outdoorfan
05-29-2009, 10:38 PM
I'm a newbie caster, and I pan lube. Been getting the hang of it, although I don't have it dialed in yet.
1. When pan lubing, I've been reheating the heat-treated bullets (50/50 soft and ww's). I've been getting them up to 170-180 degrees F before pouring the lube. I'm not sure at what temperature those bullets will start to anneal/get soft/lose their hardness from the HTment. I don't think 180 is enough, but I would like to know for sure.
2. I've been using Lar's C-red. Is this lube soft enough to stay useful for me in the fall/winter when the temps are anywhere from 40 down to below 0? I would think so, but once again, I'd like some confirmation from other's experiences.
I have been working up a load for my Savage .223 (Stevens barrel, actually). Pretty sure it has a 1-9 twist. Veral made me a mold. It is a spitzer style with a .1 meplat. Weight with the above-mentioned alloy after lubed and gc'ed is around 71 grains.
I now have 51 rounds thru it, including foulers and sighters. The barrel is brand new and has never had any jacketed bullets fired in it. So far I've only tried H4895 and Winchester SRP's. I learned real quick that at velocities over 2200 accuracy goes south real fast. All groups so far have been 3-shot groups, and only one per load increment at that. I know several groups at each charge gives more precise data, but I don't have the time.
So, this is what I've got so far:
My first batch I tried to load like jacketed. I went in one grain increments from 21-24 grains. Velocities were from 2492-2792. Seemed to be 100 fps per grain of powder. Accuracy was 4-5 inches, except for the 24-grain charge, which was quite a bit worse. This was at 50 yards.
I then did some reading on these forums to see what reduced charges would do. The next batch consisted of 16-20 grains in one-grain increments, and this time using .5 grain polyester batting/filling. Once again, shots were at 50 yards.
16 grains = .8 inches @ 2036 fps
17 grains = .7 inches @ 2167 fps
18 grains = 1.43 inches @ 2249 fps
19 grains = 1.37 inches @ 2374 fps
20 grains = 5.125 inches @ 2489 fps
*That 20-grain group was so bad because the 3'rd shot was way off. First two weren't too bad. I also thought it was interesting that the 20-grain charge with the filler was the same velocity as the 21-grain charge without filler.
With the third batch I decided to drop down even lower with the charges, and this time I knew it would be accurate enough to attempt shooting at 100 yards. I continued using the filler, but this time .75 grain.
13 grains = 1.062 inches @ 1659 fps
14 grains = .6 inches @ 1783 fps
15 grains = 1.7 inches @ 1953 fps (First two shots were tight)
16 grains = 1.03 inches @ 2062 fps
17 grains = 1.58 inches @ 2197 fps
I'm fairly pleased with the accuracy, but I wish I could get more velocity. As I mentioned previously, these bullets are HT'ed at probably around 20 bhn, although I haven't tested them.
My next step will be to shoot more groups in the 14-17 grain range, but this time going in .5 grain increments. This bullet is too long to seat it with the gc inside the neck. It extends down to the bottom of the shoulder. I don't do anything special with with the brass, as far as turning it or uniforming, etc. I'm not into that. Any ideas on how I could get more velocity while still retaining 1.5 moa (3-shot groups) accuracy? Harder, softer bullets? Different alloy?
One concern I have is that this barrel has to be rough as can be. I'd like to fire lap it. I haven't slugged it yet. What do ya think?
Some other tidbits:
The bullets that I did weigh (5-10 of them) were mostly within .1 grain of each other. Bullets were sized .22625 (or so) in a Lee sizer. I know they're supposed to be a nose-first push though, but the gc's (Gator) wouldn't crimp on right. So, I went base-first to get a good crimp. But going base-first meant that no lube gets transferred to the top of the gc in that little space before the first driving band. I don't know why they won't work nose-first.
I was originally intending for this to be a 300-yard coyote/prairie dog rig, but at these velocities it's looking more like 200 yards will be about it.
