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dubber123
06-01-2009, 05:43 PM
I just read through the thread on paper rings left in the bbl. I still have questions. I just started paper patching for my 50-90 double rifle. I made the mould myself, and it is smooth sided, weight is 560 grains. Boolits are 50/50 WW-pure by volume. They seem to be shooting well, (I'm still regualting the rifle), but twice now I have had a 3/16" long ring attached to a fired case. This ring looked like a bunch of the patch had wrinkled up and torn off. This can't be helping consistancy.

The brass is not short. In fact the most exposed paper I can leave is maybe 1/16". Any more and it bunches up on the throat. Groove is .510" Patch diameter is .511+". Will knurling or roughening up the boolit help the patch to not slide down the boolit when transitioning from case to rifling? Thanks for any info.

303Guy
06-01-2009, 06:24 PM
First off, I am waaayyy to new to paper patching to answer you, but, I have had the same thing, a little ring of paper stuck to the case mouth - better than having it stay in the chamber! Is your boolit a bore rider or tapered? (I am thinking of a design with a taper from the ogive to just before the seating shank where I want it parallel for good seating reasons). Have you got pics of you boolit? And mold perhaps?

dubber123
06-01-2009, 06:43 PM
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/dubber123/IMG_3114.jpg Nothing elaborate, just a straight sided, bore ride design.

docone31
06-01-2009, 06:44 PM
I have always suspected, the paper ring is the area between the case mouth, and the rifleing. Literally, the pressure of fireing extrudes the paper as well as obturating the casting. The ring is paper that is sheared off and it fills the gap.
In other words, the termination of the case mouth to the beginning of the rifleing, there is a little gap the thickness of the of the space. The chamber will be the same diameter to the rifleing entry. Where the brass ends, the patch is smaller in diameter than the outer limits of the case.
It makes an hard ring of paper.
Kinda like an O-ring.

dubber123
06-01-2009, 06:51 PM
It is very short from the end of the case to the start of the rifling, almost no room for a full diameter front drive band. This is one of the biggest reason to go with the bore ride design, as almost none of my other moulds would fit without deep seating the boolits.

Perhaps a gentler leade into the rifling would help, but I'm not ready to start monkeying with my chambers now that I have it on the run, so to speak. I am hoping that giving the patch something to grip onto on the boolit sides will help tha patch make the transition.

Lead pot
06-01-2009, 07:06 PM
A short case will cause you paper rings and lead rings.
But in your case I think it starts when you feed the round in the chamber when you say it's wrinkled.
Most chambers now days have a 45 degree chamber end before the lead starts and that will catch on the jacket and pushes it back with your patched bullets that are at groove diameter and in your case it is over groove diameter.
Most PP chambers in original chambers had a tapered free bore lead and not that 45 degree chamber end with that long tapered free bore to groove diameter made a smooth transition into the lead.
A PP bullet with the chambers now made are not the best for patching a bullet to groove diameter.
I read a lot on this forum with you guys Patching your bottle neck military rifles to groove diameter and over that tells me that you are seating that bullet way deep in your bottle neck case down past the case neck into the shoulder of the case that is death with a PP bullet, because the bullet upsetting before it starts on it's way down the barrel and when that bullet swages back down to thew case mouth diameter it strips the patch off at the point where the case neck starts and also spikes the chamber pressure.
I know some will say that smokeless powder wont upset a bullet, well your wrong it will upset a copper jacketed bullet too.

Lead pot
06-01-2009, 07:10 PM
Dubber I for got to mention.

Fully chamber one of your rounds once and extract it with a cleaning rod if yo have to and look at your patch and see what it looks like.
If your putting a crimp on the case mouth even a slight one that just holds the bullet from falling out , that slight crimp will cut the patch when it gets fired and cut the rear portion of the patch.

dubber123
06-01-2009, 07:52 PM
Dubber I for got to mention.

Fully chamber one of your rounds once and extract it with a cleaning rod if yo have to and look at your patch and see what it looks like.
If your putting a crimp on the case mouth even a slight one that just holds the bullet from falling out , that slight crimp will cut the patch when it gets fired and cut the rear portion of the patch.

It wrinkles/cuts the patch. The distance from case mouth to the 45° taper is so short, I can leave at most, 1/16" of paper showing. I have just been trimming flush with the case mouth for simplicity. I just knurled a few boolits, and will see if that helps.

