Airgun Hunting with Cast Bullets

[Butcher45]

I posted a good bit of bigbore air rifle information under the thread titled "THANK YOU Dale53" in the Cast Boolits section, and thought it would be a good idea to make a post here to bring more awareness to these unique arms. From the looks of things, most of the people posting here are completely unaware that these rifles exist.

First off, I hunt with my .456 caliber air rifle exclusively. I do a bit of target practice, but I always consider target practice to be load development, and/or preparation for my next hunt. I usually practice with the boolit I intend on hunting with.

These rifles are a boolit casters dream, seeing as there is no need to purchase powder, primers, shells or reloading equipment. All you need is a HillPump (I'll explain), your beloved BOOLITS cast from about BHN10 or softer alloy, and the air surrounding you to propel it.

You can load your favorite boolit into the rifle the second it is cool, step out onto the back 40, and let er' rip. No need to spend time, or money on reloading supplies/equipment.

My own rifle shoots roundball@870fps, and 240grainers@700fps. There are other .45 air rifles out there that are A LOT more powerful than my own. My next air rifle will throw a .45 caliber 260grainer at around 900fps (sound familiar?hehe), and 500grainers at about 671fps.

The most powerful air rifle I have shot personally, threw a 500grain slug at 735fps. There are a select few air rifles that are a good bit more powerful than that!

The first large animal I killed with my bigbore air rifle was an exotic ram. The soul purpose of shooting this ram was to see with my own eyes what this rifle was capable of, and gauge what type of game I could take with it from the results (shades of Strasbourg). I used a 255grain PRS250 slug with a .32 meplat, at approx. 650fps-or-so fps (never chronied this slug). Distance was only about 15 yards.

That is the exit wound shown on the shoulder. After gutting the ram, it was brought to a professional game processor. He said the ram looked as though it had been shot with a 30-06, and was literally flabbergasted over the fact that it was shot with an air rifle.


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/MyFirstRam.jpg

After gaining confidence in my rifle's abilities, I gathered three other bigbore airgun hunters to join me to hunt the feral/wild boar native to Oklahoma. We all used .45caliber air rifles, mine being the least powerful of the bunch. One guy brought a .45 air rifle that (other than the stock and airtube) he had built himself.

We each dropped our hogs where they stood, with one well-placed shot to the brain. This father, and his son were fortunate enough to get their hogs on the same night shooting 205 grain SWC's that appeared to be the Lyman 452460 design. Sows weighing 100, and 143lbs respectively.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/Willandson.jpg

My buddy Jim shot his 100lb boar behind the ear, and out the front of the head with a DD-PRS 390 (nominal weight 390grains) going about 770fps, again cast in soft lead by Springfield Slim.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/JimsShilohHog.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/MakeSureShot.jpg

I shot my 80-or-so pound boar with a 226grain Lyman 45266 kindly provided by LeftoverDJ. It was likely going around 700+fps (haven't chronied that design).

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/MyFirstHog.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/Headshot.jpg

The rifle can be charged with 2500-3200psi of air in one of two ways: the easy way is a scuba tank with a specialized yoke and air fittings. The not-as-easy way (still not to tough) is with a HillPump. I get 4-6 full power shots out of my rifle with one charge of air. 4-5 shots of 240grainers all shoot between 693, and 699fps out of my rifle. I don't care who you are, that is a very low deviance in FPS.
It usually cost a few bucks to fill your scuba tank at the scuba shop, but once you buy a HillPump you have a lifetime of free propellant (sounds nice, doesn't it?).

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/DSCN5507.jpg


These rifles are extremely accurate. Here are two groups I shot after a days hunt, using the EPP/UG design cast in about BHN9 alloy (again, Springfield Slim). They are the only groups I shot that day, so these results are typical. 35, and 50 yards off of the steady stix, while sitting on the ground in the field. .6, and .9 inch center to center.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/DSCN5825-1.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/DSCN5826-1.jpg

[Butcher45]

Here is a group I shot off the monopod while kneeling on both knees at 50 yards using the hollowpoint #454424's cast in near pure lead, sent to me by Grizzly Bear. The printer was accidentally set to print at %97 size, so the small squares on the target are %97 of .5 inch. The monopod got a little wobbly for shot #2 hehe.

