Reloading Rifle Bullets Question. Help!

[Erik]

Hi,

Previously, all I've ever reloaded was pistol ammunition. My Lee sets all came with a case expander die.

Today, I tried loading 7.62x39 with cast .312 boolits. The Lee set does NOT come with a case expander die. As a result, whenever I seat the cast boolit, the case shaves a bunch of lead off the boolit and basically ruins the boolit.

Am I doing something wrong or should I acquire some kind of case expansion die?

[docone31]

What size are the castings?
The die set should handle .312. You might also have to flare the case mouth.

[oneokie]

You need to "bell" the case mouth. Lyman makes a "M" die that is caliber specific. Lee makes a 2 piece set that covers everything from 22 cal up to 45.

[Erik]

Ah, a universal set. I'll buy that from Lee. Thanks!!

[462]

Yep, Lee's Universal Neck Expander Die works.

[Calamity Jake]

You also need to chamfer the case mouth on the inside. A lot of times that is all that is needed
but I sure like them "M" dies.

[atr]

yes, you have to bell the case mouth just slightly.....and remember you then have to smooth out the bell when the boolit is seated otherwise the cartridge will not chamber

[1hole]

Any "universal" expander demands that the cases be trimmed the same or the degree of flare will vary, often a lot.

The Lyman M die is not so flexible but it's much less case length dependant.

[Old Dog]

I reloaded my first 50 rounds of 30.06 ammo today with cast lead boolits.:-D

The bullets are from a Lyman 311291 molds with a gas check and sized to .309" OD. With gas check and lube they weigh in at 180 grains.

I used CCI 200 primers and 41 grains of IMR4831. Seated them to the crimp ring just "above" the top lube ring. I measured the OAL but can't remember it now (good thing I wrote all the info down in my logbook in the shed).

Doing it the way I did its a little more labor intensive than I like. I guess I need to get some additional stuff (dies) just for cast bullets.

This is what I did.
1) normal resizing, case cleaning, trim to length and priming process used
2) I used in inverted .223 case and rubber mallet to slightly "bell" the case mouth after I chamfered inside and outside
3) all the powder charges were weighed since the powder measure doesn't work so well with the IMR 4831 (I can live with that as it's close and the powder trickler works pretty well).
4) the bullets were seated with a standard Lee 30.06 seating die but the die wouldn't crimp the "bell" out of the case. I know the die will normally crimp my cases as I've loaded a fair amount of 30.06 in the last few months with 150 and 147 grain fmj boat tails. For some reason it just wouldn't crimp the cases that were belled.
5) I took the primer punch out of the 3rd die in the set, the collet neck sizer die, and put it in the press and set it up to remove that bell and give the necks a uniform crimp (just enough to get the bell out of the mouth).

Now I'm ready to go shoot.

If I get the right set of dies will they give me brass ready to load after the resizing step, or will I have to go through another step to get it ready? I guess what I'm asking is cast boolet rifle reloading like reloading for pistols - 3 dies, one for resizing, decapping, one to bell the case mouth slightly and one to seat and crimp?

Thanks.

[mooman76]

I don't believe any rifle brands bell the mouth on rifle brass. I know Lee doesn't. Probably because few people shoot/reload lead bullets in rifle. Lee makes a universal case mouth expander that will take care of pretty much every rifle case at least up to 45-70. So yes there is another step you have to do just like pistol. Lyman makes an M die I know little about but believe you need one for each caliber but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[MtGun44]

Only the Lee universal expander or the Lyman M dies, in my experience.

Might be something else out there, but I've never run across it since I started reloading
in 1968.

Bill

[dromia]

The lee expander die and the Lyman "M" die do different things.

The Lee is just a tapered expander that will flare the case mouth.

The "m" die creates a step within the case mouth for the boolit to sit on ensuring more concentric seating as well as flaring the case mouth.

The "m" dies are calibre specific but if you know anyone with lathe skills then bespoke plugs to your needs can be made cheaply.

I always use the "m" but have a Lee on hand that gets some use occasionally.

[watkibe]

The Lee universal expander die works great for me. I have used it on everything from 357 mag to 45-70. I'm thinking about getting another one of those small cheap Lee presses to just leave the expander set up all the time. No bottleneck rifle cartridge dies come with a case mouth expander, which is a must-have for reloading cast boolits, but this die does the trick. I seat bullets and crimp cases in separate steps. The Lee 3 die sets come with the factory crimp die, which is a sort of a collet. I use this die to crimp the previously expanded case mouth into the crimp groove in my cast boolits. Trimming and chamfering play a role in this process as well. Trimming keeps all the expansion the same and chamfering makes the case mouth smoother.

[Tom W.]

I have an RCBS expander for my 30 cal. boolits.

[TAWILDCATT]

I load 30/06 with hornady dies. but I load the 06 with a lyman truline jr.with M die.
the M die is the best.the truline I use to load 06 fired in my 1903 with lead.as I have one hole tapped 7/8 I can put the lee measure on.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[DLCTEX]

Old Dog, you may be flaring too much and it's hard to control using the method you did. The Lee flaring tool and a FCD (factory crimp die) will solve your problems. Use caution when using the FCD as it's easy to over do it. You want it adusted to just crimp and no more. Also the flare just needs to expand enough to start the boolit without shaving lead. Don't overwork your brass with either tool.

[watkibe]

Old Dog, you may be flaring too much and it's hard to control using the method you did. The Lee flaring tool and a FCD (factory crimp die) will solve your problems. Use caution when using the FCD as it's easy to over do it. You want it adjusted to just crimp and no more. Also the flare just needs to expand enough to start the boolit without shaving lead. Don't overwork your brass with either tool.

You hit the nail on the head there about the FCD. You can easily render a cartridge useless because it won't even chamber if you screw the FCD too far in. You have to be really cautious adjusting the die in until it does only what you want and no more. I put a cartridge in the press and raise the ram, and then start to screw the FCD into the press. I stop when the die contacts the case so I know where that point is. Then, I slowly screw the die in (I do it a quarter turn at a time) and crimp the case and then check it, repeating as needed. I stop as soon as the crimp is easily visible.
I tried the Lee FCD when it first came out, didn't adjust it right, and ruined cases. I thought the whole factory crimp die idea was bunk. Years later, I tried it again, but followed directions on how to adjust it. Big surprise, this time it worked great !

[lifeon2]

I have the factory crimp die for every caliber I reload for heck I consider it a necessary part of the process

[jlchucker]

Ah, a universal set. I'll buy that from Lee. Thanks!!

They are cheap enough for you to buy two. The expander plug in these dies is reversible for big and small cartridges. If you have two of these dies it will save you the effort of taking them apart and putting them back together when you go from one caliber and cartidge length to the next. I use both the lyman M die and the Lee. They set up a little differently, but both work well.

[watkibe]

They are cheap enough for you to buy two. The expander plug in these dies is reversible for big and small cartridges. If you have two of these dies it will save you the effort of taking them apart and putting them back together when you go from one caliber and cartidge length to the next. I use both the lyman M die and the Lee. They set up a little differently, but both work well.
You are right ! I did the same thing with the Lee Auto Prime. I could easily afford to buy two, and leave one set up for large primers, and the other set up for small primers.

[Nora]

Lyman makes an M die I know little about but believe you need one for each caliber but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Yes this is true. But I prefer them to just flaring or belling the end of the case mouth with a one size fits all.