Some thoughts on ramrods.

[waksupi]

I was thinking about ramrods, and had some thoughts on them.

Why do ramrods break? Either from loading too tight of a ball/patch combination, gripping the ramrod too high above the muzzle, or actual flaws in the wood of the ramrod.

I have looked at hundreds, if not thousands of original muzzleloaders over the years. What strikes me, is the fact that the majority have what appears to be the original ramrod. This tells me, they were loading a combination that was easily pushed home. This thought is re-enforced by the fact that short starters were pretty much non-existent in original shooting bags. Short starters were used for target rifles, and few hunting rifles.

The best ramrod has always been hickory, split, and not run through a doweling machine. Once I have a ramrod, I like to treat them with a mixture of bear oil, and Kroil, which are excellent penetrants, and can actually permeate the wood to the center. This adds great flexibility to the rod, and helps guard against breakage.

Some places now sell ramen wood ramrods. This is a more open grain wood, and considerably weaker than hickory, as it is generally made by doweling. I don't know if this stuff could even be split. It's fairly punky. If you MUST use these, you may as well buy the dowels at Home Depot, as they are the same thing, for less money.
Lay a bunch of them on the floor, roll them to find a fairly straight one. Then check to see that there is no grain run-out in the length.

There are the synthetic ramrods, that are unbreakable. I do have one of these in one of my rifles, not because of fear of breakage, but I have had ramrods swell enough in wet weather, as to be unable to remove them from the thimbles.

Ideally for ramrod fit in the thimbles, they should be reduced to a diameter where they CAN"T stick in the thimbles when wet. If you think they are too loose after doing this, heat the rod, and put a bit of a bend in it, so it will wedge itself in place in the thimbles.

There are still a few fiberglass rods floating around. If you have one, use it for a stake in the garden. They are highly abrasive, and will ruin a barrel in short order.

[Maven]

Ric, You're 100% right about ramen ramrods. (I just broke another one the other day.) Since hickory rods are almost impossible to find in my area*, I've been using the Home Depot/Lowes poplar dowels (straight ones are the exception!). If I were to soak my poplar rod in something to temper it, does it have to be in Kroil & bear oil? Would kerosene and maybe ATF work too? Also, how long must the rod soak?


*I may just have to buy a bunch from the fellow who advertises in the classifieds in "Muzzle Blasts."

[northmn]

A good way to break ramrods when loading is to hold them too far out when starting your load. Hold them within a couple of inches from the muzzle until things start to slide a little easier. I used a 5/16 brass ramrod with a muzzle protector for years. It was tapped for jags and would fit about any caliber I had (it will not fit the 25 I am now building). Cannot argue over dowels. Even when hickory was used and doweled they tended to break also as they could get cross grained. A friend of mine used a knife to mark his load depth with a new unfinished hickory rod and it broke about as clean as you want around the light marking he used. Hot linseed oil mixed with turpentine or mineral spirits also makes a good treatment. Fiberglass rods were a joke as stated.

Northmn

[mooman76]

You can get a hickory ramrod blank from Dixiegunworks. I also heard or read you can use coal oil to soak a ramrod. I'm not even sure what coil oil is. My guess would be something like kerosen. I have several different types of ramrods. The superrod, plastic and even one fiberglass. I coated the fiberglass rod with a polymer and don't really use it much and it's just in an old CVA. I do have wooden ramrods for all my guns to keep them real. I have a very old original .32 ML that has a very old ramrod, not sure if it is the original but it is very old. Looks almost like bamboo but I believe it is hickory. It of coarse is very small in diameter because of the caliber. It has no metal or anything on the ends. Just bare wood.

[waksupi]

I imagine any fine oil would work well to penetrate the rod. I would give the ATF a shot.
I believe in the back of the old Dixie catalogs, they recommended the coal oil soak. As far as I know, this is plain old kerosene. I do know people who have used diesel fuel. When I still used the kerosene soak, I would usually have a few in a PVC tube soaking all the time. The kerosene seemed to evaporate out of the wood, though, so I quit using it. I would let them soak at least a month, and some ended up staying in the tube for a year or more.