It is accuracy like this, that prompted me to talk Dale53 out of his #454424 mold. I was thinking of having a cavity modified to drop hollowpoints, but I think I will leave it as is, and get a single cavity #454424 mold to modify instead.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/HollowpointKeith454424009.jpg

My best measured 50 yard group to date off of the steady stix is .45 inch center to center using the .45Slim design from Springfield Slim (same place I got the EPP/UG's, and the PRS 250's used to kill the ram).

I pay $28+shipping for 250 hunting boolits, so I can afford to do target practice with the same boolit I hunt with. When I begin casting my own, hunting/shooting will be dirt cheap.

In conclusion, this is my greatest hunting accomplishment to date. Called-in to 15 yards (after 10 seconds of blowing the Primos Cat-Nip handcall), and shot with a single roundball (didn't have time to zero with anything else before the hunt).


Let me know what you all think!



http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/FirstCoyote006.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/morehuntingpics006.jpg

[jack19512]

Thanks for sharing. I thought this was a very interesting read.

[DanOH]

Thats awesome!
American Rifleman had an article last year about the airgun that Lewis and Clark carried with them on their journey. I remember it was a large caliber--REPEATER--(like 6 rounds) they used for hunting and also used for demonstrations for the natives. Supposedly that rifle was instrumental in "incentivising" the Indians to co-operate with the Corps of Discovery.
I believe the air tank was a goats bladder or something like that.

Are these modern rifles available as repeaters?

[Butcher45]

Are these modern rifles available as repeaters?


With air rifles, a "bigbore" is considered to be .308 and up. The only repeater bigbore air rifle out there that I am aware of is the Career 9mm Ultra. A lever action, six shot repeater.

They say in the listing below that the only "pellets" that work are the ones sold by EJ, but there are 100grain flatnose slugs that have proven to work just fine.


http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=307

[dk17hmr]

How heavy are these rifles?

Very interesting.

[Butcher45]

How heavy are these rifles?

Very interesting.


Mine is advertised at 7.5lbs without a scope.

Unfortunately, they have stopped importing the SamYang rifles into the country. My best guess as to why, is that it is due to a safety issue with the sear that needs addressed, some of them more than others.

Hopefully they will resolve the issue, and continue importing them. Until then, there are still a few guys here in the states that build custom bigbore air rifles. They all have long waiting lists, though.

[scrapcan]

Butcher45,

Nice thread. Have you tried swaged slugs in the rifle or do you see an advantage to having the driving band-groove configuration? Could you shoot a hollow or cup based swaged LSWC type slug?

I have a set of corbin LSWC dies in 45. send me a pm if you would like me to swage and measure diameter. I think they are .452, but would need to check for sure. I think I have a couple of nose punches, and flat and cup base punches.

[Butcher45]

Butcher45,

Nice thread. Have you tried swaged slugs in the rifle or do you see an advantage to having the driving band-groove configuration? Could you shoot a hollow or cup based swaged LSWC type slug?

I have a set of corbin LSWC dies in 45. send me a pm if you would like me to swage and measure diameter. I think they are .452, but would need to check for sure. I think I have a couple of nose punches, and flat and cup base punches.

The swaged slugs that I can recall trying, are the Hornady 250grain .454's, the BBC 180 grain BP Pistol Boolits, and the T/C MaxiBalls (I think they are swaged?). All of them shoot very well, though I haven't shot many of the Hornady 250grainers yet. The Maxi-Balls are about .455 on the top ring.

I am leaning towards .4555-.456 as being the ideal over-all boolit diameter for this barrel (anyone know where to find a .456 sizer?). I know that .457 roundball shoots better than the .454 RB in most of the 909 barrels I have heard of.

