Felix Lube - the Short Version

[waksupi]

Ken, you may want to make this into a sticky topic.

This is something that needed to follow us from the old board, for new members to use. I've made the formula corrections Corky had pointed out, to this rendition.

Felix Lube formula

2 Tablespoons mineral oil
1 Tablespoon castor oil
1 Tablespoon Ivory, or homemade soap (grated)
1 Tablespoon Lanolin
Beeswax - Piece approximately 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" X 1 "

Heat mineral (baby) oil until it starts to smoke.

Add castor oil, and stir continuously for 1/2 hour.

Sliver the soap, and stir into the mixture a little at a time, until melted.

Add the beeswax before the lanolin, and then when that is melted, reduce or remove the heat and add the lanolin, thus not running any risk of burning or scorching the lanolin.

1 teaspoon of carnuba wax can be added to give a shiny bore. This can be found on the seal of Makers Mark whiskey, or the red wax on cheese from the supermarket.

Once made, let cool. This can be remelted in a microwave, and poured into the lubrisizer.

[MARCORVET]

I have 2 questions:

1. Is this a hard lube?

2. Is this lube for smokeless or black?

[Willbird]

Maybe I'm too Anal, but I willbe glad when I have the formula distilled down better than that.

"Beeswax aprox X" by Y" made my first batch way too hard.

also how much sodium stearate for those that will use it instead of soap ?

And for the question,the lube can be soft or hard as you choose to make it,if too soft add parafine wax, if too hard add vaseline (re-melt to add either)

My final end result it decently hard, but softens as you work it,much like 50-50 beeswax/alox but not quite as soft to begin with

Bill

[Maven]

Marcorvet, Although you can use it for black powder & Pyro., it's not as good as Emmert's or some of the proprietary types. In other words, it is an excellent smokeless powder lube.

Bill, I try to adjust the hardness so that it will flow through my Lyman lube-sizer @ 50 deg. without using the external heater or if so, only briefly.

All, If you use Ivory Soap (bars), a cheese grater helps reduce it to manageable slivers in short order. It's much easier to measure when in that form. ...Maven

[Finn45]

I was a bit lost in the beginning with those measures. I noticed that using actual teaspoons and tablespoons is not very accurate; some teaspoons are relatively small compared to ones from old days etc. I figured out that one tablespoon is three teaspoons, so there's easy relation. I found out (from old cooking book) that teaspoon is 5 milliliters and tablespoon 15 milliliters. Then I figured out how much 3½x3½x1" block of beeswax is by volume, it's 12.25 cubic inches and converted it to more familiar form which happened to be very close to 2 deciliters. Now I use cheap plastic household metering cups marked "1t=5ml" and "1T=15ml" and stainless 1 deciliter metering cup for adding beeswax, which is melted in separate kettle during the oil cooking. Maybe original measures will make too hard lube or too soft lube, but at least it's easy to make changes and keep things in control. You'll find that US teaspoons and tablespoons are very close to 5 and 15 milliliters (also 1:3 hehe), but of course You use US based system. You can convert beeswax measure also to more handier unit for You. This calculator helps alot:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

[gzig5]

By rough guesstimate, it looks like about 1 1/2 - 2 cups?

If I wanted to make a big batch, is it a linear relationship for all the ingrediants?

Greg

[sundog]

Haw-haw-haw. That's a good'un! Way to go Finn. We now have MFWFL - Metric Felix World Famous Lube. Guaranteed to work in the finest 6, 6.5, 7, 8, and 9.3 mm rifles ever produced! I'm stopping on my way home to get a set of metric measures so I can make some METRIC BOOLIT LUBE as I was just getting ready to cast and load a bunch of 8x57 and 7.7 Jap. This has got to be one of the greatest discoveries of all time. You're a jewel, Finn, a real jewel! sundog

[felix]

Greg, if you could hold the temps and pressures for a big batch like you could a small batch, then the results would be close to being the same. But that's almost impossible without lab grade equipment. Besides that, there is no guarantee that your feed stock to make up the larger batch will be the same as when you made the lube before on the kitchen stove. So, the answer is NO, unless you are lucky. But then, life is too short to not have different batches of lube to play with, and that's the best excuse in existance. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Sundog

Tell me about your 7.7 Jap. I have one and it is the short rifle version, which isn't too short in my book. I've been neglecting it alot lately. I mostly shoot the Lyman 314299 out of it. Nailed me a deer with it using the 174 gr Hornadys which by the way shoot darn good out my rifle. Definately in the two inch group and under at 100 yds with the issue sights. I'm using sized and trimmed 30-06 brass in mine, haven't gotten around to buying any of the Graf's 7.7 brass for it yet.