I basically just straighten out the bell, no crimp. I made a die with the chamber reamer, and use it as a sort of taper crimper to iron out the end of the case.

felix
06-01-2009, 09:01 PM
It will also upset the barrel as everything else expands. ... felix

windrider919
06-01-2009, 10:15 PM
dubber, then your patch does not extend beyond the cylindrical bullet side and onto the nose ogive? The patch is supposed to cover all the bullet surface that could touch the barrel. The best seating depth is when the rifling just touches the bullet, the case mouth just grabs the PP bulet snugly without damaging the patch.

next, what diameter is the bullet without a patch?

And what is the throat diameter in your chamber, how much clearance between the PP and the throat. If it is too small it could be catching the patch and pushing it backward.

I do not think you should be trimming the patch close back to the case mouth, then what centers the bullet if it is slightly cocked in the throat. If the bullet is touching the rifling that will center the bullet but if not the patch works to center.

I too had problems with rings but found it was too long a chamber. had the barrel shoulder set back .020 (twenty thou) and a better finish reamer used to make a tighter chamber. No rings now.

docone31
06-01-2009, 10:20 PM
That is what I figuired also.
When I patch, I bring the patch up to just where the nose begins the transition to the sides.
It does take some tweaking to make a good patch. Once it is there though, I never went back.
It did take some tweaking.

405
06-01-2009, 11:02 PM
I have always suspected, the paper ring is the area between the case mouth, and the rifleing. Literally, the pressure of fireing extrudes the paper as well as obturating the casting. The ring is paper that is sheared off and it fills the gap.
In other words, the termination of the case mouth to the beginning of the rifleing, there is a little gap the thickness of the of the space. The chamber will be the same diameter to the rifleing entry. Where the brass ends, the patch is smaller in diameter than the outer limits of the case.
It makes an hard ring of paper.
Kinda like an O-ring.

Yep, that is the way I think it happens also. It seems to be more common in those chambers that are not stepped between end of case mouth (chamber end) and entry into bore... there is a taper between end of chamber and entry into bore. I've seen quite a few of the older (original BP guns) with that tapered type of throat. Of course the other condition that has been known to leave the paper ring is the short case in even a modern style, stepped throat. There may be other causes but the tapered throat or the too short case seem to be the most common.

Lead pot
06-02-2009, 12:04 AM
405.
I'm a little confused on the stepped throat you mentioned.
I never seen a step in the throat, can you explain what a step in the throat is?

405
06-02-2009, 12:55 AM
Nothing more than a conventional, modern style throat. The "step" begins as a fairly sharp transition between the end of the chamber at the maximum theoretical end of the case mouth (beginning of the throat). Then in an ideal world that throat diameter will be about the same as the groove diameter and continue into the bore to where only the leading edges, entry into the lands are tapered. In many of the older style (BP era) throats I've looked at there is no sharp end to the chamber at the beginning of the throat. The full diameter of the chamber at the end of the neck (case mouth) is tapered on into the bore. That leaves a "wedge" shaped free bore that will always be larger than the bullet diameter immediately ahead of the case mouth. Since that wedge shaped space is available, it is theorized that a paper patched bullet, as it is obturated (mostly at the base) at the beginning of it travel forward, will fill that space and "nip" off the paper ring in question.

The same thing can happen if a case is too short in a conventional, modern style throat which leaves a parallel sided space (not wedge shaped) where the PP bullet will try to fill by obturation before entering the throat... likewise leaving a paper ring.

Even when cutting conventional, parallel sided throats the throat portion of the reamer or the separate throat reamer can be oversize and leave a throat diameter quite a bit larger than groove diameter. Again this is a headache for most cast bullet shooters and must be taken into account when sizing bullets. But the chamber dimensions in the neck and the wall thickness of the case can limit bullet size compensation. It would likewise be a problem for a paper patched bullet.

Sure would be easier to show a schematic than explain with verbage :) The differences show very clearly in chamber drawings of the types of throats.

All the possible causes of leaving the paper ring after firing may be best guess, but deductive reasoning suggests that the two (possibly three) mentioned are reasonable guesses, I guess. :???:

dubber123
06-02-2009, 06:43 AM
405 makes a pretty good description of what my chambers look like. Mine has a VERY short cylindrical area just in front of the case mouth, followed by a 45° taper into the bore. My bbls. slug at .501" bore, (prolly a little looser at the breech end, as it has tapered bores), so I am sizing to .501". I have enough boolit that it is well up in the bore for centering when chambered.