With these bigbore air rifles, the less contact area the slug has with the barrel, the better; so long as there is a good air seal, and enough band area to grab the rifling without stripping when using soft lead. That's one reason I am a big fan of the BigLube designs, particularly the .45Slims, and EPP/UG's.

I think that the swaged slugs benefit from the process used to rough-up the sides to help with lube retention (though I do not use boolit lube), thus reducing contact area while still maintaining a good air seal. I can't recall what that process is called at the moment, it will probably come to me the moment I push "submit reply" hehe.

As for hollow/cup based slugs, I would like to test those sometime. The BBC's shot well out of my rifle. I don't know if 2500-3200psi will expand the cup or not. I may have access to a bunch of sheep wool to shoot slugs into with the hope that they remain un-damaged so I can evaluate them. That is, if the rancher doesn't burn it all before I get out there again.

[Old Ironsights]

Thats awesome!
American Rifleman had an article last year about the airgun that Lewis and Clark carried with them on their journey. I remember it was a large caliber--REPEATER--(like 6 rounds) they used for hunting and also used for demonstrations for the natives. Supposedly that rifle was instrumental in "incentivising" the Indians to co-operate with the Corps of Discovery.
I believe the air tank was a goats bladder or something like that.

Are these modern rifles available as repeaters?

It held, like, TWENTY TWO balls... [smilie=1:


Girandoni military model repeating air rifle invented by Bartholomäus Girandoni, Vienna, Model of 1780. Full length view, right hand side. Breech loading, rapid fire repeater, issued with two extra air reservoirs and three extra 20 shot speed loading tubes. At first, a long hand pump was provided to every soldier, later to every other soldier. The magazine has always been described as holding 20 balls, but this specimen has a capacity, with one ball in the firing position, of 22 balls. ...

The Girandoni military air rifle is a butt reservoir air rifle with a rifled bore diameter of 0.452” (11.48 mm) , groove diameter 0.462" (11.73 mm) (personal communication, Ernst Cowan, 2005; bore diameter of about 0.450" determined by author prior to insuring the Beeman Girandoni on 2 December 1978 ). The proper pure lead ball was 0.464" (11.79 mm) caliber of 154 grains (10.01 gms) or 45 balls per pound. This was the popular "11 3/4 mm" caliber of that period. Rifling is twelve grooves with one turn in about two-thirds of a meter (26.25"). As noted in the Rodney account, the reservoir indeed has an unusual “bag” shape. This conical iron air reservoir serves to hold a supply of highly compressed air and to act as the rifle’s buttstock. An external tubular magazine, along the right side of the barrel generally was described as holding 20 lead balls which are gravity fed (without a magazine spring or follower) to a transverse loading bar at the breech end of the barrel. However, with a ball in the firing socket of the loading bar, our specimen has a total ball capacity of 22 balls. The correct magazine capacity evidently is 21 balls. A flat spring running the length of the outside of the magazine holds the loading bar to the left. When the gun is held muzzle up and the left end of the loading bar is pushed by the shooter, the bar moves to the right, and a cavity within the bar receives a ball by gravity from the magazine. The ball is moved into firing position behind the barrel as the magazine spring is allowed to push the loading bar back to the left. ...

http://www.beemans.net/images/Beeman%20850k%20-Girandoni-Military.jpg


FWIW, AR largely plagerized/cited without attribution and generally did a hatchet job to Mr. Beeman's EXTENSIVE research on the Girandoni Air Rifle.

http://www.beemans.net/lewis-assault-rifle.htm
http://www.beemans.net/

Lots of "how to" for metal wizards here: http://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian%20airguns.htm

[SWIAFB]

Butcher45, have you tried any 450229s ?

[Butcher45]

Butcher45, have you tried any 450229s ?


No, I haven't. They do look very interesting. What diameter do they drop at? Judging from the weight/shape, I presume it has a hollow base?

[SWIAFB]

Mine are dropping at .458, 165grs stick on w/w's with a bit of reclaimed 60/40 added. Yes, it is a hollw base. Works great in a Ruger Old Army.