Here's a source of hickory ramrods.

http://home.att.net/~t.glazener/wsb/html/view.cgi-catalog.html-.html

[badgeredd]

I have a couple ramrods that are 25 years old...both are hickory and both were soaked om a 50/50 mix of linseed oil and turpentine. I heated the mixture (CAREFULLY) and soaked them for a week. Took them out of the bath and let them air dry for most of the next week. They both still are flexible and seem impervious to water.

Edd

[Maven]

All, Thanks for the information on where to get hickory ramrod blanks and how to temper them!

[cajun shooter]

Coal oil was the kerosene when I was growing up in the 50's. My grand mother used it for her oil lamps and to treat many a wound that I woud get. I guess it worked as I'm now 62 so it didn't kill me. Boiled Linseed oil was put on all wood to treat it also. I remember reading many a gun article that said 4 coats of linseed oil applied to stock.

[northmn]

Many original ramrod had no tips. Many were tapered such that the end was very close to bore diameter such that you would see a trumpet head. Some even had grooves cut into them for cleaning the bore (not real common in originals). Many had a covered worm formed on one end, with sheet metal wrapped around the end instead of the machined ones we see today. Actually in originals I could say that most were probably tapered, some quite dramatically. As Waksupi stated, the loads were likely not that tight and also once about halfway down the bore they start to slide easier. Some even reverse the rod once the ball is about seated to final seat with the large end against the plam of the hand. Rapid loading of a muzzle loader may have not been as common as one would think. There are indications that they cleaned the bore after even one shot as the gun may be carried awhile before another shot is taken. Linseed oil, back then was a common oil used for a variety of purposes.

Northmn

[405]

The issue of moisture swelling thus sticking a ramrod in the pipes has been brought up. I think the oil soaking would help with that issue also. Another interesting angle dealing with ease of extraction would be the tapered ramrod. Kinda tedious to do well but adds some custom feature to the craft.

For the rod that is too loose... I've always just added a wrap or two of thin string or leather lace around one of the thimbles.

[waksupi]

I don't think linseed oil would be all that good of choice on ramrods. The viscosity is too high, and I don't believe will penetrate as well as a fine oil.

[northmn]

Linseed oil works OK if mixed 50-50 with turpentine.

Northmn

[Hanshi]

In several decades of muzzleloading I've only broken two rods, the last one just a few weeks ago. I had decided some time ago to try the kerosene treatment and only need to get the pvc. Except for hunting & field shooting I use a range rod in order to save wear on the wooden ones. I definitely find hickory a superior material.

[Potsy]

I do know from experience that when your're 19 and you have a deer flopping around on the ground 60 yards away, trying to get up, and you start your ball and then grab the ramrod a foot and a half above the muzzle and shove down quick, fast, and in a hurry, you WILL break it.

That's when 19 year olds drop their Hawkens (with powder, patch, ball, & 6" of ramrod still in the barrel) and grab their hunting knife.

I got the deer (all this for a spike, jeez) but the rest of it is too embarrassing to go into.

I've no idea what the wood is made of on my CVA Hawken now, and all it's ever been treated with is water and whatever got spilled on it, but I've trained myself not to even grab the aluminum rod on my Knight more than 6" from the muzzle.

That's the only rod I've ever broken. Doesn't seem like 17 years ago.

It actually is a very tight fitting load, a Speer .490 and an Ox Yoke .010 Patch, the tall lands in that rifle won't even allow a Hornady Plains bullet into the barrel ( I tried it once, and then figured out the twist was too slow anyway). It does require a short starter, but it shoots so well I've never tried another combination since finding that one.

Sorry for the long winded post, it just brought back memories.

[northmn]

Theres a lot to be said for carrying a smaller BP pistol for finishing them off isn't there. CVA used to make a 7 inch barreld colonial pistol which was way to bulky for its design but would work well. Parts have gotten so darned expensive its hard to build one. Loading blocks using a loose fit are also Ok.

