Going To Try Casting Tonight

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I have the process of casting down, theoretically anyway.

I have my furnace, my ladle, my pure lead, and my Lee dual cavity mold.

I have shotgun pellets that I'll dump into the pure lead to add hardness.

As I understand it:

1) Melt the lead

2) Toss in a bit of candle wax to flux any bad material to the top; skim.

3) Add the antimony from whatever source you choose. In this case, I'm using shot, but I could use wheel weights (all places are closed) or bar solder, or pretty much any other source of tin (suggestions folks?)

Now, my questions have mostly to do with the Lee dual cavity mold:

1) It says to clean and degrease it. I've done this.

2) It says to lube the pins and plate and all. I've been encouraged to use silicone or graphite. I can just color everything with a pencil, or I can spray the pins with some silicon spray I have around here, etc.

Lubing is what I'm not getting. I need all the lube points, and a common household item that I can use for lube. Out of $$$ til payday. Additionally, how often should I lube it during the casting process???

About smoking the cavities - how often should this be done???

3) Heat the mold in the lead for at least 15 seconds. Pour the alloy through the sprue plate. Turn the mold over onto a wet towel, open the sprue plate, and then open the mold, letting the bullets fall out.

So my main questions are, what can I use as a lube? What are the lube points? How often should I lube? How often should I smoke?

Any answers will be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Josh <><

P.S. I used to be a mechanic, and should have some anti-seize laying around. Would that work for pin lube? Lube points again folks? J.S.

[mroliver77]

ou can use the candle wax to lube the mold. Careful** a little goes a long way. After mold is warmed touch the lube points with the wax and let a small amount melt onto the spot to be lubed. I use beeswax or boolit lube. Use a wood match to smoke cavities. Hold cavity in the point of the flame and it will smoke it fine. It might take a couple matches. New mold I would lube right away, then mebbe 50 casts and then every 100 more or less. You will get a feel for it. You dont need to use the wet rag. Just watch the alloy cool and it will change to a duller look, cut it then. Once you are up and running for a while if it takes over 10 sec to change you might use the rag. Just remember NO cold lead goes into the melted alloy. Prewarm ingots or start from cold pot. Plan on throwing your firt 100 drops back into the pot. Have fun, wear safty glasses and wash well when done. Keep skimmings (dross) dry and in a metal lidded container to be disposed of later.
Jay

Oh ya, I would mix the shot 50/50 with the pure lead. Weigh before you start the pot. Flux the MIXED alloy. Get a nice hunk of hard wood to cut sprues off with. Tap pivot bolt not cavities to loosen stuck boolits. Lube the sprue plate pivot bolt, the <and> on themold faces that align it and the metal pin laid into cavity face, remember easy does it!.

[runfiverun]

the anti-sieze will do fine [ it's what i use]
i just use i like the old days if it moves or touches i lube it while hot just an almost dry brush just touch it where you want it and it will run across the mold.
i also use it on top of the mold to keep any lead smears off the mold.
do not get any in the cavities.....
i smoke aluminum with a bic lighter and you will know when you need it the boolits will start sticking.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Thank you for all the answers.

I stumbled across a pound of wire "lead free solder, 95% tin, 5% antimony" with my gunsmithing stuff. I figure I'll use 1/10lb of that to 1lb lead. Does this sound about right?

Thanks again!

Josh <><

[Ole]

Try less, something like 5%, on the tin.

What are you casting for (caliber/fps/PSI)?

[mroliver77]

That would be approx 10/1 So little antimony I dont know if it would matter. As ole says mebbe 20/1 and see what you have.
J

[docone31]

I went out and got some 95/5, two rolls to be exact. I promptly proceeded to add 6" per 20lbs.
Waste of tin.
If, again, if I add some tin, it is 1" per 20lbs of wheel weights.
All you need to do is put some Kitty Litter on top of the melt, crank up the heat, set the mold in the melt for a bit, pour and watch the sprue freeze.
If you pour, and the sprue freezes immediately, too cold. If you pour and it stays molten, too hot.
If the castings come out wrinkled, too cool. If they are frosty looking, you in the money!
I use a BIC lighter for smokeing the mold. I get better results with the butane lighters than matches in the Lee molds.
The best advice I can give,
Relax. Casting is not all that hard. It just takes relaxing and attention to detail. You will not hurt the mold makeing mistakes unless you use something sharp to pop the casting out. Do not hammer the sprue plate. It should push off. I use a wooden dowel for that.
I have a concrete pad on my casting bench. First, I cast silver, and gold there. Second, I do all my lead casting there. The concrete block, being fireproof, is a good rest to put the corner of the mold on to push the sprue plate. It doesn't move if the sprue is too cold.
Do not hammer the sprue plate!!!! It is not meant for that. Push it. When the sprue is the right temp, it cuts really easily.
You will develop a feel for it as you cast and cast more.
You will make some crappy castings at first. That is the initiation rite. It also gives you something to talk about here.
Lookin forward to seeing you succeed!
You can do it.

