30 cal check problems

[uncle joe]

I need some advice about a new mold and problem I am having with it. I pm'd Blammer about the issue and he suggested I post on the forum to get more opintions on it. Here is the pm so I don't have to repeck it all over.

Originally Posted by uncle joe
Blammer
I bought 1000 30 cal gator checks not long after I joined CB's. I have used them several times on some old 311291 hp boolits my dad cast who knows when, they are very old. Then go on and seem to work fine. I use a lyman 45 sizer with a 311 die. My problem is that I just bought a 311041 so I could continue loading 30 cal for my 30 30 and 3006. The gator checks won't work through the lyman. They go on the boolit but when I try to seat them with the sizer and lube the boolit they won't go through the die, they stop and won't even go into the die. I am somewhat a novice with gas checks. I use the 44 gatorchecks with good results, but these won't work. Dad left me some 30's but I don't know if they are lyman or hornady, but they work fine. Can you see anything I'm doing wrong? My 311041 casts a 309 boolit, so most of the boolit don't even touch the die, only at the mold seam.
Any ideas or advice?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Joe Embry
I am going to get the measurments of the old and new boolit shank, the sizer id, id's of both gc brands. will post results later.
As I told DJ, any advice or help will be appreciated.

[oneokie]

Is your sizer die one of the early/old models with the square shoulder instead of the tapered lead in?

[BHLUA]

i say trash the sizer

[uncle joe]

Nolan
I think it's got a taper. It is the oldest die I have, but I think it does have a taper, that's how I'm able to dig them out.

Bhlua
Cant get rid of it. It works to good, besides it's older than me and I know dad didn't get anywhere near wearing it out. Besides them thangs are expensive to replace. :mrgreen:

[Down South]

Is the gas check shank on the boolit long enough that the GC is not bottoming out?

[Doc Highwall]

How about annealing the gas checks to make them softer.

[Bret4207]

I would suspect an oversized GC shank. Gator checks are of high quality, they probably aren't the issue. You could try a different sizer die. If it's an older style die that could be the issue.

[fatnhappy]

I would suspect an oversized GC shank. Gator checks are of high quality, they probably aren't the issue.

exactly what i was thinking. Do you have a micrometer to measure the shanks with?

[Blammer]

make sure the GC and the bottom of the bullet go into the sizing die first, not last.

[Leftoverdj]

Joe, I'd make a taper right at the entrance to the sizing die. That will not affect the sizing portion of the die but will ease entrance and eliminate any burs or sharp edges the GC is snagging on.

[runfiverun]

i'd definately measure everything i am thinking the shank is larger on the new boolits.
if you had a problem on both types i'd look elsewhere,die,then checks cause if gator don't work i doubt anyother type will.

[oneokie]

A simple way to check if your sizer die is tapered or has the square shouldered step-use a something to push the ejector pin down in the die. Run a toothpick down the side of the die to feel for a step. Or remove the H&I die and clean the snot out of it and see what it looks like inside. Somewhere on this site is a thread or post about someone having similar problems.

Did you examine any of the checks that you had to dig out to see if there was a "ring" anywhere on the check indicating that it had hung up on something in the die?

[uncle joe]

WOW
you guys are coming up with ideas faster than I can process them, Thanks
Here are the dimensions on everything.
old boolit shank = .275
new boolit shank = .279
gator od .316 id .280
old gc od .302 id .276
old boolit and old gc should be .275+.026=.301
old boolit and gator check .275+.036 = .311
new boolit old gc .279+.026 =.305
new boolit and gator check .279+.036+.315
sizer die number .311 actual dia .311

There is a very prominent taper in the top of the sizer die,

Down south I didn't check that dimension, but that's a good idea.

Doc that may be something I do to salvage these gc's thanks hadn't thought of that.

I know the gator checks are a lot better quality than the old ones I have, they weigh probably twice as much, and are better made.
as far as I know up side up and bottom down is the only way to size on one of these machines, die plunger is flat and would mess up a boolit nose.

this is why I think this is the best forum on the net, lots of great experience and free flowing information here.
Thanks UJ

[oneokie]

Buy a top punch for the 311041.

[Doc Highwall]

When I annealed my gas checks the first time I put them in a cast iron ash tray that looked like a frying pan and thought that I had done a good job with a propane torch, but when sizing the boolits some would go a little harder then others. I re did them and now I can not feel any difference when sizing. I think the cast iron acted too much as a heat sink causing the problem along with too many gas checks in the pan at once.

[uncle joe]

Buy a top punch for the 311041.

I would, but what size to buy? the 311 I have doesn't touch the boolit now. If I buy one it would just be for the gas check, (gator). The old checks and boolit go through the one I have now. Should I get one for just seating the gator checks? If so how much under the 315 should it be to seat the check?
JE
sorry I just noticed your post said top punch not size die. The top punch I have now is rounded and works well with the 311291 I have and didn't seem to deform the 311041 any.

[oneokie]

My bad, Joe. Was thinking you were sizing nose down.

[Blammer]

I measured my Gator checks too and the OD is the same as yours .316, my Lyman 45 sizer is for .311 dia and it tapered a bit on the beginning. It takes a bit of "oomph" to get them started but then afterwards they sized just fine and came out well too.

I have several diff 30 cal boolits with diff dia bases and all seemed to work well for me.

Sorry I'm out of ideas at the moment.

[uncle joe]

I tried annealing some of the checks and put them on a few boolits. SUCCESS
Now just how long should I heat them and how hot is to hot. I baked off some of the shiney, but don't really care. I just don't know how long to heat them. They went through the sizer pretty good, just a couple of bump bumps and they were done.
Thanks again for all the help.
Thanks to you Blammer for all the back and fourth pm answering.
JE:drinks:

[Blammer]

your welcome! glad you got it fixed!

[runfiverun]

anneal them the same as you would your cartridge brass bout 615* time isn't the issue temp is.

[Doc Highwall]

When I re annealed mine, I let them get dull red for about 2 seconds and they went through the sizer easy. I do not think you can over anneal a gas check, but you can over anneal a case that it will become dangerous. With my gas checks annealed this way with a 30:1 alloy I have been able to shoot a lot of groups under 3/4" at 100 yards that now I am testing at 200 yds with my smallest group for 6 shots at 1.227". Anneal 50 or so and give it a try I think you will be pleased.

[uncle joe]

I'm just pleased that I can use them.
Thanks for the info.
JE