I get the slightest hint of engraving on the boolit noses, for about 5/16" on the sides. I can't leave any paper at all showing, as it will bunch up and tear when chambering. It makes chambering hard, extraction too. Accuracy seems to be fine, I just don't want the rings possibly causing flyers, so I want to eliminate them if possible.

montana_charlie
06-02-2009, 11:45 AM
There is a long discussion here ( http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=44765&highlight=leade ) about the internal topography of a rifle barrel. It has pictures, and shows how things like chamber step, freebore, and leade form the launch pad for a cartridge.

There was an attempt to agree on a rational way to describe a chamber using traditional 'names' for the various elements. But LG insisted that only the terminology used by 'a respected gunwriter' was appropriate...and only when used in the way he (that writer) uses it.

So, while you may wish to disregard the 'terminology' part of the thread, the pictures do show that 45 degree chamber step.
CM

dubber123
06-02-2009, 12:27 PM
I just tried to chrono 2 more. I missed the front lens with the first shot, the second recorded over 3,300 fps. Hmmm, not bad for a 560 gr. 50-90..... I'm guessing the muzzle blast reached the screens before the boolit. I had the same problem with my 50-70. I had to back way off. BTW 1 of the 2 had 3/4 of a paper ring left attached to a case.

45 2.1
06-02-2009, 01:57 PM
Make sure the patch goes onto/over the boolits ogive enough so it doesn't peel the patch back when chambered. You do NOT want the patch just on the parallel portion of the boolit, it needs to go onto the nose some also. Seat the patched boolit so a fouled bore will make dirty marks on the patch from the lands at the rifling origin when chambered.

405
06-02-2009, 02:35 PM
Yep for every detail there will be a few different terminologies used. Sorry about the confusion over the different parts of a throat. :coffee:

Yes, there is a good side to paper rings.... you can see and identify them. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

The only time I can get rings left on the case mouth at will is by shooting a grease groove paper patched bullet thru an old style tapered throat. In all other instances they show up at random if I goof up or experiment a little too much.

Paper patching adds another variable to the cast bullet scenario. It can get frustrating when the so called flyers out number those that stay in the group and there is NO evidence left over with which to work on a solution. Then it can become tedious.... changing one variable at a time until by process of elimination the culprit is found. I have no doubt that in some PP loads that don't act right there is a ring or hunk of paper torn off during the transition from case to full bore engagement but there is no evidence left... just errant bullet flight. The paper shred (evidence :)) is blown out the bore with the rest of the powder gases, solids, lube, wads and bullet.

But, on the other hand when things are put together right, a paper patched bullet over BP will shoot! Some of the best groups I've ever shot out of the Sharps or RB rifles have been shot with swaged, paper patched bullet over BP.

dubber123
06-02-2009, 02:50 PM
Make sure the patch goes onto/over the boolits ogive enough so it doesn't peel the patch back when chambered. You do NOT want the patch just on the parallel portion of the boolit, it needs to go onto the nose some also. Seat the patched boolit so a fouled bore will make dirty marks on the patch from the lands at the rifling origin when chambered.

If you study the shape of my boolit in the pic, you will see anything over the ogive is impossible. It is bore diameter right up to about 1/4" from the nose. I have only shot it a little at 75 yds., and some plinking at 100 yds. I didn't notice any flyers, so maybe I am worrying over nothing.?

Being it is snug in the bore, it should be guided well. If even a random, (but sufficent) amount of patch stays on each boolit to seal the bore, perhaps it won't matter? Each bbl. shot around 2" at 75 yds., and that is with the poor triggers, and a so-so rest. Maybe my knurling will hold it to the boolit enough to at least minimize the rings.

It sounds as though re-throating to a differnt style might help, but unless it is patched over the ogive, I might never succeed in eliminating the rings.

docone31
06-02-2009, 02:59 PM
If the rings come out with each cartridge, no biggee. Sooner or later the paper will make shiney the entry into the rifleing.
If the rings remain in the chamber, they will cease to grow as they reach diameter. You might have difficulty removeing them, or chambering with them in place, sooner or later.
Paper, will reach a point where it is non-compressible.

montana_charlie
06-02-2009, 03:10 PM
If you study the shape of my boolit in the pic, you will see anything over the ogive is impossible.
Post a picture of one of your loaded rounds. I am still confused about how far out on the bullet your patch goes.
CM

405
06-02-2009, 04:39 PM
dubber,
You said .510" groove and .511"+ PP diameter. Couple of things to try before re-throating. It may not be a problem with the throat! I know that in both my Montana Sharps which have short throats, tapered type smooth sided PP bullets shoot very well. I shoot either near pure lead swaged bullets or very soft cast.