[SciFiJim]

When docone31 said push the sprue plate he was right. I use my thumb to push with (with a glove on of course). Make sure that you push the plate far enough that when holding the mold upside down the boolits are not resting on the sprue plate. The only time that I've needed to use anything else was when casting with a 4 or more cavity mold. I use a piece of broomstick to tap the pivot bolt of the handles to jar loose the boolits that don't fall free on their own.

Do as the others suggested for lubing. Put a tiny amount on the sprue plate hinge pin and the alignment pins on the mold face. Then on Monday order some Bullshop sprue plate lube (link is on the bottom of every page). That stuff is absolutely worth every penny you spend on it.

You will develop your own rhythm when casting. It's really not that difficult. Relax and enjoy.
This is a hobby, not nuclear science.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Thank you folks.

I have it figured out - I'm heating the second batch up right now.

I'm throwing about half a pound of 95/5 tin/antimony in for every 5lbs or so of lead. Paraffin is raising impurities to the top for skimming.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/boolitfromfirstbatch.jpg

The above is from the first batch; about 107 were made and lubed. This is a pre-lube pic, taken when I was double checking quality.

I can barely scratch the bullet with my thumbnail, and this is how I like them.

I need to load a dummy to see if I'll need to size these particular bullets. Lee says no, and they don't appear to need it, but you never know.

Thank you,

Josh <><

[mroliver77]

Atta boy Josh. They look good. Expensive way to harden a boolit but you are one of us now! :) Keep us posted how the loading goes. I am excited for you but stay away from my WW haunts.;)
Jay

[Echo]

Congratulations, Josh! A BIG WAY TO GO!

And I reinforce what was said before - any more than 3% tin is unnecessary for mold fill-out. It will harden the alloy somewhat, but the main function of tin in the alloy is to reduce the surface tension so that square corners in the mold turn out square corners on the boolit.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo Josh, and welcome, looks like your on the right track , 1/2 # of 95/5 to 5#lead is not buying you much for the cost of the solder A 6" piece should be plenty for 5#, but that doesn't matter right now , you are getting the hang of it. Don't try to go to fast, you will get it right soon enough, you got a good start.

Google the LASC site , there is a lot of information there about alloy mixes and everything else about casting for your free viewing.

Good Luck

[Josh Smith]

Does anyone have load data for the 90346 boolit? These do fit a bit loosely in the cases - probably how Lee keeps from having to size them - and so I tweaked my crimp another 1/4 turn.

However, it looks like they want the COL to be at or near 1.275". Any further in, and the crimp would have no effect.

Help here please..?

Thanks,

Josh <><

[WHITETAIL]

Josh, Welcome to the forum!:drinks:
Now you are hooked.
There is no cure for smelters.

[armyrat1970]

Hello,

Thank you folks.

I have it figured out - I'm heating the second batch up right now.

I'm throwing about half a pound of 95/5 tin/antimony in for every 5lbs or so of lead. Paraffin is raising impurities to the top for skimming.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/boolitfromfirstbatch.jpg

The above is from the first batch; about 107 were made and lubed. This is a pre-lube pic, taken when I was double checking quality.

I can barely scratch the bullet with my thumbnail, and this is how I like them.

I need to load a dummy to see if I'll need to size these particular bullets. Lee says no, and they don't appear to need it, but you never know.

Thank you,

Josh <><

Don't mean to be the bad apple in the bunch here, and I think your first attempt was good, but it seems your lube grooves are rounded and not very sharp and crisp. You may need to raise the temps of your alloy a little more and heat your mold a little more. Do you have a thermometer for your casting? Regardless, I would load them and shoot them and see how they perform.
Welcome to the casting addiction. It is one thing to handload cartridges with store bought boolits. It is totally different to load with your own cast boolits. Though it takes more work and experiment, much more satisfaction when you get it right.

