.454 250 grain load

[oleycow]

I ran across a load for a 250gr Hornaday XTP on Handloads.com calling for 35.5 grains of H110. I loaded up about 25 and while testing they were kicking like a mule and sticking in the cylinders upon extraction out of my Raging Bull

Does this load seem a little hot? If so any suggestions on what to load it down to?

Most 454 loading manuals that I have found do not include the Hornaday 250 xtp. so I don't have much of a reference point for a starting load only the one I found online.

[dk17hmr]

Nosler lists 32.0gr of H110 for a MAX load with their 260gr Partition Hollow Point. at 32gr's they list 108% load density and 1942 FPS.

Starting load is 30.0gr's.
I run right around 30grs of H110 in my 454 with 300gr cast bullets.

[Tn_River_Ratt]

Might wanna watch the regular XTP hollowpoints. I have been told to stick to the XTP mags when trying to run em at higher pressures. Maybe someone else can help.

[cajun shooter]

I hope you realize that the sticking cases are a sign of very high pressure. You can use any 250 gr. load for a idea of the correct load. NOTICE I SAID IDEA NOT LOAD!! In today's world of the pc it is crazy to take for granted any thing you find on the net with out first doing some research on your own. Who are these people? How much do they know about internal and external ballistics? How many guns have they blown up in practice shooting these loads? Elmer Keith put more than one to sleep in his days. If your gun is still good I think you have learned a good leason with a good out come. You could be having some one else type this out as you can no longer see.

[44man]

Might wanna watch the regular XTP hollowpoints. I have been told to stick to the XTP mags when trying to run em at higher pressures. Maybe someone else can help.
Very, very true. The core can be shot out leaving the jacket in the bore.
The .454 is a strange animal with the SR primer pocket and great care must be used with starting loads of H110. The powder and bullet can be blown into the barrel without any ignition.
It is not an easy caliber to work loads with. The huge difference in bullet construction means you must really use your head in choosing one. Powder charges must match the bullet selected.
Why a bunch of hand loaders have have not been injured with this caliber is testimony to the strength of the guns.
I will be up front with you, I do NOT like the caliber because of the primer used.

[oleycow]

I only shot 13 rounds out of the 25 the gun seems to be ok yet I will take a closer look. If 30 gr. of h110 is start load for a 260. I am thinking about 31gr. for start load for a 250? any thoughts on that?

[44man]

I only shot 13 rounds out of the 25 the gun seems to be ok yet I will take a closer look. If 30 gr. of h110 is start load for a 260. I am thinking about 31gr. for start load for a 250? any thoughts on that?
I just don't have enough experience with the .454 other then watching a friend with a Freedom and working on the SRH. I had to come up to the house for a brass rod and a big hammer to remove boolits stuck in the bore. Never, ever have I seen a boolit and a load of unburned powder down the bore of a revolver until I started with this caliber.
Please make sure every boolit leaves the bore. Shoot slow and pay attention. Any shot that feels off, open the gun and look. With starting loads I would look after every shot. The caliber scares me.
All it needs is a large primer pocket.
Remember, Dick used a triplex load that included Bullseye and his tests blew up many guns. He went to the SR primer but the mistake was to stay with it.

[oleycow]

I have been working with my new Ultra Dot 30mm and so I happened to be looking after each of those last 13 rnds. I did compare the recoil of those 250's vs the 300 gr loaded with 30.6 gr of the 110 and the recoil felt similar but the extraction is what concerned me. As I was shooting single rnd at a time the extraction was a little stiff but came out ok. Upon completion of my adjustments I put 5 rnds through and it was the extraction of those 5 rnds that was real tight. I did not need a hammer but I had to use considerable force with my hand.

Do you think that I caused some damage to the Raging Bull. at close inspection I don't see any problems but are there areas I should look at?

ANd then as far as the 250 gr xtp is conserned, I have heard the same things (mostly from you on this forum) about being careful with light loads. And so I have avoided some of the bottom start loads for that reason. This is however the first time I have had extraction problems, and I weighed every rnd. But I still feel that it is too hot to continue with that particular load.