Joe

[felix]

Bill, it would be nice if the powder manufacturers could make consistant batches, and if they did, the cost to us would approximate the cost of prescription drugs. I don't think we should even consider making equivalent batches for fear of failure. It's part of the hobby to try different powders, lubes, primers, boolit designs and compositions. Shooting BR for real is no hobby for me anymore, and I have finally, finally discovered that perfect equipment and conditions never mated with my ability to read those conditions faithfully when on the line. ... felix

[Willbird]

Well Felix, the powder mfg. come darned close :-), or rather I should say they are pretty picky about which lots they sell us as the cannister grade of that particular powder.

On the lube, I have resolved to figuire out a weight for the beeswax that results in a lube that is jussst a tad too soft. And aquire a yard sale deep fryer this summer and make batches that fit in there OK, and just store it in said cooking device, that should last me awile between batches.

any ideas on how much sodium stearate to use ??


Bill

[wills]

We may still be able to get coffee in metal cans if we buy the cheap generic grocery store brands. No telling what it might taste like. Have you ever tried lewak coffee?
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/7596/easter24.html

[Finn45]

METRIC BOOLIT LUBE

Heheheheheeeee. I didn't see it that way but it must be something, hehe. Altough this particular metric version has been producing good results with non-metric calibers for some reason. I'll found out later how it does with metric caliber in Russian based Finnish conversion of Belgian originated or something like that rifle... Oh my this is killing me...

[felix]

any ideas on how much sodium stearate to use?...
Bill

Just enough sodium stearate to prevent obvious layering of the different ingredients upon cooling.

Sodium stearate is the most questionable ingredient because of impurities, either from a manufacturer as the "pure" chemical which it ain't ever going to be, or as scraped from a soap bar. I think the purest I was ever going to pay for from a manufacturer was something under 65 percent. Ivory and most homemade simple soaps have that amount. But, every soap batch I have ever made, or bought as Ivory, has been significantly different in the amount needed to glue the lube constituents. ... felix

[Willbird]

So probably the 1 tabelespoon of sodium stearate I used may have been too much ?? Is that why even tho I measured my beeswax to the .0001" my batch initially came out way too hard ??


Bill

[gregg]

I THINK my Bees Wax was 8 oz. for the batch ????

[utk]

I measured and weighed my block of beeswax and calculated the density. It came out close to 1.
So, unless American bees are different from Swedish, a 3.5 x 3.5 x 1 piece of beeswax should weigh approximately 7 oz. (Could very well be 8 oz, I just made a rough density calculation. Or American bees produce heavier beeswax).
Start with a slightly smaller piece and add more, if not hard enough.

utk

[utk]

It has been said that Baby Oil, Mineral Oil or ATF can be used for Felix Lube.
I checked two brands of Baby Oil in the Supermarket, they both contain "Liquid Paraffin".
Do your baby oil bottles say the same thing as here in Sweden?

And, (question to Felix) is liquid paraffin a "mineral oil" suitable for lubemaking?

So far I've done fine (with my limited experience) with ATF, but would Baby Oil be better?

utk

[wills]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1054027.cms

[BruceB]

Hmmm....now that we're getting the lube question back on the front burner, so to speak, it seems my highly-selective memory has deleted the "how" of coloring the lube.

I find that SPG and Felix lube look a lot alike on a bullet, and I'd like to be able to color the stuff I make. Suggestions appreciated.

[felix]

And, is liquid paraffin a "mineral oil" suitable for lubemaking? ... Yes, it's the same for the most part. Just a different layer in the distillation towers.

So far I've done fine with ATF, but would Baby Oil be better? ... No, unless a better smell is justified. However, ATF has some synthetic slickies that you won't get with just plain ol' mineral oil, paraffin, etc. Is it better? Maybe, just depends on application.

[BruceB]

Incidentally on this lube topic, I found a comment a short while back about using commercial animal lard in bullet lubes. The comment was a warning about the salt or sodium content in at least some commercial lards, and the potential for damage in rifle barrels from this salt.

I took a quick peek at several brands in our local Albertson's store, and found none with any salt whatever on the table of ingredients. Therefore, it seems that if we just stay aware of the possibility and CHECK the label before buying, we should be OK.