[Butcher45]

Mine are dropping at .458, 165grs stick on w/w's with a bit of reclaimed 60/40 added. Yes, it is a hollw base. Works great in a Ruger Old Army.

Looks to have a pretty decent meplat for such a light round. I hear hollow base slugs are pretty tough to cast.

[mister gizmo]

Butcher45:

I did check that thread and Floodgate got my Lyman #45266 mold.

gizmo

[SharpsShooter]

Airgun hunting is very interesting stuff. I shoot PCP types almost daily. Using Mountain Molds web based design software, I designed 275gr pellet with an 85% meplat for a friend that uses a Dragonslayer 50. The bore is .493" actually. The mould was speced to drop them at.494" and I am waiting by the mailbox for the .493" push through die from Buckshot to test the little monster.

SS

[Butcher45]

Airgun hunting is very interesting stuff. I shoot PCP types almost daily. Using Mountain Molds web based design software, I designed 275gr pellet with an 85% meplat for a friend that uses a Dragonslayer 50. The bore is .493" actually. The mould was speced to drop them at.494" and I am waiting by the mailbox for the .493" push through die from Buckshot to test the little monster.

SS


Is your friend's DS modified for additional power over stock? That is a very heavy slug for a stock DS gun to expect much velocity from it.

I figured I would see Buckshot involved with these bigbore airguns eventually, but geez that was faster than I thought!:mrgreen:

[SharpsShooter]

Is your friend's DS modified for additional power over stock? That is a very heavy slug for a stock DS gun to expect much velocity from it.

I figured I would see Buckshot involved with these bigbore airguns eventually, but geez that was faster than I thought!:mrgreen:

Velocity is expected to remain in the realm of 600fps. I purposely designed it to have two narrow drive bands (.078) to keep the friction coeficient low, but yet retain enough bearing surface to allow the rifling to impart spin.

Given a velocity of 600fps, a 275gr pellet will produce 219 ft-lbs of energy.

Pyramid Air offers 200 and 225gr pellets http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/dragon-slayer/Dragon_Slayer_bullets.jpg


See also.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51775


SS

[Butcher45]

Velocity is expected to remain in the realm of 600fps. I purposely designed it to have two narrow drive bands (.078) to keep the friction coeficient low, but yet retain enough bearing surface to allow the rifling to impart spin.

Given a velocity of 600fps, a 275gr pellet will produce 219 ft-lbs of energy.

Pyramid Air offers 200 and 225gr pellets http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/dragon-slayer/Dragon_Slayer_bullets.jpg


See also.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51775


SS


Yea that should do the trick. I used a 255grainer@about 650fps on a corsican ram, and it went thru him like a hot knife thru butter.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Wow! how noisy/quiet are these rifles? I wouldn't mind building one myself. I have a smick No4 Bbl downstairs, a 180/200Gn boolit travelling at 1000fps would be pretty good up to about 30-40 yards I reckon. I have an old 1866 Uberti, I could pull the Bbl fit a 45 Cal Bbl and chamber it for 45 Cowboy and use the thin 1866 Bbl for the airgun, nice soft pure lead boolits at 900 off fps, that's awesome.

[Vly]

Very interesting thread. I am also interested in how quiet/noisy these rifles sound.

[Butcher45]

A hunting partner tells me he thinks it sounds like a 20gauge, with a bit lower volume. I think it depends on what the noise is echoing off of. Air is funny like that.

They are definitely NOT quiet.

[SharpsShooter]

Well here it is. After a lengthy wait for the mould, my pal with the dragonslayer and I cast 130 samples yesterday and off to the range we went to test this and some other stuff too,.

275gr Airgun pellet that I designed for a Dragonslayer airgun. Cast of 20:1 at 875 degrees and sized to .491" Average velocity 600fps, producing 219 ft-lbs energy. This group size was 1.25", shot at 50yards off the bench.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/275grPellet.jpg



Groups at lesser ranges were simply ragged holes barely larger than the bullet diameter itself:mrgreen:


SS

[Butcher45]

The DragonSlayer has more potential than I thought. Had no idea it could throw a 275grain slug that fast in stock form.

