Full wadcutters...

[twocool4u]

I purchased a no-name full wadcutter mold off of ebay. I have not shot any of the boolits yet, but I like the way they look.

I have noticed you can find wadcutter and semi-wadcutters everywhere, but full wadcutters are very rare. Why is this, is there a problem with this type of boolit?

[anachronism]

"Full wadcutter" is just another term for "wadcutter", used to differentiate them from the semi-wadcutter. There are also sub-species of wadcutters, such as hollowbase & button types, to name a couple.

[fredj338]

They have limited use, paper punching @ short to medium ranges. They do not feed in 9% of semiautos. The SWC has a broader use, close to far & still cuts a full caliber hole. Nothing wrong w/ the design, just more limited.

[Leftoverdj]

I purchased a no-name full wadcutter mold off of ebay. I have not shot any of the boolits yet, but I like the way they look.

I have noticed you can find wadcutter and semi-wadcutters everywhere, but full wadcutters are very rare. Why is this, is there a problem with this type of boolit?

I've never found the minor variations on WCs to make much difference. The swaged HBWC's do shoot a tiny bit better, probably because of greater uniformity, but it ain't much. Cast HBWC are a pain to cast, and I could not find an accuracy advantage. Some claim the button nose versions shoot better past 50 yards, but I have not verified that. A few designs have a short reduced diameter nose to allow them to be seated out a bit rather than flush. Only time I found any use for that was in a Star 28 that thought it was a target pistol. It handled 9x19 with the bullet seated out as though it were made to do so.

These days I very happily shoot the Lee TL WCs in .32 and .38 very happily. Nothing special about them, but they fill my needs.

[twocool4u]

What I am talking about is this style: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230345963207&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D230345963207%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1


I have a .357 that is basically the same shape. If it is not a full wadcutter, what is it?

[runfiverun]

thats a full wadcutter allright.
they come in different forms some are reversible and have a lube groove in the middle, others are directional,some have a small step to the nose,others have multiple lube grooves and multiple crimp grooves,
some swc's have a small raised area on the top others have an actual kinda nose others are in betwen.
i have 4+ 38 swc molds 2 are almost identical but have different thickness base bands and nose lengths. one has 3 lube grooves and a button nose and one has 3 lube grooves, multiple crimp grooves. and a button nose

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Wadcutters are designed to punch clean holes in a target making it easier to score especially when touching higher rings gets you extra points. (as opposed to roundnoses that punch ragged holes and you don't know exactly where the center is)But Wadcutters have the very worst possible aerodynamic shape possible and if the wind is up at the range you can be sure that your wadcutter will skid on the wind and miss the whole township,especially if it is a crosswind. The best possible shape is of course the pointy one. Phil Sharpe, a lengend in handloading once suggested the following experiment to demonstrate the fact. Take a length of board that is sawed to a point...put it in some water, push it and watch what happens. Then take another board that is sawed flat across one end and push that one in the water. You'll get the idea quickly. Round nosed boards and bullets do a little better and Semiwadcutters not quite as good as roundnoses, but at least they too cut clean holes like the full wads, and have some reasonably better aerodynamic shape + better smacking power because of the meplat. The 44 bullet you are considering on E-Bay is a full WC. It is also a heavy one. Of course it will work well if the right charge is worked up and it will be as accurate as you can make it. A general philosophy/general idea regarding WC's is not to use(usually) heavier ones for target work as they do generate a bit more recoil and paperpunchers don't favor that. The idea behind full length WC's is to usually deep seat them with reduced powder charges. Hollow based versions have the HB to allow for the deep seating and also to have the "skirt " expand to give a better gas seal. Some WC's have a flat face and some have a button nose. The reason/purpose for the button nose is an ongoing source of debate. My opinion is that it is designed for centering the WC in the sizer, but there are a few other theories around. Double end WC's can be loaded either end first. As for bevel bases that is another ongoing controversy with lots of theories advanced for and against. WC's work well in revolvers, but they will not feed in an automatic, maybe by luck once in a while, but certainly not reliably. The one exception is the (discontinued) S&W M52(38 spl) that was made to shoot only WC"S and as an owner of one of those I assure you that in seating the bullet you'ld better not have any lead projecting in the least beyond the case mouth or else. The M52's nickname was "The Targetmaster" and that it was. One point to consider is that in lubing WC's, one ring is usually enough to get the job done; more than that makes for more smoke than necessary and cruds up the gun. I shoot full WC's out of my 44Mags- S&W M29s. I make them by putting a cut off plug into one of the cavities of a 4 cav mold designed to cast a 250 grain version of the Lyman/RCBS 250 grainer. The resulting cast has no nose, is totally flat across the face and weighs 180 grains. With 5.5 grains of Unique and seated flush with the case mouth it shoots one hole at 25 yards off the bench all day. I hope that some or all of this info is/will be of some help/use to you. LLS

[Echo]

Colt also made a .38 Special auto, unlocked breech, recoil was slowed by grooves in the chamber. Some smiths made .38 conversions. My Clark .38 started life as a kit gun - Jim put a re-chambered .38 AMU barrel in it. Both of these digest WC's like the champions they are (although the 1911 .38 Special wasn't very successful). I load mine with either the Lyman-495 or the H&G 50, and it still behaves like an unforgiving bi**h, even w/factory. Have a little lapse in concentration that would throw a 9 with a .45, and you get a 7 with this little lovely.
(.38 AMU was a round developed by the Army Marksmanship Training Unit - basically a rimless .38 Special)
And +1 on the sweetness of the 52 - one sweet gun.