I am looking for a reasonably priced round that I can work on my accuracy with without breaking the bank.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts

Oleycow

[softpoint]

I have a Freedom .454, and have had 2 SRH. I have said elsewhere on these forums, The .454 should be loaded with extreme caution as to the data. My Freedom will digest loads easily that would require a mallet and a dowell rod to get out of either one of my SRH revolvers. Early Freedom arms factory loads were said to be 65000psi and up! As soon as other manufacturers started to chamber this round, it was "de-tuned", and any brand of factory load available now is quite sedate compared. See what type, brand of gun was used in the load data you are using. Only a few bullets were ever recomended for top Freedom loads, as a core can be pushed through a jacket in the forcing cone.
I seldom run my Freedom full tilt anymore, as not that much power is needed for deer and hogs here in Texas, and I can use a much wider selection of bullets, including my favorite cast projectiles.:-D:drinks:

[44man]

A double action revolver needs all 5 or 6 cases pushed out together so even a slight sticky case in one chamber makes it hard.
You did not hurt your gun but just need to load so extraction is easier.
You would not have noticed anything with a single action just pushing out one empty at a time.

[oleycow]

Thanks 44man, I feel that I can breathe a little easier now.

I found some info data on AA #9 with the 250 xtp. any experience with this powder?

[44man]

I have never used it, AA powders are hard to get here and need to be ordered. There is only one gun shop.
I am sure someone here knows a lot about it.

[Johnch]

Another reason to watch those 250 gr XTP's

I loaded them well slower than you did
In 45 colt cases running the same pressures as a 44 mag ( listed as 35,000 PSI )

Shot great
But when I shot a deer
They came apart
Nose blew off and the base exited the far side , sort of like a partition

John

[oleycow]

I am only using them as a target load. I use the XTP 300 mag for my hunting load, I am looking to use these 250 xtp's as a way to get comfortable with the gun and the Ultra Dot sight before the season. So I am wanting to use the .454 rnds. for the sake of feel, but I don't mind a lighter load as long as they don't lodge in the barrel like 44man talks about.

[454PB]

90% of my .454 ammo uses boolits of 300 gr. or more.

While you can get excellent accuracy and enough power for most anything in the lower 48 with lighter boolits, I've quit using ANY of the slow burning ball powders for them.

I've had hangfires and stuck boolits with H-110, WW 296, and WC 820 using light weight boolits.

If you want to use 250 gr. boolit (or bullet) loads, try Bluedot (my favorite) or maybe 2400 (I haven't used it). You can get them up around 1400 fps, and none of the ignition problems seen with ball powders.

[doghawg]

Once your .454 is sighted in for the heavy 300 gr. hunting load the 250 xtp will be just fine for a practice load....at lower velocity. The 250 xtp is not designed for speed that your loading would give. I use 2400 for 300 gr. hunting loads in my .454's and Win 231 or Unique or Blue Dot for lighter loads with 250 grainers. By guggling powder charges a little you'll find a pleasant load for 250 xtp's that shoot to the same POI as the heavies. My Freedoms do very well with 10.5 gr. of 231 under the 250 xtp for 1120 fps. Since I started casting it's been the 255 gr. Lee RF over 10 gr. of Unique for about 1150 fps.
None of the above powders showed any hint of ignition problems with Win SR primers. If you absolutely have to run the .454 at full throttle I 'spose 296 is the way to go but my vote goes to 2400 a couple of notches below max.

[oleycow]

Thanks for the input, I'll give one of the other powders a try. If anyone else has anything else to say I am willing to listen.

[RobS]

H110 is a powder that I use only for full house loads and usually for the heavier bullets, say 300 grainers and up. I too have had the same failure to ignite using lower minimum loads so middle ground and up on the H110/Win 296 powders. AA #9 is a little more forgiving, but it too has ignition problems with lighter bullets. You may have to switch your primers to a magnum small rifle if you are not already using such.

I have loaded everything from 230 grain bullets to a custom 370 grain bullet since having the 454 casull and like either 2400 or blue dot (blue dot being more economical) as I don't load full tilt loads very often. Any of the fast pistol powders (231, unique, green dot anything laying around etc) are great powders with 230 grain to 260 grain bullets to use for plinking rounds. Expect velocities around 900-1100 fps or so. For 2400 or Blue Dot loads you can move up from the 1100 fps mark.

Rob

[WARD O]

BIG DITTOS to Softpoints post in #9 above - none of the other 454's on the market are up to the same standard as the Freedom Arms M83. Be very sure of the origin of the data you are using.

Mostly I shoot 45 Colt in my M83 (extra cylinder) as it is nearly impossible to get too much powder in the case! (slow pistol powder)

Ward

[Bulletlube]

According to Hornady the 250 gr. is for the .45 colt and the 240gr. is for the 454.

