LLA info

[chevyiron420]

hi folks, i have had two experiences with this stuff, both bad. i hear so much about how great it is i feel like im doing something wrong. so straighten me out here. my first bad deal was with my 44 mag redhawk. i shot cast semiwadcutters in the past with no problems. i got hold of a lee mold about 215 grain semiwadcutter plain base. i casted some with a #2 alloy and water quenched. i cant remember the size but the fit good in the cylender and barrel. slight thunb preasure to push thru the cylender and they were about a thousanths over groove. i tumble lubed them two times per a previous recomendation and loaded over about 10 grains of unique. after about 15 rounds the gun looked like it had been in a fire and the barrel was horribly leaded. it took me a week to get it cleaned up. the second experience was with my 38S&W. boolits were 148 grain wadcutters .3615 dia. double tumbled with LLA and seated out, crimped in the second lube groove. i think the charge was about 3 grains of unique. the same thing happened. i am currently shooting a 158 grain flat point lee bullet over bullseye, hand lubeing with 50\50 in the 38 with good results but it too time consuming. i dont have a sizer die to lube with. the boolit fits fine as cast and if i could get the tumble lube working it would be so much faster to load. what was i doing wrong??:castmine:

[dromia]

Assumimg that your boolit fit to chamber, throat and barrel is good do you get any shaving when you seat the boolit into the case?

[windrider919]

i had a similar problem with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. What I found was that the problem was with my reloading dies which were RCBS. You would think they were quality but mine did not work for lead bullets. what was happening was that after resizing then expander ball / case mouth belling the 'grip' [the amount of squeeze the case exerted on the bullet] was too tight for lead bullets and as the bullet was being pressed into the case it was actually sizing them down almost .003!! Which made the bullet .427, obviously underbore and guaranteed to lead. I have also experienced the same problem with new brass 45 ACP where it grips the bullet tightly. The solution was a larger expander ball so the case did not grip the bullet as tightly. The original expander was fine for jacketed bullets, just not for lead. I should note that the .44 sizing die was .001 smaller than a friends RCBS die and if I used his dies I had less of a problem.

I personally have used more than a gallon of LLA and do not have a problem with it. I use it for .45ACP and for .458 rifle bullets fired at anywhere from 1200 to 1800 FPS. I use it sucessfully on standard groove bullets, not just Lee tumble groove. Thats why I think you might have a problem some where else.

[shotman]

Try this Heat the lube It will get as thin as water. {I heat in hot water} lube only once. 10gr of unique is hot for a non check boolit.Try 8gr. I dont have a Ruger anymore but I dont get leading in a S&W 629. The 8gr will help on the blacking too

[chevyiron420]

i will check the dies and if needed will make a M die. i will pull some loaded rounds and re-measure the boolits. no i dont get any shaveing of lead when i seat the boolits, and i'll back the load down on the 44 too.
how much of the LLA is needed on the boolit? i have been told everywhare from just a hardly noticable film to a heavy coat, filling the grooves as much as possible.
on rifle boolits with bore riding noses does the nose need to be covered with LLA or can you wipe it off?

[Tom W.]

You don't need a whole lot of LLA coating your bullet. I just tumble lube with a very small amount for best results. I tried dipping some rifle bullets as per Ranch Dog's method, but that didn't do as well as a light tumble. I've also dusted the bullets with motor mica after they've dried to keep them from being sticky, and have had no negative results.

[jawjaboy]

Hey Chevy. Good ta see ya back.

I'm not having any trouble with using LLA in 38 and 44. I've got the Lee tumble lube semi-wadcutter moulds in both calibers if ya need ta run some out. Your welcome to 'em.

Also happened upon a Lyman single cavity hollow point mould in 44 as well. Drop by sometimes. You still have my phone number?
.

[Echo]

I assume the .38 S&W is not a .38 Special - many .38 S&W barrels were rather deep, with grooves up to .360. The .358 WC could be a problem. Slug the barrel...

[markinalpine]

hi folks, i have had two experiences with this stuff, both bad. i hear so much about how great it is i feel like im doing something wrong. so straighten me out here. my first bad deal was with my 44 mag redhawk. i shot cast semiwadcutters in the past with no problems. i got hold of a lee mold about 215 grain semiwadcutter plain base. i casted some with a #2 alloy and water quenched. i cant remember the size but the fit good in the cylender and barrel. slight thunb preasure to push thru the cylender and they were about a thousanths over groove. i tumble lubed them two times per a previous recomendation and loaded over about 10 grains of unique. after about 15 rounds the gun looked like it had been in a fire and the barrel was horribly leaded. it took me a week to get it cleaned up. the second experience was with my 38S&W. boolits were 148 grain wadcutters .3615 dia. double tumbled with LLA and seated out, crimped in the second lube groove. i think the charge was about 3 grains of unique. the same thing happened. i am currently shooting a 158 grain flat point lee bullet over bullseye, hand lubeing with 50\50 in the 38 with good results but it too time consuming. i dont have a sizer die to lube with. the boolit fits fine as cast and if i could get the tumble lube working it would be so much faster to load. what was i doing wrong??:castmine:

You changed three things, the mould/boolit, the powder, and the lube. Try what was working the first time, but only change the lube, and see it it works or not. If using LLA works OK, then go back to the 50/50, and change the powder to see if that might be causing your problem. Process of elimination by changing one variable at a time. It might not be the Lube.
Good luck,
Mark :coffee:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

As suggested, if your boolits fit chamber/bore as required and your dies are working properly, the LLA works fine IMHO, I have no issues with it, some do. Yes you can wipe the noses of the boolits.