This was interesting to me, since i expect to be making some blackpowder-type lube in the near future for my .45-70 Sharps. Any super recipes to recommend out there? Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject.

[utk]

Interesting post, BruceB.
I've been thinking of a way to remove the salts in lard:

Salt is water soluble but lard is not. I wonder if it would work to cook lard in a pot of water to free the salt. Pour out the water afterwards and let the lard solidify. Many cookings might be necessary before all the salts have been removed?

Another thought, can the salts be measured with an ohmmeter? Either solid or liquid lard. If there is salt in the lard, then maybe this can be measured. If so, then you can probably determine when all salts have been removed.

I'm not into BP as of yet, but I'm looking for a frontstuffer, we have a fairly active BP section in our gun club. (BP pistols, but several are interested in long guns).

utk

[sundog]

Bruce, I specifically remember the discussion about coloring lubes -- seems like it was on the old Shooters board. I also remember hanging around the cosmetics isle at the local WallyWorld reading lipstick labels and all the young girls in town cruising by giggling..., more than likely wondering who that old fat guy was getting face paint -- prolly some closet drag queen.

Anyway, after all the info Felix gave us on all the stuff that could/would harm barrels, and finding most of it listed in the ingredients, I opted for FWFL sans hues. Just as well, as I am shooting well anyway. Besides, my favorite color is translucent. Maybe Felix will weigh in again on this one and tell us about crayons, too, as I remember that there might be a problem with some of the colors. sundog

[Willbird]

I would think a stop by the butcher (there is at least ONE good one in every county in oHIo) would net quite a bit of au natural lard. usually when we had a hod butchered a pail of lard was part of the package, most people do not use it for anything.

I used to score oxtails all the time from guys I worked with "what the heck did they give me THAT for ? " I just told them we fed them to the dawg...not that they make a delicous soup. My wife was raised on a farm and even SHE thinks it's weird to make soup from them, I guess there are both types of people....those that buy store bought meat and those that raise it and have so much they won't eat oxtails.


Bill

[felix]

BLACK POWDER LUBE --- A MODIFIED FELIX LUBE
BY Pigeonroost Slim (PRS)


NOTE: Try Emmet's lube first because it might be easier. ... felix

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78136: felix; a ponder about BP lube 02/26/03-9:14 AM Posted
by: prs

Hey Ho felix!

As you likely recall, I have put together a BP lube and
relied upon your good advice and e-assistance. In spite of
that; it turned out remarkably well. It works so well that I
hate to make changes; but I just have to 'speriment.

As with felix lube, my lube calls for the oils to be brought
to a heat level of "beginning to smoke". I believe this is
done to allow the soap to be incorporated more easily. Is
that correct? Is there any other reason to use that much
heat. The basic bar soap type that I use is quite hard, but
melts easily on its own. It is a product meant to be hand
milled and liquefied and blended with other ingredients to
make a final finished bar soap. I was hoping to be able to
just blend it in with the oils well warmed.

thanks;

prs

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78137: felix; a ponder about BP lube 02/26/03-9:54 AM
Posted by: felix

PRS, no need to use heat if you don't have to. If you are
using castor oil, and any kind of petro oil (mineral, not
veggie, not animal) then you have to heat the castor oil
mixed in with the mineral component. Mineral oils are the
culprit, plus those veggie or animal oils that are quite
similar in composition to mineral oils. The final leak test
over time is the only cheap way to decipher if castor oil
will stay put without being heated (polymerized). Please
allow me to have your current recipe, if not the board.
fmr72901atjunodotcom. ... felix

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78231: felix; a ponder about BP lube 02/27/03-2:42 PM
Posted by: prs

