Winchester or Starline?

[jimdvan]

I have a Uberti 1876 Winchester in 45-60 enroute. I'm going to make brass from 45-70. I almost exclusively use Winchester 45-70 brass in my Sharps but the Starline is about half the price. What's the real difference between the two? I know Winchester usually holds a little more powder. Is it better to the point of passing on Starline?

[Maximilian225]

I cannot speak for the 45-70, but my experience with other calibers is Starline is superior brass hands down. Flash Holes have no burr, cases are all very close on length. If they made it for bottleneck rifles it's what I would prefer.

-Max
:Fire:

[johnly]

I really like Starline brass, and would choose it over WW brass which I also like. Case capacity may be important with BP loads, but with smokeless it is less of a concern.

John

[Jon K]

Let me disagree with these guys.........Starline is harder not better. It needs constant annealling, sooner than other brass.
If the case won't seal, how can it be superior? Smokeless or BP, the elasticity of the brass makes a difference.
I like Starline 32-20 brass, it's annealled and holds up well, but the bigger brass 38-55 and bigger..........hard as a rock. WHY???

One sure way to find out..........try it.

Jon

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I prefer Winchester or Remington for my 45/70's , I use a lot of it. That is just my personal preference. I do agree that the Starline is "Tough". Try them both. I get a lot of reloads from the Remington , more than the Winnie.

[NickSS]

I use Remington, Winchester, Starline and Federal 45-70 brass. Remington does not have to be annealed until after five or six full length resizing same for Winchester. Starline makes their brass harder an purpose so that they can be loaded to hot levels. So I anneal it before I start loading it with black powder or light smokeless loads. Works great. In fact the only brass that I have had trouble with is nickel plated Federal brass. I use this stuff only for hot smokeless loads for hunting. The cases do not last long only three or four firings.

[Grapeshot]

I have a Uberti 1876 Winchester in 45-60 enroute. I'm going to make brass from 45-70. I almost exclusively use Winchester 45-70 brass in my Sharps but the Starline is about half the price. What's the real difference between the two? I know Winchester usually holds a little more powder. Is it better to the point of passing on Starline?

A couple of years ago I picked up a Chapparell .45-60. I had a stash of Federal Nickled .45-70 cases that I shortened and use for my .45-60. I haven't had any proplems with them using any of the BP Subs or IMR 3031.

I also used twenty PMC .45-70 cases shortened to .45-60 specs with great results. I use my Winchester cases for the Marlin and I have NO Starline cases to compare this process with.

[ph4570]

I just got some Starline brass in 45-70. I use light loads with 16 Gr Unique for target plinking. Based on comments here it seems I should anneal the Starline before using in light loads to better ensure a case seal. I have annealed bottle-neck case necks but never a full case. Am I correct in assuming the full Starline case should be annealed? Can this be done in an oven or do I need to torch the cases?

Thanks.

[ph4570]

With regard to my previous questions -- I think one should only anneal the case mouth maybe down about as far as the boolit seats. Correct?

I have been using Rem cases and have never annealed. No case cracks and good accuracy after maybe 10 reloads on 300 cases.

[Jim]

Starline.

[JesterGrin_1]

All the info needed is on the Starline web site. But here you go. :)

How can I soften case mouth to allow case to properly seal when using black powder
in 45-70, 45-90, 45-2.6 (45-100) and 40-65?
1.) Be aware this is not always necessary. Only if cases are extremely dirty and a lot of unburned powder is consistently found in chamber would you need to anneal.

2.) First place case in proper container filled with approximately 1 inch of water so head of case is submerged in water. (Reason is you only want to soften mouth of case and not head area as this can ruin strength at base and primer pocket where case must remain rigid to handle pressure.)

3.) Next heat case mouth (approx. top 1/2 inch of case) uniformly just to where it begins to turn a dullred and then knock over in water. A propane torch is usually used for heating device. MOST IMPORTANT: Remember if case gets too hot they are ruined and there is no way to make hard again. So, try a few out and get a feel for the proper color and softness required for your application. If they get bright red, you probably went too far.