[leadeye]

Those bullets should work, I use a six cavity like that to feed everything I have in 45ACP and 45 LC.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I loaded up 10 today. I found another undersized one that fell into the case. Figured out what was happening though: The bottom-most band on the bullet is .452". The others are .445" or so.

In some cases, the bottom band did not fill out all the way. This just means I'll have to play with the heat and mixture until I find one that flows better, though with 10% tin I can't imagine it not flowing.

They shoot nicely over 5.1gn of W231 and CCI Magnum LPP (magnum is all I could find at the time; the usual load is 5.6gn with a standard LPP). Check data; load at your own risk.

I didn't check for accuracy; only function. (I'll likely be able to check for accuracy tomorrow). They all functioned fine, with the exception of one - and that was most definitely the fault of the case, as it had gotten pinched and I had not noticed it. It had one side partially torn away. Regardless. a slap to the bottom of the mag seated it, and after I fired it, I chucked the case. I have no doubt function would have been 100% had it not been for the bad case.

Now I need to find out who has some wheel weights. Most places I called yesterday only use steel or zinc now, so they're not as plentiful as even a year ago. One place is actually melting theirs down and selling it to a redistributor now. Darn.

On the upside, I only got burnt once, and it's a second degree burn on my pinkie: I was on a ladder adjusting the flood light to shine down on my work space, and I touched the back the bulb, where it's metal. LOL

Thanks for the help!

Josh <><

[geargnasher]

Sounds good, you might benifit from reading the entire sticky on "leementing" which will address the poor base fillout you are experiencing.

In my experience, poorly filled-out, bevelled, or damaged bases are the #1 cause of leading and accuracy issues due to gas cutting and poor base obturation/sealing. I would strongly recommend culling out any that don't have a razor-sharp edge all the way around. You can achieve this by running the sprue plate a little loose on 1 and 2 cavity moulds, just read about "leementing", really good explanations of what to do there.

Good luck

Gear

[35remington]

Armyrat, the pictured bullet is exactly the way the 230-2R should look. The bands are rounded. Fillout is not a problem in the pictured bullet. The tumble lube bullets have rounded bands, not square ones. I also own the mould in question.

Joshua, crimping ( I presume you are talking taper crimp) will not hold the bullet more "tightly" in the case, as a taper crimp only serves to turn in the bell left by the expander plug. It does not improve bullet tension.

Only the combination of bullet, brass and expander are responsible for the frictional resistance of the loaded round and its ability to resist movement.

The bullets look good, but 10 percent tin added is horribly wasteful. I'd add no more than 2 percent tin to improve fillout, and I'd also experiment with lesser amounts of tin, as 45 ACP bullets are among the easiest to cast and often require very little additional tin, if any, depending upon pot temperature and how warm a day it is out. Given a good hot mould and a good hot melt, fillout should be very good with little extra tin being needed.

[armyrat1970]

Armyrat, the pictured bullet is exactly the way the 230-2R should look. The bands are rounded. Fillout is not a problem in the pictured bullet. The tumble lube bullets have rounded bands, not square ones. I also own the mould in question.

Joshua, crimping ( I presume you are talking taper crimp) will not hold the bullet more "tightly" in the case, as a taper crimp only serves to turn in the bell left by the expander plug. It does not improve bullet tension.

Only the combination of bullet, brass and expander are responsible for the frictional resistance of the loaded round and its ability to resist movement.

The bullets look good, but 10 percent tin added is horribly wasteful. I'd add no more than 2 percent tin to improve fillout, and I'd also experiment with lesser amounts of tin, as 45 ACP bullets are among the easiest to cast and often require very little additional tin, if any, depending upon pot temperature and how warm a day it is out. Given a good hot mould and a good hot melt, fillout should be very good with little extra tin being needed.

35remington, thanks for the correction. I went to my Midway catalog and viewed the pics of boolits from the 230-2R mold and they are rounded bands. I use the 452-228-1R double cavity that gives much sharper bands.
Joshua I agree. Way to much tin. No need for more than 3%. Tin does very little to add to hardness if this is why you are using so much. 2% should work just fine.
I would try just loading them with just the neck tension and no crimp first.

[mroliver77]

He has no antimony to harden his boolits! 10/1 or 20/1 was common practice not that long ago and it does harden the boolits nicely. Matter of fact I use tin/lead boolits in my 38-55. Here is how on looks after killing a pig last winter,
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/mroliver77/DSC00174.jpg