felix and the camp: What follows is a too windy explanation
of my lube. The stuff works great. It is particularly good
for action shooting with black powder because it keeps the
fouling soft longer than other BP lubes I have tried; which
is most of them. I have no idea if it is good for long range
buff rifles and such as I am not into that; yet! I am
working on tow new variants of this which hopefully will
give me a less expensive product that is just as good. I
will also lengthen the cooking time as I have found that it
tends to cure more when re-heated and cooled several times
as I re-fill my Lyman #450 with liquidated lube. Also, this
stuff is pretty resistant to melting anyway, yet remains
fairly soft even in cold weather; thus the cap'nball folks
like it too to place over their loaded cylinders. Smells
like candy, initially tastes like candy; but then ya get
that soap taste.. bleach!!!!!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lube recipes, especially personal ones are subject to change
without notice – or with the maker’s whim. Some folks swear
by all natural food grade ingredients and shun petrol
chemicals. The old timers had things we can not get (or are
not supposed to get) just as we enjoy access to things
beyond their imaginations. Some good folks state their
satisfaction using lubes designed for smokeless powder
loads, even lubes containing allox such as the NRA formula
commercial bullet lubes. Others have contrary reports to
offer with such modern lubes in loadings with real black
powder. I am not certain that any of this topic has
application for those good folks who choose or must use
substitute black powders. I am also not going to lend my
support to any argument that only natural products or non-
petroleum based products are acceptable for black powder. I
have not personally used petrolatum (Vaseline brand
petroleum jelly) or paraffin wax, nor various silicones in
my BP lubes, but I have no doubt that some folks have done
so with success. I have tried many of the "natural"
ingredients, but certainly not all. This lube’s development
was and is an act of evolution; an ongoing process, and not
of an act of Divine intervention.

I shall share with you one of my renditions of a lube of
mostly natural things, at least natural in so far as
commercially processed goods can be. I currently use this
product in my bullet sizer/lubricator to fill the grooves of
home cast lead alloy bullets. The finished lube should be
just stiff enough to handle without mess, but soft enough to
perform admirably with black powder. This product should be
melt resistant enough to allow exposure to normal human
tolerable heat without seeping out of the groove(s) and into
the powder charge.

To keep things as simple as possible, lets make a batch size
of 100 fluid ounces. Don't worry about weight. Ingredients
that are not readily liquefied will be specified in common
volume measurements. A four quart stainless steel sauce pan
is a wonderful "caldron" for our sorcery. An adjustable heat
source such as an electric or gas range is very nice. Baking
mitts or pot holders are recommended. Cautious use of a
microwave oven can be an advantage, but great care must be
taken to avoid fire with flammable ingredients such as
beeswax. A double boiler is a great safety enhancer!

My basic formula, PRS Lube, is adapted from one I learned as
Emmert’s Formula. With Emmert’s, one takes a ratio of
50:40:10 where the first numeral represents beeswax, the
second shortening, the latter oil. I was taught to reverse
the portions of beeswax to shortening for cold season
shooting, if desired. This is an excellent lube when made
with pure beeswax, Crisco, and peanut oil. It tends to
separate over time. It can go rancid. Emmert’s may leave
something to be desired in fouling softening when it comes
to prolonged rapid fire use with black powder cartridge
arms. Some folks report an objectionable slime deposit in
their guns which they associate with the Crisco type
shortening.

PRS lube is similarly based upon the ratio of 35:35:10:10:10
plus three "adjuncts" to finish. Since we are shooting for a
100 fl oz batch, consider the ratio proportions to be fluid
ounces. The proportions, in order stated are beeswax,
Crisco, glycerin soap base, anhydrous lanolin and vegetable
oil mix. The adjuncts are 25 drops of oil of peppermint, two
tablespoons of stearic acid granules, and 0 to ?5 soap
making dye chips. The soap dye is a non-functional addition
and color of dye is up to the maker; I use bright yellow. I
do not know what the carrier ingredient of those die chips
is; hopefully nothing which will detract from our lube’s
performance. I have noticed no derogatory effects.

I hear your gasp! "Keep it simple?", you question as you
ponder that onerous list of ingredients in the long "ratio"
listing. Such is life. Beeswax is the carrier and binding
agent. I believe it has some lubricant quality in its own
right; although I have noticed some folks disputing that.
Beeswax certainly helps soften black powder fouling when
consumed in or exposed to the combustion. The best bulk
beeswax is sold by beekeepers as "cappings grade" wax. The
Crisco blends with and softens the wax. Its a good
lubricant, but more than that it gives additional moisture
to the mix when exposed to or consumed by the closed
combustion of our black powder. As mentioned above some
folks report Crisco to have left a scum fouling in their
barrels, but I have not noticed such. The lanolin is an
extraordinary lube. It has abundant moisture to offer when
combusted in our irons. Its cost may far exceed that of
Crisco or otherwise we might do well to substitute even more
lanolin in place of the Crisco. Glycerin bar soap base is a
product available to those adventurous souls who wish to
easily make their own milled specialty bath soaps. It is a
very pure and pretty product; amber, translucent, and quite
hard. Its a rather harsh soap when pure and may have enough
active lye potential to convert some added oils and fats
into soap. The soap base gives our concoction body and keeps
our ingredients in emulsion; perhaps even converting the mix
partially into a soap as we stir the caldron. Perhaps the
use of soap in my lube explains why I have not noticed the
reported sludge some folks have attributed to the Crisco.
"Now", you ask, "what is this vegetable oil mix?" My oil mix
is equal portions of olive oil, peanut oil, and castor bean
oil. Olive oil has been with me all along, maybe I could
drop it, but I have not. Peanut oil hopefully lends its
great heat tolerance to our brew. Castor oil has that
mysterious odor and may help stiffen or modify, through
polymerization, the final product through the soap making
process.