[Groo]

Groo here
I have had FA 454s for years with little sticking [ don't load light]
I also have a Tarus 454 and would never put the loads in the taurus
that the FAs eat like candy..
That said- clean your chambers , use a heavy jacket bullet or hard cast,
and crimp HARD!!!!.
You can go too light and dirty the chambers causing later shells to stick...
And if you use 45colt brass --- double clean the chambers as dirt
can build up in front of the case and stick 454 brass.
I rank the taurus a heavy or +p 45 colt, the ruger as a medium 454,and
then you have the FAs [ I don't use 45colt cases in mine at all]
PS If you find s&w 460 bullets that will fit, they should hold the pressure.
Some original loads for FAs went over 65,000 !!!!!!!!

[yondering]

Actually that Taurus is a beefier and stronger gun than the SRH. Compare the chamber wall thickness for example. Top end loads that are OK in the Taurus WILL stick in the Ruger's cylinder.

The mag XTP's are needed for full power 454 loads. The standard 250gr XTP is a softer bullet, and is designed for the 45 Colt. I found this out the hard way, worked up a load with the Mag XTP's and switched to the standard without realizing it... sticking cases just like the OP described.

I don't think your load is too hot, IF you use the right bullets. I found 36gr H110 to be a good load in my Raging Bull with 250gr FMJ Montana Gold bullets, with a Winchester SR primer.

Stick to the lower pressure (44 Mag and below) level loads with the standard XTP's and they will work fine. DO NOT reduce loads with H110, it must be run at max pressure. Try Blue Dot, 2400, or Unique.

[500bfrman]

with H110 you are not supposed to reduce starting loads by more than 3 percent.

[oleycow]

I have already begun using some 2400 with some possitive results. Currently loading up 25.6 gr of the 2400 behind those cheaper 250 xtp's and have had no issues. The recoil is very managable and accuracy is satisfactory. My plan on first using the 250 xtp's was a lower cost round for target shooting and saving my 300 xtp mag's for my hunting load. but i had trouble finding a receipe for the 250 xtp and apparently the only one I found using 35.5 gr of h110 was a little heavy for my gun (sticking) I keep my cylinders very clean. However I had been doing a lot of shooting that day those heavier loads began sticking. I appreciate all of the input and reaffirmations.

Oleycow

[bobthenailer]

ive had good accuracy with the hornday 250 gr xtp in the casull with several different powders but you must keep velocity below 1400 fps as the softer 250 gr xtp bullet is not made for higher chamber pressure loads keep them to about 30,000 cup max as you will ruin the barrel . this info is avaliable on the freedom arms web sight

[Lloyd Smale]

i cant see how they would ruin a barrel other then flame cutting of the forcing cone using the large quanity of ball powder it takes to run one fast. My buddy shoots them at much greater speeds then 1400 fps out of his 450 bushmaster and just last weekend i shot some groups that were under an inch at a 100 yards with that combo. If i was going to push them real fast in a 454 and i have to state here i think its a waste of time as the 454 does better with heavy cast anyday. Id use 2400 or 4227 to push them and stay away from powders like aa9,110,296 or lilgun.

[44man]

i cant see how they would ruin a barrel other then flame cutting of the forcing cone using the large quanity of ball powder it takes to run one fast. My buddy shoots them at much greater speeds then 1400 fps out of his 450 bushmaster and just last weekend i shot some groups that were under an inch at a 100 yards with that combo. If i was going to push them real fast in a 454 and i have to state here i think its a waste of time as the 454 does better with heavy cast anyday. Id use 2400 or 4227 to push them and stay away from powders like aa9,110,296 or lilgun.
Ruined barrel info started with the .357 max using the wrong bullet. The center shot out and left the jacket in the bore. Another shot behind it is not a pleasant thing to see.
Of course, that caliber was not the beginning of the problem but was the most advertised. For the .454 you need to stay with bullets marked "magnum" for hot loads.

[Oregon_Dan]

FWIW, a few years ago, when I was working a lot with my Freedom Arms 454, I corresponded with a fellow that had just got one of the then new Raging Bulls. He was having extraction problems with moderate loads in his gun, using Starline Brass. He sent me some of his Brass and load data to try in mine, and I had no problems with the FA. Nor did I see any other signs of pressure. If I recall correctly, he changed over to W-W brass and could go hotter before he ran into extraction issues. My thought at the time was that it may have been a combination of softer brass, and chambers that were not as smooth, or perhaps a cylinder that was a bit "springier" than the FA.

[bobthenailer]

i belive the 250 gr xtp shot at much over 1400 fps in a 454 casull pistol can cause throat erosion because the bullet jacket is to soft for much higher velocties in relationshp to the chamber pressure they are ment for about 30.000 psi max the 454 casull can double that, however hornday list max velocity at about 1600 fps but at lower chamber pressure than the 454 casull can generate in a rifle theres no problem with 1600 fps because chamber pressure would be normaly lower