What kind of turnbolt rifle is this so-called "Hungarian m95"?

[Linstrum]

I was in Big 5 Sporting Goods in Alamogordo, New Mexico, yesterday and checked out their milsurps. They have one turnbolt rifle in stock that I have never seen before. The kid working the gun counter told me it is a Hungarian Steyr m95, but it is definitely not a straight pull Steyr m95 and the kid couldn't find the papers that came with the rifle.

I like its looks and it would seem to be a nice light rifle that wouldn't slow down my legs too much up here at 9000-feet in the Rockies of Southern New Mexico. Any ideas on what this nice little Hungarian carbine is?


rl548

[JCherry]

Linstrum,

Could it be a Dutch M-95? They were in a 6.5X53R caliber.

You can see photos of some at;

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004797.html

The Romanians had a version almost identical and in the same caliber. I think most if not all of the Dutch and Romanian rifles were made by Steyr.

Indonesia had some Dutch M-95 rifles many were apparently converted to 303 British.

Cartridges for the 6.5 can be made from 303 British. The 6.5X53R is a 6.5X54 Mannlicher-Schonaer with a rim. I use dies for the Mannlicher-Schonaer to load my 6.5X53R.

Have fun.

J. Cherry

[condorjohn]

I picked up an Indonesian M95 carbine at a gun show. It's the neatist little carbibe I've ever seen. Very light and well built. I believe the one I have was converted from a long rifle. On the left side of thr receiver it's marked Steyr 1914 and on the receiver ring 1938. It is still in 6.5. The guy I got it from also had a carbine that was converted to .303, w/ muzzle break installed, and a M95 long rifle taht was converted to 8mm. He said he didn't know what 8mm it is. If you are willing to go through the hastle of finding or forming the brass, and the price is right these Steyr 95's are a good little gun. There is a guy on an auction site that sells ammo for these. Condor John

[Linstrum]

Hi, JCherry, I sure like your neck of the woods. I was first through there in 1961 and it hasn't changed in almost 50 years!

Yeah, I did think of the Dutch rifles, but it is marked in Hungarian. It still could be originally Dutch since after the break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in about 1918 at the end of WW1, the reformed Hungarian military was a real hodge-podge of other countries' equipment since the Hungarian military was constantly in-and-out of existence as the country was carved up and given to other nations as spoils of war. From eyeballing the muzzle it looks like an 8mm and I also thought about one of the various 8x56R rifles. I'll sure check out the photos.

Condorjohn, what you mentioned also sounds like what it might be, no telling what particular cartridge it is chambered in now other than seeming to be one of the 8mm's judging from the size of the bore at the muzzle. I don't have any problems with reforming brass, I have done it quite a few times for 7.5 French, 8m Mauser, and the Swiss 7.5 for their K31.

Once I see some photos of Steyr bolt guns I'll know for sure what it is or isn't.

Thanks!

rl549

[Buckshot]

............Linstrum, did you actually handle the rifle? If so I take it it really WAS a turnbolt?

.............Buckshot

[pietro]

The rifle is most likely a Austro-Hungarian Steyr M-95 rifle or carbine, also most likely chambered in one of the rimmed 8mm oddities, like the 8x50R or 8x56R.

Steyr is a famous Austrian rifle manufacturer, who made military arms for many countries before the advent of Paul Mauser's rifles.
They later acquired the rotary magazine system and made the 1903 Manlicher-Schoenauer Carbines & rifles, until the early 1970's, but still make sporting rifles.

The original guns were all of the same basic design, AFAIK - with a single-stack fixed mag built into the bottom metal and hanging below the stock line, the turnbolt working through a split rear receiver bridge, with the handle locking down in front of the rear bridge, ILO in the rear of it, like most other turn boltguns.

IIRC, they require that the cartridges be clipped together with a "clip" and loaded into the mag "en bloc", with the empty clip expelled downward when the gun was run dry via firing/etc.

Here's some examples, w/pics:

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl18-e.htm

.

[jonk]

Pietro,

If it is a turnbolt, it isn't possible for it to be one of the Austro-Hungarian carbines.

There are some other more obscure guns made in Austria/Hungary. Go to the gunboards forum, scroll down to the Mannlicher forum, and look at their sticky on Steyr weapons production.

[pietro]

I could be confused, both as to what exact rifle is referred to in the OP, and in the Steyr-Werke models - since Steyr made guns for many customers, just like Mauser.

AFAIK, this is a turnbolt 6.5.mm Steyr-Werke Carbine

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armagm/arm076.jpg

And this is a straight pull 8mm Steyr-Werke M95 Carbine

http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armagm/arm096.jpg

.

[JCherry]

Linstrum,

I first went through here in 68. I've been up in this part of Arizona almost 5 years now. I had enough of the "southern" part of the state and it was time to get out.

I wish it was like it was in 61 or even 68, the place is crawling with people. You want to go out in the forest on a Holiday weekend, you'll get run over in a New York minute by some 12 year old on a ATV. Winter is not bad at least it's cold enough to keep most of the riff-raff out.

I must say I'm glad to be up here though. Elk go through the back yard on a regular basis and during the rut it's nice to sit on the back porch and listen to them bugle. Can't hunt from the yard though, too many houses nearby. I'm not a good hunter. Had a late season Bull Elk permit a couple of years ago and all I saw during that season was cows. This last season got a cow permit and all I saw was Bulls. Even had a Bull come with in 20-25 feet of me and stand in front of my rifle, all I had to do was pull the trigger, but of course, no Bull permit, no trigger pull!

Concerning the rifle at Big Five in Alamogordo, sounds like you'll have to do a chamber cast to figure out what the caliber is. Does it look like the Dutch 95 or something else?

Have fun.

JCherry

[Linstrum]

MYSTERY SOLVED

Hi, guys, thanks for all of your excellent input!

Yup, I handled it and it is definitely a Dutch "karabijn No. 1 oud model" that has been re-barreled to an 8mm of some sort. For a photo (thanks JCherry) see:

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004800.html

If I get it I will need to do a chamber cast to identify it, I have several pounds of Cerro-Safe, so that part is not a problem. Getting it hinges on what shape the bore is in, I will need to take a cleaning kit to swab out the old dried-up Cosmoline that has been sitting in its bore all these years.

It kind of makes you wonder just exactly where that rifle was stored for the last 80-90 years, it was sitting somewhere while a lot of history was taking place all around it in Europe.

I sure like its looks, that is a nice little carbine!


rl551

[Buckshot]

.............Wow, and Big5 had it? Maybe that store handles "Trade Ins" :-)

.............Buckshot

[MtGun44]

The Germans were converting about anything they had to 8x57 in WW2 for issue to
second line troops, all over conquered territory. Might have been how this happened.

Bill