Now for the adjuncts. The stearic acid granules are not
intended to make our mix "acid" in an attempt to counter the
alkaline nature of the fouling of black powder; although any
such help could be appreciated. This common soap making and
candle making ingredient should help further bind our
ingredients into a stable more firm soap-like blend and help
with preservation. The peppermint oil? I initially used
expensive essential oil for its great smell and clean feel
in the lube, but then noticed that it gave the lube a sticky
nature that I liked; it really clings to the grooves. This
peppermint oil may also lend some preservation qualities to
our product since it is an anti fungal and anti bacterial.
The soap dye chips are pretty much self explanatory. They
make the product pretty, but are unnecessary in a functional
sense. I go sparingly with bright yellow chips. If you have
a local candle supply and soap making store, they will have
all of this except the cooking oils, shortening, and maybe
the peppermint oil which you can get at the grocery or drug
store. Get the beeswax from your local beekeepers, the honey
they have should be quite a treat too. An online source such
as www.gloribee.com (http://www.gloribee.com/) can also provide all the ingredients.

[felix]

CONTINUATION OF ABOVE POST.

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78377: felix; a ponder about BP lube 03/01/03-3:19 PM
Posted by: white owl

Prs - thank you for providing us with this recipe. I plan on
making up a batch to try for blackpowder cartridge rifle
shooting, but first need to ask one thing - Do you know how
well this lube works for pan lubing?

From the ingredients list it seems to me like it should be
OK for pan lubing. However, I know there are some lubes
that, once you make them up, they work fine in a lubrisizer,
but if you try to remelt it (as you need to do if pan
lubing), they are difficult to remelt.

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78526: A new BP lube is born; PRS- El Tigre 03/03/03-12:45
PM Posted by: prs

I kept to felix's usual good advice and got my oils smokey
hot for "polymerization". I also incorperated another
ingredient which supplies long branched hydrogen molecules
to disperse and bind oils and waxes (Zybor 103), sold for
use by candle makers. I modified my original PRS recipe to
incorperate abundant essential oil of sweet orange and I
threw in a bit of orange candle dye. I also used the Soy-
Based Econo wax instead of beeswax (but am gonna do a
beeswax batch too). A 100 fluid ounce batch is ready to use
now. It looks and smells great! If it's worth a hoot, I will
report back. Sure is pretty!

prs

[felix]

Database Is Now Broken.....

We Need A Mainframe???? Any Got One For Use?

[Scrounger]

Wouldn't colored crayons color the lube. Of course it would be stiffer, too. What about food coloring or Easter egg dye?

[tall grass]

Made my first batch of FWFL the first part of this week. Turned out great. I used about 2t of Johnson's past wax for the carnuba wax. Followed the above recipe other wise.

Thanks to Felix, Sundog, Waksupi, and everyone for the recipe and tips on how to make FWFL.

Now I've got to get some holes punched and see how it works.

Mmmm Mmmm... Ox tail stew. I see them in the super markets once in a while, Wildbird, they are pretty proud of them here.

Jim

[felix]

PRS BLACK POWDER LUBE, CONTINUED....




Lets stir off a batch:
In the SS 4 quart pot heat the 10 fl ounces of blended
vegetable oils to the point of "just beginning to smoke".

Add the 10 fl ounces bar soap base ( I liquefy mine in a
Pyrex cup in the microwave first - at your own risk there).

Add 2 level tablespoons of the steric acid granules, stir
until dissolved.

Add 35 fl oz Crisco (again, I pre-liquefy in microwave).
Cook for 20 minutes at a moderate heat level. Stir
occasionally.

Reduce heat to "low" because the remaining ingredients are
more fragile. Add 35 fl oz beeswax and 10 fl oz lanolin (I
pre liquefy in microwave with great care – beeswax is highly
flammable!) Cook at low heat for 5 minutes, stirring gently
and constantly.