Northmn

[oldhickory]

Does anyone think that "striping" the rods had any effect on strength?

[StrawHat]

I was thinking about ramrods, and had some thoughts on them.

[B]Why do ramrods break? Either from loading too tight of a ball/patch combination, ...

This tells me, they were loading a combination that was easily pushed home.

From what I have been told when I started out shooting you are correct. The loading combinations have gotten much larger and therefore tighter since the middle of the last century. Probably because the guys doing the hunting listen to the target shooters. Target shooters need to have a load that groups smaller than anything else and work toward that end. Hunters, realistically need a load that will group on a dinner plate at 100 yards. Two different criteria but the methods of the target shooter are the ones usually quoted.

A good hunting load can usually be found that will slide down the bore with a two fingered hold on the rod. Some of my ball/patch combinations measure just bore size, others are under bore size. They all load easy and are good enough for the dinner plate test. Just a matter of testing to find out what works.

[northmn]

For a hunting load I use a target typ load in that I use one tight enough to use a short starter and my brass range rod. However, for reloads in the field a looser load is handier. This is more true for me for small game hunting which is generally a closer range proposition. For deer hunting I really have not had a need for a "fast" reload. Last time I shot at a deer I cleaned the rifle with stuff I carried with me for that purpose before reloading. I sometimes think we get on the trail a little too quick anyway, which may push a poorly hit one farther than needed. Archers wait about 1/2 hour before tracking for that reason. But back to ramrods, Those supertight mallet started loads can be hard on them. There are tighter combinations that are practically very accurate and those that are swaged to gain an extra fraction of an inch. While I do not disagree about the plate being adequate, as archers use it, I do like a more precise load.

Northmn

[405]

For a hunting load I use a target typ load in that I use one tight enough to use a short starter and my brass range rod. However, for reloads in the field a looser load is handier. This is more true for me for small game hunting which is generally a closer range proposition. For deer hunting I really have not had a need for a "fast" reload. Last time I shot at a deer I cleaned the rifle with stuff I carried with me for that purpose before reloading. I sometimes think we get on the trail a little too quick anyway, which may push a poorly hit one farther than needed. Archers wait about 1/2 hour before tracking for that reason. But back to ramrods, Those supertight mallet started loads can be hard on them. There are tighter combinations that are practically very accurate and those that are swaged to gain an extra fraction of an inch. While I do not disagree about the plate being adequate, as archers use it, I do like a more precise load.

Northmn

Well said.

In my mind, have never figured out the idea that it is more important to demand accuracy and precise shooting when shooting targets than when shooting game?

[hamour]

My beautiful wooden ramrods stay at home. For hunting I use a solid aluminum hard coated black ramrod. works great and is light. Use a muzzle protector to avoid muzzle wear.

At the range my ss range rod works just fine.

No fear of breakage in either case.

I had a solid brass rod cut to fit my 42" jim Chambers Virginia rifle and with the addition of a T handle it works as a portable range rod or back up ramrod.

I dont like things breaking when I go out shooting or hunting.

[Hanshi]

At the range I use an ss range rod and save my wooden rods for the woods. Interestingly, the only two wood rods I broke were broken at the range and not in the woods. Go figure.

I've never really needed a fast reload in the deer woods since my habit is to stay on stand for at least 30 minutes before trailing (if it's needed). About half fall in their footie prints with the first shot and if a followup is needed I carry a flint pistol with me for coup de grace. One major benefit of staying on stand is that on many occasions a second (or even a third a few times) deer has come along and been added to my collection. It is too easy to drop balls, patches, starter, powder as it is. Shaking hands have to sooo careful with flimsy rod. Developing habit is a better fix than simple "knowledge" when it comes to gripping and pushing the rod.

As far as load I guess I kinda split the difference between target & field tightness. My loads MUST go down trouble free in the woods. I still have to use a short starter and the combo is snug, .440 ball & .015-.018 patch, for instance. the only difference between targets and hunting is powder charge. Accuracy on targets is fine.