One coat usually works. I cut mine 50/50 with mineral sperits, I also put the bottle in warm water to keep it thin while using it.

You can also put the boolits in a plastic bag/container and dust them with a bit of Talc / body powder to stop the sticky problem while handling. Just a couple of things that work for me.

Good Luck

[chevyiron420]

Hey Chevy. Good ta see ya back.

I'm not having any trouble with using LLA in 38 and 44. I've got the Lee tumble lube semi-wadcutter moulds in both calibers if ya need ta run some out. Your welcome to 'em.

Also happened upon a Lyman single cavity hollow point mould in 44 as well. Drop by sometimes. You still have my phone number?
.

thanks jawja! its nice to be back. i have been working on my 57 for months and im starting to make body panels in my sleep, when i sleep. i need a break!:castmine:

[chevyiron420]

I assume the .38 S&W is not a .38 Special - many .38 S&W barrels were rather deep, with grooves up to .360. The .358 WC could be a problem. Slug the barrel...

thanks echo, but if you read the post you will see the wadcutters are .3615.:castmine:

[chevyiron420]

You changed three things, the mould/boolit, the powder, and the lube. Try what was working the first time, but only change the lube, and see it it works or not. If using LLA works OK, then go back to the 50/50, and change the powder to see if that might be causing your problem. Process of elimination by changing one variable at a time. It might not be the Lube.
Good luck,
Mark :coffee:

thanks mark, i did that on the 38 cause i was building a completly different load for self defence at the same time i was working with the wadcutters for practice\fun. it just so happens that it worked real well. im going to re try the wadcutter load and use bullseye instead of unique and slow it down a little more. i cant get used to the bullets looking like they have nothing on them! i think im over lubing with the LLA. after 25 rounds the gun was covered with black soot and my hands too!:castmine:

[44man]

This is nothing new. I HATE Alox. I shoot water dropped 30 to 32 BHN boolits that size the brass, not the other way around. LLA will lead my bores. I could pour the bottle through the bore and get leading.
I shoot Felix for months on end without cleaning and have no leading. Same with Carnauba Red or LBT lubes. 50-50 is about halfway in between.
What is the big deal with Alox? In over 56 years I have not gotten accuracy with the stuff.
I stuff Felix in the grooves of tumble lube boolits and get around inch groups at 100 yards with my SBH, no way I will put Lee snot on my boolits.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I am using LLA in my Rossi Puma in .44 Mag with excellent results. I am using the Ranch Dog 265 gr with water quenched WWs w/gas checks using AA#9 and 2400. With either powder I am getting the most accurate loads I have ever fired from this rifle, and NO leading whatsoever. I am using Ranch Dogs method for applying the LLA. I could never get groups under 2" at 50 yds with any cast boolit loads, and anything without a gas check made left large chunks of lead in the bore. My basic problem was a .431 bore causing the leading. But the Ranch Dog boolit with LLA is giving me groups around 1" @50yds all day long. The best group so far is 5 shots into .780 inches @50yds with a medium load of 2400. With AA#9 I hit velocities of 1720 fps with no leading (this load was too hot and I backed it down to about 1650 fps). I would have never believed I could get this velocity without leading. I also shoot a Lee plain base TL 357 158gr SWC unsized in my .357 at 1300 Fps with only a slight lead wash in the barrel after 50 rds. I have found that LLA shoots as well as any lube on a boolit. If the boolit leads with 50/50 or Felix, the LLA wont help, if it shoots good with the other 2 lubes it shoots the same with LLA.

G

[txpete]

I am getting 1450 fps using LLA and no leading in my marlin 45/70 with the plain base lee 340 gr PB bullet.

in my 629 no problem last weekend pushing my 429421 over 1000 fps using LLA.

I don't think the LLA lube is the problem.

pete

[chevyiron420]

This is nothing new. I HATE Alox. I shoot water dropped 30 to 32 BHN boolits that size the brass, not the other way around. LLA will lead my bores. I could pour the bottle through the bore and get leading.
I shoot Felix for months on end without cleaning and have no leading. Same with Carnauba Red or LBT lubes. 50-50 is about halfway in between.
What is the big deal with Alox? In over 56 years I have not gotten accuracy with the stuff.
I stuff Felix in the grooves of tumble lube boolits and get around inch groups at 100 yards with my SBH, no way I will put Lee snot on my boolits.

well, im not sure it is a big deal. im just trying to learn. i would like to load semi large amounts of accurate practice ammo for a few guns that i dont have size dies for that the boolits fit good as cast. i find finger lubing to be tedious. i figure if so many people can swirl there boolits around in a butter tub and dump em out to dry with good results, why cant I. i must be doing something wrong????

[markinalpine]

I like the Lee push through resizing dies, but I've never used any LLA. I use Johnsons Paste Wax. I swirl lube boolits that need resizing with wax based wire pulling lube, run them through the sizer, then dump them in melted JPW. Strain them out a few at a time with a slotted spoon, line them up on wax paper on a cookie sheet, then heat them in the oven at 180 degrees for about an hour. Let them cool off, usually overnight, then start reloading.

Mark :Fire: