJ is doing many times a 314299 fits milsurp '06s much better and is more accurate, especially with those rifles having worn barrels.

Larry Gibson

Larry Gibson

[tejano]

Thank guys. Larry, I forgot to mention in my recipe piece that I used the 3/4 filler that you mentioned on another thread.

[Larry Gibson]

Thank guys. Larry, I forgot to mention in my recipe piece that I used the 3/4 filler that you mentioned on another thread.

Great! then work up if you want a functioning load. If you don't mind working the action yourself then it appears you're doing well as is.

Larry Gibson

[TexRebel]

??? isn't the 311299 a little heavy for loading in a garand, I have heard that heavy boolits can damage the operating system

[tejano]

I am not particularly experienced with shooting cast bullets in a Garand, but I don't think the weight of the bullet is a factor here. For one thing, 28.0gr is a modest load and should not present any pressure problems for the Garand's operating rod, and for another, I followed the advice of other Garand shooters on this forum. Hopefully, one or more of them will weigh in here.

[BruceB]

The only critical thing in loading for the Garand is the pressure at the gas port. If the pressure is within the correct limits, meaning enough pressure to operate the action without causing undue speed in the operating parts, the load is fine.

It doesn't matter how heavy the bullet or how slow the powder (or how fast) as long as the GAS PORT PRESSURE is within operating limits. This statement assumes that the load is safely within limits for chamber pressure, as well.

Statements about "too heavy" (bullet)or "too slow" (powder) are based on loading JACKETED bullets, and such statements have been made since the first civilian-owned Garand was first fired with handloaded ammo, I'm sure. As far as jacketed loads are concerned, YES...don't go above 175 grains nor slower than perhaps 4064 powder. With cast bullets, we have found the situation is very different indeed.

Do a search here for "Garand" and "BobS load" to see how the rifles work with cast bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on BruceB's comments. In gas guns; heavy for caliber cast bullet + medium/slow burning powder = sufficient gas port pressure to function action + velocity within the RPM threshold for accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Chunky Monkey]

Great info guys but now I guess I gotta get another mold. I luv shooting my newly acquired M1 but 150 FMJ's at $99/500 just ain't gonna cut it.

What weight does the 311299 cast at?

Are you folks heat treating them or just water quenching?

[tejano]

I am buying mine at this point from Montana Bullet Works and they are weighing at 200 gr. Someone else who is casting his will need to "weigh" in here.

[oldhickory]

I'm using a 311332, (180gr heat treated) and 41gr of IMR4831. It cycles the bolt, tosses the empties in a neat pile and gives good, (not spectaculer accuracy, but good). I now have an adjustable cylinder plug so I should be able to use a broader selection of loads and still have the bolt cycle...All I need now is time.:(

[calinb]

That's an encouraging result, tejano. I just loaded the Lee C309-160-R (153 gr with my alloy on my scale) and I used a load right out of Lee's "Mondern Reloading, 2nd Ed." book: 27 BHN and 28 gr H4895.

I loaded some cases with the the wad and some without. I loaded 0.100" off the rifling which left the first lube ring out of the case (about 3.010" OAL). From your post, I'll be ejecting them manually from my Garand too. I'd planned to go to the range yesterday for testing, but couldn't make it. I need to make a harder alloy before trying loads heavy enough to cycle the action in my Garand and I'd rather go hard, as prescribed by Lee's tables, even with the gas check, I also have a Schuster Nut adjustable gas valve but usually leave it out to shoot "as issued" J.C. Garand fun matches. It's a simple matter to screw it in for plinking with my reloads, though.

[calinb]

I've found 35 or maybe 36 gr of 4895 is required to reliably work the action in my Garand. I plan to try BL-C(2) loads from the Lee book too, due to better metering of the ball powder. Looks like something on the order of 45 gr in BLC(2) builds the same max pressure as 36 gr in H4895. My hard alloy bullets weigh about 153gr with the gas check.

Lee 155 gr .30-06 data:
H4895: 36 gr 2440 fps 40400 psi
BL-C(2) 45 gr 2580 fps 40400 psi

I tried several loads with the Lee 309-160R without the gas check, from low velocity (full case) Trail Boss loads (which won't cycle the action) to 36 gr H4895 loads. Sans gas check, I can't even hit the paper reliably from 28 yards (Appleseed range)! With a gas checks, I get 2.25 MOA prone position at ranges from 28 to 100 yards. Guess there's no avoiding the cost of the gas check.

[dualsport]

I'd like to hear more about the BLc2 loads. I have a bunch of that and my WWII 4831 stash is getting low. Anybody else use it in a Garand? Still use the dacron?

[calinb]

I'd like to hear more about the BLc2 loads. I have a bunch of that and my WWII 4831 stash is getting low. Anybody else use it in a Garand? Still use the dacron?
For me, Dacron was just one more time-consuming step so I quit using it. It increased velocity (and presumably pressure) for any given load but I didn't find that it improved consistency--at least not on level ground at the range in my experience.

-Cal

[Curtis44]

I have found that 34.5 of AA 4350 (I suppose other 4350's would work as well)
and either a 170 G Lyman 311041 or 311299 will reliably function the action of my Garand and provides excellent accuracy. Velocity will be less than with faster powders loaded to the same port pressure level. This keeps the velocity in the "sweet spot" (not too fast). Most of my milsurps seem to like velocities kept near 1600-1800 fs, much faster and accuracy deteriorates.