I cut the paper width so that the leading edge is about .1-.2" past the break between shank and ogive (onto the ogive). This helps ease the paper thru the transition into the bore. Also, the PP diameter is .453-4". That allows the bullets to be seated out enough so that the leading edge of the paper is lightly engraved by the lands. Both guns have a bore diameter near .450" with groove at .458". The PP diameter ends up about half way between bore and groove. I think the soft bullets obturate enough to fill and seal the bore. I always use either a .030" or .060" fiber wad between powder and bullet.

So you might try sizing down some bullets to where the PP diameter is something like .505". This may allow seating the bullets out just a little farther and get the nose and some of the patched portion into the lands. Dunno, just a thought.

dubber123
06-02-2009, 05:00 PM
Post a picture of one of your loaded rounds. I am still confused about how far out on the bullet your patch goes.
CM

I have always used my bros. camera, and it's Kaput right now. But, I can give this: The bore sized section, (.501"), is .900" long. .580" of this is in the case, and it is this amount, (.580") that is patched. I just have been trimming flush with the case neck, as anything left beyond that hangs up when seated. There is .32" of un patched, bore ride section in front of the case, (+ the short round nose).

dubber123
06-02-2009, 05:06 PM
405, some of my last post may contain some useful info on how my boolit looks. It is basically ALL bore sized shank, it's almost a wadcutter. If I sized down to .505" patched diameter, I would be .005" undersize. Were you thinking a soft alloy would slug up to fill the grooves?

I am already concerned my alloy may be too soft, it's 50/50 WW-Pure lead by volume, (equal parts). I just chronoed 1 at 1,735 fps. and I will likely nudge it up a little higher. I would think a pure lead slug would turn into a pie plate upon impact.

A more tapered boolit sounds like what I would need for a proper PP boolit. That is beyond my skill to cobble up, I would have to have one cut.

405
06-02-2009, 06:31 PM
dubber,
Yes, a softer alloy might not shoot well at such high velocity. You'll just have to experiment to see. Of course if you drop vel down a little a softer alloy may shoot better and still expand nicely and give enough penetration on game. With a double rifle long range is not the issue- I'd think accuracy and balance between penetration and energy/upset.

Anyway, as to the question of obturation of a particular bullet to fill and seal bore. Again that may be a balance between your desired velocity and how a softer PP bullet acts in the gun. In shooting blackpowder loads with paper patched bullets seems that many of the best shooters use a soft alloy and a paper patched bullet of final diameter that falls somewhere between bore diameter and groove diameter. The very old original paper patch bullets were usually sized in that zone... somehwere around bore diameter up to just under full groove diameter. 1) the softer alloy would obturate to fill bore. 2) the smaller diameter bullet would still chamber in a fouled bore. Naturally blackpowder loads usually don't get to the velocity levels you're talking about.

I'm not sure of how well a harder alloy paper patch bullet would shoot if sized small.... between bore and groove diameter. Just have to shoot-n-see. That .505" figure I gave assumes that would be between bore and groove diameter in your gun?

Another thought... My other assumption is that you're designing this load around a dangerous game idea??
If so, then you might also consider trying a gas checked cast bullet with the smokeless higher velocities. In that case for sure you'd want a final bullet diameter of about .510-511".

Just some more rambling thoughts :)

dubber123
06-02-2009, 06:39 PM
405, very good info, and some insight into how they work. I will have to think upon how to cut a slightly smaller mould to try, or look into some smaller size dies and see if I can squeeze these down. I may do another gun, likely a 50-70, and I may load BP in that one, so your info is appreciated.

It's really more of a play toy, but it's no fun missing. I am actually VERY encouraged by how these PP boolits shot for my first attempt. I read many posts where guys fought a long battle to get them figured out. I loaded a few more, and I think I may have actually had a slight crimp on them. I backed off the seat die, and used the taper crimp to iron out the sides after the M die expands it.