That is the first boolit I've seen for the DragonSlayer that I would want to use for big game hunting. Looks like it will leave more than a mark hehe.

Excellent!

[Marlin Junky]

With these bigbore air rifles, the less contact area the slug has with the barrel, the better; so long as there is a good air seal, and enough band area to grab the rifling without stripping when using soft lead. That's one reason I am a big fan of the BigLube designs, particularly the .45Slims, and EPP/UG's.

How 'bout paper patching air rifle boolits?

I never thought I could become interested in airguns but the cost/availability of powder and primers is starting to put a crimp in my shooting; so, lately I've been looking at air rifles for up to 100 yard target shooting. I'm interested in a .308 Quackenbush but Dennis Q. is backed up until at least this Spring so I thought I'd acquire something to shoot at the range until I can get a big bore. At least I can start collect all the paraphernalia needed for airgunning. I'm not going to go with a hand pump but rather a:

http://www.pomona-airguns.com/AirTex%20Compressors.htm

Thanks for the info,
MJ

[Butcher45]

How 'bout paper patching air rifle boolits?

I never thought I could become interested in airguns but the cost/availability of powder and primers is starting to put a crimp in my shooting; so, lately I've been looking at air rifles for up to 100 yard target shooting. I'm interested in a .308 Quackenbush but Dennis Q. is backed up until at least this Spring so I thought I'd acquire something to shoot at the range until I can get a big bore. At least I can start collect all the paraphernalia needed for airgunning. I'm not going to go with a hand pump but rather a:

http://www.pomona-airguns.com/AirTex%20Compressors.htm

Thanks for the info,
MJ

Haven't tried paper-patched in an airgun yet.

If you cannot get on the list, there are only three other bigbores available I can suggest: either the Gargoyle, or the Korean made guns (Sam Yang/DragonSlayer). A friend of mine just ordered a .308 airgun barrel to swap onto his 909. SHould be an easy swap. I'll let you know how that goes.

Good luck getting on DAQ's list. That is almost impossible. You never know exactly when it's going to open (only opens about twice a year) so you have to constantly check his orders page throughout the year. Once the list actually opens, it is closed again in a matter of two hours tops. I have tried to get thru when it was open using two phones, and couldn't get anything but a busy signal.

https://gargoyleairgun.com/Home_Page.html

[Marlin Junky]

SharpsShooter,

Was the low shot at 7:00 the last shot in the fill?

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Butcher45,

Thanks for the link. There's a guy at my range shooting a couple of big bore Quackenbush rifles but I'm not very impressed with his 100 yard groups. Granted his boolits aren't anywhere near as nice as mine. :-)

MJ

P.S. I just got done reviewing the performance of the very expensive Gargoyle and am not impressed with the number of accurate (in terms of SD) shots obtainable from a single fill. I'm looking for something that'll shoot several rounds into an inch or less at 50 yards before another fill is required.

[Butcher45]

Butcher45,

Thanks for the link. There's a guy at my range shooting a couple of big bore Quackenbush rifles but I'm not very impressed with his 100 yard groups. Granted his boolits aren't anywhere near as nice as mine. :-)

MJ


What caliber was his DAQ?

I've seen some awesome 200yard groups shot with a .308 DAQ. The .457 DAQ's are not designed to shoot groups, though. There is usually a big difference in velocity between shots, and you get three max with a .457 DAQ.

When shooting for accuracy with a powerful .457, you need to shoot at three different targets. One for the first shot of the fill, the second for the second shot of the fill, etc. Three fills for three groups.

That is why I appreciate my power-tuned 909. I can shoot at least four shots at the same POA, and have the same POI. Plus each of those shots will go thru a deer broadside@50 yards without a problem. Most of the design that have proven accurate in my 909 group an average of .9-1.2 inch at 50 yards when shot off of my steady stix. If I get a group 1.5 inch or bigger at that range, I am definitely over-caffeinated LOL!

[Marlin Junky]

What caliber was his DAQ?