[Leftoverdj]

What I am talking about is this style: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230345963207&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D230345963207%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1


I have a .357 that is basically the same shape. If it is not a full wadcutter, what is it?

That's one I mentioned. It's a full WC, all right, but it seems to be one of those with a reduced nose section to extend into the cylinder. I have one I believe to be identical, but I'm not going out to the shop and sorting through my moulds to confirm that. I know mine marked Lyman does have the reduced nose. It's too small a reduction to see, but you can sure tell it when you try to seat one upside down.

[Leftoverdj]

I lucked into a Benelli auto in .32 S&W Long WC only maybe 20 years back. Function has been flawless, and it's a joy to shoot. Quite a few .32 Long WC autos have been made and sold in Europe as target pieces due to their caliber restrictions.

One of the major American gunwriters, maybe Nonte, converted a Ruger Standard Auto to .32 Long WC and mopped up on the Three Gun Circuit with it. Think they changed the rules on him. I've always wanted Ruger to pick up on that, but after 30-40 years, hope is dimming.

[Down South]

That’s not a no-name wad cutter. That’s an old Ideal wad cutter that is not made anymore, at least by Lyman. Blammer ran a group buy on one very similar here a while back. I almost bought one.
The nose is a bit smaller than the base so the nose will be inside the cylinder throat when chambered.
This is the link to Blammers GB on a WC that is almost identical. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=35783

BTW, Welcome to CB.

[Echo]

One of the major American gunwriters, maybe Nonte, converted a Ruger Standard Auto to .32 Long WC and mopped up on the Three Gun Circuit with it. Think they changed the rules on him. I've always wanted Ruger to pick up on that, but after 30-40 years, hope is dimming.

I believe the smith that did this was Dinan (may be mistaken) and he did it for a distaff shooter, possibly Trudy Backstrom, so she could wrap her small hands around the little Ruger grip rather than the larger 1911 grip for the CF matches. And I don't think it was very successful...
But it would be a gas to shoot!

[GLL]

Your "no-name" wadcutter is one of the very best available ! :) :)

Those IDEAL moulds are VERY hard to come by. I have two and find them perfect for .44Special loads out to 50 yards.
It differs from most WC in that it has a crimp groove and much of the bullet extends out of the case.

Here is a photo (the two on the right).

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/6D3BDA991524608/standard.jpg

[Wally]

Last month I shot at a 6" steell plate at 80 yards using a Lee 208 WC bullet loaded with 6.0 grains of Bullseye in a .44 Special case in a Ruger Superblackhawk..I hit the target with a full cylinderful. This was outdoors with some wind..mighty fine performance if you ask me.

Wally

[square butte]

I purchased what i think is an unusual full wadcutter mold about a month ago. I've not seen another like it in 30 years of looking at molds. Perhaps someone here can help identify it. It's marked C-452-515. Two cavity and thows abou .454 at approx. 225 grains. Looks almost identical to a Lyman 429-348. Has an unusual sprue plate and handle bolt set up with each bolt serving to hold handle and sprue plate or spue stud/stop pin. Each bolt is is stepped down to acomodate the handles and both are fragile as evidnced by the fact they are both broken. Not a great design. Lyman small handles work. My best guess is that it was made by Cramer, but can find no reference to the numbers on the mold in the Cramer info.. Wish I had a camera so i could post a picture of it. Have shot a double handfull as cast out of my S & W 25-2 with the oversize throats and they shoot quite well. Just gotta find some one to make me some new sprue plate/handle bolts to get it up to production. Anyone have a clue about the manufacturer?

[felix]

If Dinan did the work, the failure of success was not due to the gun. ... felix

[GLL]

twocool4u:

I misread your second post ! Sorry !

IDEAL also made a .357 version of that mould !

Jerry

[Hardcast416taylor]

Wally, I also like the LEE .44 wadcutter. I use it in both the .44 Special and the .44 mag. When I shoot with friends, yes I do have some friends, they refer to my .44 loads as "flying trash cans"! :cbpour: Robert

[Wally]

Robert,

I use 6.0 rains of Bullseye in the .44 Special & 8.0 in a .44 Magnum. As I have a .44 Special caliber pistol, I mainly load the Specials so I can use them in it. However the bullet is remarkably accurate in my Superblackhawk & my model 29. I have to baby the mold as it is discontinued. I have found it best to seat the bullet w/o crimpimpng then use a Taper Crimp ...this also works well with a .38 Caliber 148 grain WC.

Wally

[mallardsx2]

nice pics

[Echo]

Roger that, Felix - it certainly wasn't the workmanship that was at fault. It was just a lash-up that wasn't viable. I'm sure that Dinan worked hard to make it a good gun...