I may take it on a bear hunt when it's done, but it would be a black bear hunt, and probably any .50 cal boolit would suffice. This is my "big" load, I have a little 390 gr. wadcutter that will likely get shot alot for practice.

docone31
06-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Just get a sizing die. A Lee Push Thru should do the trick.
If nothing else, it makes everything even.

dubber123
06-02-2009, 06:51 PM
I got a pair of push throughs, a .501" that is right on .501", and a .510" thats actually .511". I was concerned about the .510" being oversize, but I re-read some posts, and .001" or so over groove seemed acceptable, so I have been using it. If I wanted to try the .505" final diameter, I will need to squeeze the boolits down about .005"to .006" more.

docone31
06-02-2009, 07:31 PM
If you wrap at .505, then size, you will be all smiles.
You will be suprised at how tough that wrap is.

dubber123
06-02-2009, 08:10 PM
If you wrap at .505, then size, you will be all smiles.
You will be suprised at how tough that wrap is.

Even though that will be .005" smaller than my groove diameter? I do assume you mean .505" as a final, ready to shoot diameter.

montana_charlie
06-02-2009, 08:45 PM
dubber,
Here's an off-the-wall idea.

If you pulled the decapping pin out of a 45/70 full-length resizing die, you would have an interior that starts at a bit over .500" at the bottom end...and tapers to a little less than .480" at the top.

If you were to push a .501" bullet up into a die like that, it would 'swage' the nose into a mild taper. You may not have to go very deep, just enough to affect part (or all) of the .320" in front of the case mouth.

You might adjust the setup so you push the bullet in till the nose touches...then go (say) another quarter inch.

Pushing a bullet partway into a reloading die is a weird thought, but it shouldn't hurt anything.
With the decapper out, you should be able to push the bullet back out with light tap on a flat ended punch...and not seriously deform the nose.

Depnding on how much force is required to push the bullet in...you may need to run it through your .501" sizing die if the body swells up.

Worth a try...?

CM

docone31
06-02-2009, 09:03 PM
Yeah, final size to either .505, or 506 if that is what you are looking for.
When I final size my patches for my Smelly, I take them from .318 to .314 without issue. Quite easy.
You should find the same true with your patches.

dubber123
06-02-2009, 09:59 PM
MC, I will give it a try. I just cast and sized a bunch to .501". I will see if I can taper it. I will have to taper quite a ways, about .4" by guesstimate.

John Boy
06-02-2009, 11:22 PM
This ring looked like a bunch of the patch had wrinkled up and torn off.
Dubber, are you chamfering the inside of the case mouth on your brass? Could be and only a guess, when the round is being chambered, if there is no chamfer on the mouth - the paper may be being torn at this point with the pressure against the bullet towards the case.

With a chamfered case and a slight crimp to remove the bell, I've had no paper cut as you describe

Personally, I get better results with reloads using a 22 1/2 degree reamer instead of the 45 degree one.

405
06-02-2009, 11:27 PM
dubber,
MC's idea is a good one to try. I needed a push thru sizer of a particular size one time. Of course it was in the middle of one of the huge gaps in Lee's regular sizers so no way to hone out a smaller one. I found a case sizing die for another caliber that was close in the neck specs to what I needed. I already had an assortment of Lee rams that were close enough. I cut the cartridge sizing die off with a chop saw about 3/8" above the shoulder. Honed out the neck sizer portion to exactly the size I needed. Presto custom push thru sizer. Lee is currently running many months behind for custom push thrus. I think with some tuning and some good lube you shouldn't have a problem pushing a bullet part way in then back out of a particular die to get a little taper on the nose.

I mentioned earlier about the possibility of trying a GC bullet in your gun for maybe some reliable accuracy at higher velocity. Here's a link to a source.... as an option. When you click to the page look at the 50 cal NEI 455 gr GC bullet at 15 BHN. Might work for you? http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page7.html

As far as splattering a soft bullet on game without penetration. I know a pure lead roundball at high vel and/or at close range can do that. The only thing close to what your using I've had experience with in shooting big game is a pure lead 50 cal 370 gr Maxiball out of a muzzleloader at about 1300 fps max. MV. I've shot a couple of large deer (250 lb) and a large black bear (350lb) with that. Every bullet passed completely thru each. A couple of the bullet paths went thru dense tissue and some bone. You shouldn't need to worry about penetration on such game with your type bullet even in a softer alloy at least in a slightly lower velocity range <1500 fps. Really big bears +800 lb or tough African game might be a different story :mrgreen:

303Guy
06-03-2009, 05:41 AM
I made the mould myself, and it is smooth sided, weight is 560 grains.I missed that bit. You don't actually have a problem then. I did get paper rings but solved that with boolit shape. Tapered! I have just fired a 8.20mm heel diam patched boolit through a No4 Lee Enfield. No paper rings there. The largest portion of the throat is only 8.05mm. The patch diam at the nose was 7.95mm. Bore diam is 7.7mm. Groove diam is 7.95mm

(Translating into 'American')
Heel diam - .323
Nose diam - .313
Bore diam - .303
Groove diam - .312

So, I am suggesting that although your chamber may have some quirks causing paper rings, you also have the solution with boolit design right there in your hands!:Fire:

dubber123
06-03-2009, 11:58 AM
Well, I will try and hit everybody, John Boy, yes, the cases are chamfered, I did feel a slight "bump" at the end of the seat stroke, so I backed off the seating die body and just use the taper crimp now.

405, thanks for the info, they have some nice looking designs. I can see me getting another mould cut for sure. I was shooting 450 gr. plain base boolits at a touch over 1,900 fps. with surprisingly little leading, and this was with only 2 of the 3 grooves lubed. (I had these cast for my 50-70 pistol, and didn't need the extra lube). The GC design shown would surely work fine.

MC, I tried the 45-70 die trick. It works!.... Sorta. I cleaned the die body, and lubed a boolit with RCBS case lube for extra insurance. I ran a boolit in, and it went as easy as any push through. I put an oak dowel down the die to pop it out. Broke the dowel. Tried again, same thing. Ended up using a steel punch, but got it out. The boolit nose didn't take it well, but it shows I could get .013" of taper if I wanted. If I didn't go in so far, maybe they would come out easier. I Should give it another try.

dubber123
06-03-2009, 07:45 PM
I knurled some boolits last night and patched as usual. I had been losing quite a few during sizing by the patch sliding off the smooth boolit sides. After the knurling, I lost none! I loaded 2 for chronographing, and without trimming to the case neck like I had before, they dropped right in, and showed some rifling marks on the paper. This has never happened before. I can only assume the knurling gave the patch somewheres to go, and slightly reduced my overall diameter. I still got a paper ring with 1 shot though.

405
06-03-2009, 09:35 PM
dubber,
Since I pretty much stick with smooth tapered bullets for patching not much help about knurling, etc. One thing you can do if you haven't already is to either slug or cerrosafe cast your chambers/throats. I assume your double is open breeched to where you can easily access the chamber area with a short rod? Either way (slugging or casting) will work. If open breeched, then a tapered 55 cal (more or less) soft lead slug can be driven in then driven back out in reverse to where it will show the entire throat area. If not then use some cerrosafe to get a good detailed picture of the chamber ends & throats. May help in selecting next approach?

303Guy
06-04-2009, 03:46 PM
dubber
Did you mention what paper you are using? (Not that I can give any advice!) It's just that I have had paper rings left on the case mouth and I have had one ring on the catch cloth. But I am pushing such oversize boolits through the bore that they actually swage on the chamfer leading into the throat. With tracing paper, no problem. That stuff is strong. I do have a sizer die of sorts running now and I shall be testing note pad paper patches, sized, later on.

dubber123
06-04-2009, 05:06 PM
Just regular white printer paper, cheap stuff. It's not very rugged when wet, but it does have a bit of a stretch. It seems to bond well when dry. It's thicker than I need, but I have neglected to measure a dry, but unsized boolit, so I don't know how much the wetting/stretching actually thins it.

The knurling helped tremendously with chambering a round with exposed paper, but as long as I cannot go over the ogive, I think my problem will persist. Simply wrong design for patching.

303Guy
06-16-2009, 04:32 AM
I gave up on printer paper because it was so fragile when wet. Note pad paper is cheap enough and much stronger. Nowhere as strong as tracing paper!

dubber123
06-28-2009, 08:11 AM
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/dubber123/IMG_0014.jpg Only 50 meters, but this is how these paper patchers shoot.

303Guy
06-28-2009, 04:07 PM
Beauty!:drinks:

Handsome cartridge too!:Fire:

Sheeze - I gotta get out there and test some of mine!:roll:

RMulhern
06-28-2009, 05:33 PM
In short....when shooting all-lead cast bullets with BP...if a paper ring is left in the chamber or either at the mouth of the case...the bullet gets the *** end upset at ignition and as it enters the bore it gets swaged down thereby cutting the patch off where the patch folds over the base of the bullet! The folded over portion gets blown out the barrel and the ring is left at one of the two above stated locations!