He's got one that shoots a .45 caliber Lee boolit (can't remember which) that we chronographed in the 700 to 800 fps range and one that shoots a .50 round ball. The vertical stringing was pretty bad even though he was feeding from his scuba tank. IIRC, he was buying his boolits from a source and the mold fillout was not good.


I've seen some awesome 200yard groups shot with a .308 DAQ. The .457 DAQ's are not designed to shoot groups, though. There is usually a big difference in velocity between shots, and you get three max with a .457 DAQ.


When shooting for accuracy with a powerful .457, you need to shoot at three different targets. One for the first shot of the fill, the second for the second shot of the fill, etc. Three fills for three groups.


That is why I appreciate my power-tuned 909. I can shoot at least four shots at the same POA, and have the same POI. Plus each of those shots will go thru a deer broadside@50 yards without a problem. Most of the design that have proven accurate in my 909 group an average of .9-1.2 inch at 50 yards when shot off of my steady stix. If I get a group 1.5 inch or bigger at that range, I am definitely over-caffeinated LOL!

I will look into the Asian guns but I wanted to buy something American... perhaps I need to gear up for production. ;-)

In the mean time, can you recommend a small bore PCP to shoot targets and small varmints... even if it means buying pellets for now?

MJ

[Butcher45]

I will look into the Asian guns but I wanted to buy something American... perhaps I need to gear up for production. ;-)

In the mean time, can you recommend a small bore PCP to shoot targets and small varmints... even if it means buying pellets for now?
MJ


There are a LOT of smallbores out there.

I want to buy American as much as the next guy. That said, I am a really big fan of the Korean guns. Great value, and VERY powerful. For a powerful smallbore, look into the Eun Jin Sumatra, especially the .25 (what a caliber!). The Sumatra Carbine would make for a great truck gun!

Then there's the European guns such as FX (imported by Airguns of Arizona), and AirArms. Both very highly regarded in the airgun community for quality, and accuracy. Pretty expensive, though. Check out the FX Royale (that's my future .22 right there, when I can come up with the $$$$).

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

Crosman/Benjamin have recently come out with some PCP airguns. The Discovery, and the Marauder. These had some initial bugs with them, so if you order one of these you want to get it from either MAC1, or a tuner named Greg Davis (heard he is pretty backed-up).

I would go with MAC1 (3rd generation airgunsmith). He goes thru each gun and rubs a bit of his magic on them.

Adventures in Airguns has the best deal on the Sam Yangs.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_rifles=show_menu

http://www.adventuresinairguns.com/

[Marlin Junky]

Butcher45,

What about AirForce?

MJ

[Butcher45]

Butcher45,

What about AirForce?

MJ

Well, I sold my Condor, and don't plan on getting another I'll tell you that much. They are OK if you like to accesorize/tinker a lot. Mine was very in-efficient with air. They revised the valve since then, so maybe that has changed. If I were to get another one, it would be the TalonSS.

IMO the European, and Korean guns are far superior to the AirForce guns.

[Marlin Junky]

IMO the European, and Korean guns are far superior to the AirForce guns.

OK, I'll go along with that and I really appreciate your help!

For now I'm thinking about a .35 caliber airgun so I can possibly use a light weight .35/9mm boolit design. Any suggestions?

MJ

[Butcher45]

OK, I'll go along with that and I really appreciate your help!

For now I'm thinking about a .35 caliber airgun so I can possibly use a light weight .35/9mm boolit design. Any suggestions?

MJ


Fire 202. You can shoot any .357-.358 slug out of it (Korean guns like a fat boolit). The lever action 9mm707 can be boolit-fussy, and may not have as much power.

If the 202 is anything like the older 201, it can be hopped-up in power considerably.

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/career-fire-202-pcp-air-rifle.shtml

A great place to look for a bargain. If you can find an older Fire 201 in good shape get that.

Be sure to check the BOI for seller references, as there are a lot of scammers lurking about.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/

[Marlin Junky]

Butcher45,

Can the triggers be improved by a little stoning or is the rifle spot welded together? [smilie=l:

The spec's on Pyramyd Air's website say the trigger on the Fire 202 is two stage non-adjustable... I can't help being apprehensive about that.