I probably have more questions, but that's all I can think of for now. I know this is kind of long, but I'd appreciate any direction that anyone can offer to me.
1. When pan lubing, I've been reheating the heat-treated bullets (50/50 soft and ww's). I've been getting them up to 170-180 degrees F before pouring the lube. I'm not sure at what temperature those bullets will start to anneal/get soft/lose their hardness from the HTment. I don't think 180 is enough, but I would like to know for sure.
2. I've been using Lar's C-red. Is this lube soft enough to stay useful for me in the fall/winter when the temps are anywhere from 40 down to below 0? I would think so, but once again, I'd like some confirmation from other's experiences.
I have been working up a load for my Savage .223 (Stevens barrel, actually). Pretty sure it has a 1-9 twist. Veral made me a mold. It is a spitzer style with a .1 meplat. Weight with the above-mentioned alloy after lubed and gc'ed is around 71 grains.
I now have 51 rounds thru it, including foulers and sighters. The barrel is brand new and has never had any jacketed bullets fired in it. So far I've only tried H4895 and Winchester SRP's. I learned real quick that at velocities over 2200 accuracy goes south real fast. All groups so far have been 3-shot groups, and only one per load increment at that. I know several groups at each charge gives more precise data, but I don't have the time.
So, this is what I've got so far:
My first batch I tried to load like jacketed. I went in one grain increments from 21-24 grains. Velocities were from 2492-2792. Seemed to be 100 fps per grain of powder. Accuracy was 4-5 inches, except for the 24-grain charge, which was quite a bit worse. This was at 50 yards.
I then did some reading on these forums to see what reduced charges would do. The next batch consisted of 16-20 grains in one-grain increments, and this time using .5 grain polyester batting/filling. Once again, shots were at 50 yards.
16 grains = .8 inches @ 2036 fps
17 grains = .7 inches @ 2167 fps
18 grains = 1.43 inches @ 2249 fps
19 grains = 1.37 inches @ 2374 fps
20 grains = 5.125 inches @ 2489 fps
*That 20-grain group was so bad because the 3'rd shot was way off. First two weren't too bad. I also thought it was interesting that the 20-grain charge with the filler was the same velocity as the 21-grain charge without filler.
With the third batch I decided to drop down even lower with the charges, and this time I knew it would be accurate enough to attempt shooting at 100 yards. I continued using the filler, but this time .75 grain.
13 grains = 1.062 inches @ 1659 fps
14 grains = .6 inches @ 1783 fps
15 grains = 1.7 inches @ 1953 fps (First two shots were tight)
16 grains = 1.03 inches @ 2062 fps
17 grains = 1.58 inches @ 2197 fps
I'm fairly pleased with the accuracy, but I wish I could get more velocity. As I mentioned previously, these bullets are HT'ed at probably around 20 bhn, although I haven't tested them.
My next step will be to shoot more groups in the 14-17 grain range, but this time going in .5 grain increments. This bullet is too long to seat it with the gc inside the neck. It extends down to the bottom of the shoulder. I don't do anything special with with the brass, as far as turning it or uniforming, etc. I'm not into that. Any ideas on how I could get more velocity while still retaining 1.5 moa (3-shot groups) accuracy? Harder, softer bullets? Different alloy?
One concern I have is that this barrel has to be rough as can be. I'd like to fire lap it. I haven't slugged it yet. What do ya think?
Some other tidbits:
The bullets that I did weigh (5-10 of them) were mostly within .1 grain of each other. Bullets were sized .22625 (or so) in a Lee sizer. I know they're supposed to be a nose-first push though, but the gc's (Gator) wouldn't crimp on right. So, I went base-first to get a good crimp. But going base-first meant that no lube gets transferred to the top of the gc in that little space before the first driving band. I don't know why they won't work nose-first.
I was originally intending for this to be a 300-yard coyote/prairie dog rig, but at these velocities it's looking more like 200 yards will be about it.
I probably have more questions, but that's all I can think of for now. I know this is kind of long, but I'd appreciate any direction that anyone can offer to me.