boolits in gas-operated guns

[Mavrick]

My brothers have asked me to help them. They don't reload, but I do, and have for a long time. I thought I'd seen about everything, but about that time is when something new comes up.
My brothers are getting into shooting military-rifle silly-wets. They use the chicken, pig, turkey, and ram targets at the usual distances, but have to use military rifles, and they get to shoot prone. They've come to me to try to produce ammo cheaper, and probably with less recoil. My thought is to use cast.
I've been told that the front targets are ok, but the ram would be nothing but trouble. That's all-right, I can load the "other kind" and continue. The trouble, I'm told, is getting enough velocity to have enough energy remaining at 500meters.
Is this true?
The next problem is that though one uses a Springfield, the others use gas-operated autos. One is a Garand, the other a Baretta BM59 My thought is that the gas-system will get shavings, and have to be cleaned religiously.
I can cast almost anything. I have lead, antimony, and tin, so I make my own alloys. I also have WW, FWIW.
I've just never worked with gas-guns, other than for paper targets. Am I good to go, or am I on the right track, and shouldn't do it?
Thanks for your opinion.
Gene

[runfiverun]

your sight settings are gonna be your biggest trouble.
the drop of even a 200 gr 30 cal at 1900 at 550 yds is going to be horrendous.
from 100 to 300 in my 308 is 10 mils or @33" that is at 1900 fps.
and let your brothers know it's a lot cheaper if the components are split more than one way.

[jdgabbard]

You might look into paper patching. From what I understand those guys are getting jacketed boolit velocities with their loads. Might be enough to keep point of aim closer to the point of impact.

[mroliver77]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3558
Read this.
I shoot cast in Garand and M1A no problems.
J

[JIMinPHX]

I've seen cast go through an SKS with no problems. My experience with that is limited though.

I believe that Mike Venterino wrote an article in an old issue of Handloader (#120ish?) that covered his exploits with cast in the mini-14. If you do a search in the forums here, you should be able to find a thread on that & other associated info.

A bunch of guys here on the board seem to have had good success with cast in gas operated autofeeders.

[truckmsl]

I'm currently loading cast 7.62x39 for my ak47 and my buddy's SKS. I'm using water quenched wheel weights with gas checks with absolutely no problems with cycling the action, leading or gas system fouling. I slugged my barrel and cast accordingly and clean the rifle after using it. Sights are right on. I'm casting with a group buy 135 grain 6 banger mold, and lubing with Lar's 50/50. Accuracy is better than Wolf ammo, and good enough to have a hell of a good time plinking.

[mpmarty]

My 7.62 Nato AK eats cast just fine. The gas system is so simple and direct that a bent piece of coat hanger can be used to "clear" a clogged gas port. I've never had any lead in the gas system anyway but it's nice to know I can "clear" the problem without any major disassembly.

[Mavrick]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the help.
Tomorrow I'll "throw" some ammo together with several different powders and linotype Lyman 161gr SIL boolits. It's a gascheck boolit with Red Rooster lube. I've got some at .308 and some at .311. That might keep me busy for a while. It'll all be run over the screens and through the magazine.
I'll let ya know.
Have fun,
Gene

[45 2.1]

You'll be better off shooting heavy for caliber boolits (as long as they fit correctly) with slower powder. This functions most of the military semi-autos just fine and is as accurate as "ball" ammo. Take a look at the heavy bullet loading data useing the slower powders in the jacketed section and try the starting loads FIRST, then work up.

[captainkirk]

You'll be better off shooting heavy for caliber boolits (as long as they fit correctly) with slower powder. This functions most of the military semi-autos just fine and is as accurate as "ball" ammo. Take a look at the heavy bullet loading data useing the slower powders in the jacketed section and try the starting loads FIRST, then work up.


I thought you had to be careful with slower burning powders in some of the gas guns (particularly the Garand) to keep from bending the op rod. Am I mistaken or would powders slower than say 4895 or 4064 give you problems?

captainkirk

[jonk]

Powders slower than 4895 will give you trouble IF you are running full tilt jacketed loads. For cast (or reduced loads for jacketed for that matter) it isn't a problem. For instance, 55 grains of 4350 might ruin your op rod but around 40 grains will do just fine. You just want enough to get reliable burning and keep velocity under 2000 fps (unless using a really great lube and/or very hard lead)

Now that said, nothing wrong with 4895. 30 grains of it will operate MY M1 no issues, under a 200 grain bullet. Your mileage may vary of course.

[AnthonyB]

I'm currently working up a load for the M1 Garand using the RCBS 30-180 FN. I fired fifty rounds on Monday ranging from 35 grains 4064 - 40 grains 4064. All but the 40 grain load also had .5 grain dacron as a filler. The rifle functioned with all loads, to include clip ejection when emptied. The rifle puts the first round low and left of the group; it happened with every load.
Next trip I’ll work down from 35 grains to see how low I can go and get reliable functioning. I had one failure to feed that pushed the boolit deeply into the case and may need to go to a round nose or the RCBS 30-165 SIL. Tony

[sundog]

Tony, I'm betting that the RCBS 30-180-SP (SP=semipoint) would solve your feeding problem. I've had very good results with that boolit accuracy wise.

I've started shooting my M1 again for high power with jacketed, so I may give your load a try with the 180-SP. I've got some water quenched just looking for a place to get loaded and shot.

Keep posting your results!

[truckmsl]

I'm using 15 grains of 2400 with boolit weight 135 gr. OAL is a bit shorter than standard due to my bullet design, but this load feeds and performs fine. Brass piles up 6 feet away, and doesn't get beat up at all. Some of my brass is R-P with the small primer pockets, and small pistol magnum CCI primers work very well with these (in my gun). Cans fear me.

[Echo]

I haven't run lead boolits through my M1 yet - things are getting in my way. But. My recommendation is to use a softer alloy (rather than lino). Lino tends to be brittle. I know many folks, gurus too, say they use lino, but IMHO, it is better to cut lino 50/50 w/WW's. This approaches 'hard ball' alloy, stretches the expensive alloy, and produces a more ductile boolit less likely to shatter.