I used to use Remington brass for my 45-70 and have had no problems with them up to this point. But that was mainly Black Powder. Now I have a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 and still use the brass and will until it fails. But I got a new RD460-425Gr mold and to be honest I do not shoot light loads. And felt maybe I should start with some new brass just for these rounds but then I had sticker shock lol. The Remington 45-70 brass is now over $64.00 per 100. And I have read so many good things about StarLine Brass I thought I would take a look. And found I could get 500 45-70 cases shipped to my door for $180.00 as Starline does include the price of shipping into the cost. So lets see I saved about oh $140.00 + over the Remingtons and for me that is not chump change lol.

Sorry I have not had the time to load any of the StarLine as of yet. But again they look good. :)

[insanelupus]

I prefer the Starline brass whenever they make it for whatever caliber I'm shooting. It is much more consistent with flash holes than Winchetser brass I have used.

That being said, the Starline brass is harder and you will definately want to anneal the case before forming or you will have a higher than normal loss rate from forming the neck and shoulders from cracking.

[Don McDowell]

If you can buy the scrapline brass for half the cost of the good stuff, I suppose go for it, but I'ld be wondering why the price difference.
I suppose for the sake of not getting cases mixed up using a different brand of brass for each rifle is a pretty good idea.

[JesterGrin_1]

Maybe it is cheaper since they make it in there own house and it does not need to go through so many hands before it gets to us. That in and of itself could be a big reason.

And yes Don I have two Ranch Dog Molds the RD460-350 and the RD460-425 of which both have the same amount of BOOLIT nose that extends from the case so you can not directly tell them apart. So I felt I would load the 350Gr in the Remington Case and the 425Gr in the StarLine Case.

[Don McDowell]

The op here would be well advised to use seperate brands, as those 40-60's are short and probably need the rims thinned. Getting those mixed into the mix with the Sharps could make a lead miner extrordinare out of a fella.

[shdwlkr]

jimdvan
First I would use a different name brass for each caliber just so I knew by the brand which firearm they went to.
As to starline being better all I know is that in my 32-20 that it lasts longer and in my 45-70 I also like the starline better then winchester but in a lot of other calibers I have winchester and remington and have the same brass that I bought almost 30 years ago. I don't hot load my brass and that makes it last longer.
I can tell by the brand which firearm it goes to and it much easier to sort.
I have remington, winchester, starline, magtech, top hat and some other manufacturer's brass and it all works for each firearm that it is used in.

[chaos]

I like starline better than any other brass I use. I've never annealed a single piece. 44 mag/ 45-70

[45r]

My highwall likes the rem brass.The starline stuff is too hard but that would be OK in a levergun I guess.

[Irascible]

I chose Starline for my 45-70 smokeless loads because of the smaller case capacity.
I chose Starline for my 40-65 black powder loads because of the headstamp. I annealed them before using. I don't know if I needed to, I was just told to, so I did! I used to use re-formed R-P and never annealed them.
I have had a rash of W-W 44 Special brass with HUGH burrs on the flash holes. Large enough that I could feel them crush when depriming once fired cases. I have never found a burr on a Starline case.
I bought a Hornady annealing kit and used a lathe to open up one of the adapters to fit the 45-70 case head. I found the Tempilaq to be a pain to remove, so now I time how long to melt it and just use the second hand to achieve the right temp on the rest of the cases. It actually works well and is fast.
Annealing is a pain. De-burring is a pain. One pain is as bad as the other.

[jimdvan]

Thanks for all the help, guys.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've heard of guys anneaing by dipping the necks into the lead pot, then dunkingit in water. Is this good enough to anneal properly?

[Irascible]

Practice with some old cases first! I could never get the hang of it. I have a lot of "tinned" cases in the scrap bucket!

[JesterGrin_1]

Four Fingers look at post II all the info is there. :)

[FromTheWoods]

I too prefer Starline in all the calibers I can get from them.

Winchester brass is just too soft/thin/weak/wimpy. I've had trouble with Winchester pistol brass to the point that I have had to scrap it. I no longer purchase their brass unless it is the only game in town for some of my rarer calibers.