MJ

[Butcher45]

Butcher45,

Can the triggers be improved by a little stoning or is the rifle spot welded together? [smilie=l:

The spec's on Pyramyd Air's website say the trigger on the Fire 202 is two stage non-adjustable... I can't help being apprehensive about that.

MJ

That I can't tell you.

For questions on tuning these airguns, contact WillP@skybest.com I just sent him my 909 to fix a leak, and also the check valve. He can tell you more about what can be done to the triggers, and power-tuning.

I get the impression that the 202 may be somewhat under-powered compared to the 201, so I would do some research on that. If you keep your eye on the Yellow Classified's, a Fire 201 for sale should pop up before to long.

Oh, don't even bother with the 9mm Eun Jin Pellets. Notoriously in-accurate from the reports I have heard. That is a big reason to go with the Fire over the 9mm 707 right there, as the 9mm 707 can only make use of one or two regular boolit designs.

[Marlin Junky]

I get the impression that the 202 may be somewhat under-powered compared to the 201, so I would do some research on that. If you keep your eye on the Yellow Classified's, a Fire 201 for sale should pop up before to long.

Supposedly, the 202 launches the same 77 grain pellet to the same 900 fps as the 201.

I'll keep looking and contact WillP@skybest.com before I've made a purchase decision. My main goal is to be able to shoot my cast boolits.

Thanks for your help,
MJ

[Butcher45]

Supposedly, the 202 launches the same 77 grain pellet to the same 900 fps as the 201.

I'll keep looking and contact WillP@skybest.com before I've made a purchase decision. My main goal is to be able to shoot my cast boolits.

Thanks for your help,
MJ

WillP will treat you right.

I say 202, SamYang 909/909S, or a Gargoyle. The 909S is best suited for specifically hunting bigger critters, as it is a little more powerful in stock form than the 909 (and can be tuned for a lot more power, 320-350+fpe).
The 909 "Light Hunter" is IMO a lot more versatile than the 909S, as it will still kill a deer just fine at 50 yards (especially when power-tuned to 260-280fpe), and there are more shots that hit the same POA for target shooting, and hunting more critters. Being able to shoot very tight 3-5 shot groups at one POA, off of one airfill is real nice.

The .452 Gargoyle (Available at Adventures in Airguns) is the veritable "Holy Grail" of airguns IMO.
You can quickly swap valves to adjust the power/shot count. I know a guy that has his set-up for economical target shooting.........he shoots tight groups with roundball@around 970fps off of one airfill.
The standard, "medium" power Gargoyle valve produces 550-575fpe with about a 360grain boolit. The maker of the Gargoyle told me about another experimental "long pin" valve that supposedly produces so much power that I don't even want to say/write what I heard until I see it personally (mammoth power).

Keep us informed on your bigbore airgunning, and what boolits are working out for you. It's fun watching folks get their first bigbore airgun, then seeing them report on how much fun they are having with them.

[Springfield]

For a 9mm bore gun you might try these.

[Butcher45]

For a 9mm bore gun you might try these.

That's gotta be a ".357Slim", right? Looks a lot like the .45Slims (.454), which are super-accurate in my tuned 909 (cast in BHN6 lead, best measured group yet off steady stix@50 yards .45inch center to center).

Now somebody needs to come up with a .357 version mold of the EPP/UG (?group buy?). Very accurate target/small game design. The Lyman #457130, and the Big Lube EPP/UG designs were the first boolits I ever saw that looked like they could have been specifically designed to be shot from an airgun rather than a firearm.

