Annealed vs non annealed brass!

[RMulhern]

This target in my opinion is sub-par for me....and the rifle! Look at the vertical dispersion! The bullseye overall diameter is 44"; 10 ring plate in the middle is 20" for comparison purposes! This group was fired with NON ANNEALED BRASS! This group was fired on a still day...not much wind at all. If I had been shooting with a varying head or tailwinds...one might could expect this much variation but not on this occasion as it was relatively still when I fired this! With both groups fired....I called all....down the middle...good breaks!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/Sharps110/BPCR%20SHOOTING%20RELOADING/th_5904bc41.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/Sharps110/BPCR%20SHOOTING%20RELOADING/?action=view&current=5904bc41.jpg)

Now....here's the same rifle, same cases, same load, same conditions mostly USING ANNEALED BRASS! Both groups fired with 114 grs. Swiss 1F using the same bullet! With the first group I fired I got black smut at and around the mouth of the cases telling me the brass was TOO HARD! I took the same cases and annealed them....came back the next afternoon and fired this group:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/Sharps110/BPCR%20SHOOTING%20RELOADING/th_879a12df.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/Sharps110/BPCR%20SHOOTING%20RELOADING/?action=view&current=879a12df.jpg)

[montana_charlie]

Rick,
It's obvious you seat the bullet into some amount of neck tension, so the hard/soft condition of the brass makes a big difference.

Have you ever done the same test using fireformed necks...no tension?
(Probably couldn't do it with PP...only greasers)
CM

[RMulhern]

CM

Yes sir...I have but not with the 50/90; was working with the 110 at the time and the results...FOR ME...were less than stellar!! I wanted to see if my theory that blackpowder needs a certain amount of neck tension to burn efficiently vs not having any tension. The fouling with no tension seemed to be greater and the accuracy I thought was sub-par after using the same cases which I then FL resized and the bullets seated to somewhere around .002"! I know that some top shooters use seating with no tension and have done quite well with it so I'm only giving MY RESULTS on the outcome! And this was tried on more than a couple of occasions I might add. I was testing from 600 yards under good weather conditions for these times also! :drinks::castmine: And as we both know....all brass...even out of the same Lot WILL NOT BE all consistent therefore I took pains to get on a lathe and turn me an expander plug that I hoped would help compensate for 'spring-back' and I might add that I checked each case mouth as close as possible to ascertain that the ID was as near to what I wanted as possible!![smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[montana_charlie]

CM

Yes sir...I have but not with the 50/90; was working with the 110 at the time and the results...FOR ME...were less than stellar!!
I am extremely distressed to hear you say that.
Early on, I latched onto the simple logic that 'no tension is consistent tension'...especially since it cuts out three reloading steps and reduces wear on brass cases.
I have experienced enough 'very nice' groups to remain convinced that I have managed to 'be all I can be' with no requirement to re-engineer the brass to achieve proper softness and length in a configuration that actually grips the bullet.

I was willing to believe that my 'not so nice' groups resulted from poor technique on my part...but you have introduced a sneaking suspicion that I have not adequately explored the subject.

I'll drop a note to 'try some tension' into the shooting-do jar, and give it a whirl after I make some more headway in reducing the contents of the honey-do jar.

Thanks for the honest reply, but I almost wish you had lied to me...

CM

[RMulhern]

CM

Don't be DISTRESSED! Go back and read my post! I put in two VERY IMPORTANT words within it aka MY RESULTS!! This is ONLY what my conclusions are and since I'm not GOD ALMIGHTY.....what I wrote isn't the gospel; just what hasn't worked FOR ME!!:drinks::-D:coffeecom Remember...NOTHING in this business of BPCR comes fast...especially concrete conclusions!! What works in my rifle and for me....possibly may not work in yours!!:???::roll:

[Kenny Wasserburger]

CM,

My very best loads run .002 neck Tension with GG bullets, That also means about .020-.025 of the front driving band into the rifling also.

As Dan T mentioned a smaller volume for start gives cleaner burn? or more consistant MV.

My very best scores have always been shoot with Annealed brass, the 5@200 group is also another example.

Food for thought.

PS
Annealing: one does not need to get real fancy or expensive equipment, a drill, and the Spinner Jim Terry sells and a propane torch and semi-darken room and a bucket or tray to let the brass cool, I air cool mine as it makes for a more consistant anneal.

The Lunger
KW

One last thought: Annealed brass seals the chamber better? and perhaps is also a factor that improves overall accuracy?

I have no idea, I just know what works and works well. It is kinda like that primer wad thing testing a lot and at very long ranges, has gave me alot of feedback.

[Jon K]

I agree with the Annealled brass seals the chamber which = a more consistant burn, which equates to better accuracy.

Jon

[runnin lead]

This was shot with annealed brass ( post from last fall )I had 3 shots in a row that my spotter could not see , the next was a miss high. When resetting the targets I got a plesant surprise,1 shot just below the front corner & 2shots just below the rear corner of the hole between the rams head&horn, the 4th most likely went through the hole,
With the hole cutting down on visable lead splatter & ahigh hit causing a fast falling target I can understand that it would be hard to see.
Seeing a group like that was even better than running 5 or even 10 rams!
Lube used was Dan T's w/ jojoba

4 parts beeswax
2 lanolin
1 canola oil
1 jojoba oil
all parts by volume

I have used this lube for 2 months & have found that it don't work on chickens

Jim

[montana_charlie]

I have used this lube for 2 months & have found that it don't work on chickens.
Shucks!
I have spent a long time looking for something to lube chickens with...
CM