[Greg in Malad]

Marlin Junky,
For a smallbore PCP look at the BSA rifles. I have the sportsman hv .22 cal 10 shot repeater. It will shoot 50yd 5 shot groups of .5" or sometimes less. I am using 16gr jsb exact pellets and they are chronographing 970 fps. At 70 yds they shoot through ground squirrels. Or if you want bigger, BSA makes .25 cal rifles. Its sure nice to not need primers and the Hill pump isn't that bad of a workout. Remember, we used to walk uphill to school, both ways.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have been using a Diana 52 in 22 cal for some years now. Side lev er cocking is a bit heavy and it is a bit noisy, but it kills rabbits cleanly out to 40-50 yards with a good shot and absolutely splatters feral birds. I am about to get chooks again, I can't wait to go back to blasting feral sparrows, starlings and Indian Minors who come raiding the chook's feed tray. I will lay out the chookhouse a bit better this time, they were all awkward shots before. I ain't gonna fall for that one again.

I've never used cast though. I would have though swaging would be better. They're pretty cheap anyway, but it would be nice to be self sufficient for slugs.

[Butcher45]

I posted some new numbers in the Cast Boolits section.

[Multigunner]

I've long wished to duplicate the prop air rifle used as a trankgun in the old Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea TV series.
Don't know if this was based on a real conversion or not, but the rifles appeared to be a No.4 or No.5 Enfield action converted to PCP and to fire tranquilizer darts.
The Enfield action with its threaded in bolt head could be modified fairly easily with a o-ring sealed probe replacing the bolt head and an extension of the sear striking an air valve in the air bottle fitting that fits in the mag well.

[JIMinPHX]

So then, where can you buy these big bore air rifles?

[Butcher45]

So then, where can you buy these big bore air rifles?

Adventures in Airguns., or PyramidAir.

http://www.adventuresinairguns.com/big-game-c-3.html?osCsid=0cae4426744627fc846ba70d3186a331

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?Manufacturers=Sam%20Yang&cmd_manufacturers=1

The best forum for comprehensive research of bigbore airguns is here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/

I personally toughed it out with the hand-pump until I could afford the 4500psi carbon fiber tanks. Might want to get the pump first, as it is the best value if you don't mind the work. It is also nice to have as a back-up if your tanks run out of air. Once you have the HillPump (the only brand I recommend), you have free propellant everywhere you go!


Randy Mitchell at Adventures in Airguns (tell him Butcher sent you) can even hook you up with a Gargoyle (IMO the best thing running in bigbore airguns) with no waiting like the other high-powered bigbore airguns.
There are four valves/power levels to choose from that are easy to swap in and out, including a low-powered 'lighter boolit valve for a higher shot count on a fill (if you call 300fpe with roundball "low powered"). The standard valve that comes with the Gargoyle is built to shoot boolits up to 250grains (at approximately .45Colt power levels), but still produces about 550fpe with 330grain slugs with the standard valve.
The "EP" (Extra Power) valve has been initially reported by a consumer to produce 670fpe in his Gargoyle. You can shoot 460+grain slugs in it, probably even 500+grainers but I'm not positive on that.

https://gargoyleairgun.com/Home_Page.html

You will want to get all the right fill equipment here.

http://www.hamcontact.com/airgun/HoseAssembly/

[IridiumRed]

Hey everybody.

I know I'm bringing an old zombie thread back to life, but.... this was a fascinating thread. Lots of good info in here, on stuff that we, or at least I, don't hear too much about (magnum class air rifles)

I brought this thread back to see if there was anything new? Been plenty of time for new guns, loads, tools, etc to come around....

[richhodg66]

I find this stuff fascinating and want to give the big bore air rifle thing a try someday.

I have kind of wondered about legality of using these on deer. I don't know if Kansas rules specify that it has to be a firearm or not. I think I'll look into it more.

As a kid, I killed a lot of small game with a .177 air rifle that wasn't even a very high end gun for the day. I have been thinking of getting another one and starting that again soon.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My mate and I used to wag (not attend) school and go hunting with a pair of .177 BSA Meteor air rifles. We always lunched on Top Notch or European pigeons and / or rabbits and occasionally duck, cooked over the fire for lunch by our fav swimming spot.

[SSGOldfart]

Hummm kinda gets one to thinking

[roverboy]

The larger calibers(.357-.45) would be a lot of fun for short range deer and hog.