Cut heat and add soap color dye chips, if desired. Stir
until dissolved/

Let cool until a skim of hardened lube just begins to form.
Add 25 drops peppermint oil and stir to blend.

Pour into your desired molds, containers, or straight into
the lube sizer. Hollow sticks are EZ to cast too. 8 ounce
jelly jars are handy to use because the microwave oven can
be used (at your risk) to liquidate just enough to refill
your lube-sizer with this liquid gold. Keep in mind,
liquefying of solid ingredients in microwave oven may be a
fire hazard. If in doubt, go by dry volume measure and cast
into hollow sticks for your sizer.

This has been an excellent lube for me. Its clean to handle,
it stays put in the lube grooves of bullets. Its fairly
soft, yet does not melt easily. When used with appropriate
bullets for black powder, the fouling stays soft and
cleaning is easy with plain soapy water or other traditional
black powder cleaning agents Enjoy your shooting of real
black powder and be safe!

Pigeonroost Slim: A man's word is his bond.

[felix]

NO, NO, NO .... WATER SOLUBLE dyes do not work! Use candle dyes, and the blue colors work best, reds second. I tried several greens and none were strong enough to work through the existing colors of the lube ingredients. Be careful of all of them, because adding too much has caused a coagulation problem thereafter upon cooling. Therefore, blue color can use the least amount, and will guarantee a blue color of some sort. ... felix

[Junior1942]

Try my "Junior Lube" for BPCR.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/lube.htm

It's easy to make. Bunches of guys make it and swear by it. I use it in two BPCR 45-70s with great success.

[ammohead]

BruceB,

Adding the wax from makers mark whiskey will color the wax a nice reddish brown. Or at least that is what it looks like to me, I'm mostly colorblind. You get the added benefit of finishing the rest of the bottle. Then you won't care what color it is.

I also add powdered motor mica to my lube but be sure to stir it as it stiffens to gravy consistency or it will settle.

ammohead

[Leadlum]

I tried adding some blue candle coloring wax, and it came out ugly green sort of? I went back to just not adding any color.
But I did buy some vanilla candle scent oil, and added it. I like the smell of it. Don`t seem to hurt anything?
I do have a question to Felix. Do I really have to stir for an 1/2 an hour?

[felix]

I do have a question to Felix. Do I really have to stir for an 1/2 an hour?

No, you don't, unless the heat is up there. Instead, in your situation, turn the heat down even further, like to 120F, and let go for an hour or two, stirring every 15 minutes or so. Try this for a one pound batch or so, and then do the lube leakage test on the window sill. If no leakage, then you are good to go. You have polymerized the castor oil enough so it won't leak out. If it leaks, then remelt and go for an another hour at 120F. Everybody, keep this in mind: if you are not going to add castor oil, then the heating process over time will provide absolutely NO benefit. It's the castor oil that leaks, and nothing else. ... felix

[felix]

Try adding some shoe polish of the color or choice. Make sure it is a KIWI or some other brand that is not a polymer. Go by smell. If it smells like petro and not some kind of candy, then use it at the tail end of the mixing process with low heat, like when adding lanolin. Heat will destroy some colors, and that is probably why some colors just won't come out right. ... felix

[Leadlum]

Felix; thanks for the reply. But I think, maybe you misunderstood me. I do use mineral oil. I just add a little of the candle scent for smell. Do I still stir for a Half an hour? Does it really take that long to mix well?

[felix]

If you are not adding castor oil, then you don't have to cook the castor oil with the petro oil(s). Cooking is for poly-ing the castor oil only, and ONLY when a petro oil is present, OR will be in the future when fine tuning the mix for an app. Keep in mind that paraffin, baby oil, ATF comes from petro oil.

A good technique is to mix castor oil and a petro oil at 50/50. Cook that, and store that in a bottle for perpetual mixing use. Now you don't have to cook the lube except just enough to mix all the ingredients for a particular batch of lube. ... felix

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Someone is apparently a regular seller of beeswax on eBay, this being the current version:

1 Pound Natural Beeswax 16-1 oz pieces (Item number: 8190685270)

Baby oil is apparently the right stuff for refilling a liquid damped marine compass. I don't know whether you would have to flush out the last traces of the toluene which is also often used. Alcohol is too liable to attack paint etc. Most of you probably don't need to know this, but those who do, would need it a lot.

[Teach]

Hi, all!
First post here. This looks like an interesting site. I cast bullets for my .45 Colt, .45 ACP, and .38/.357. The .45 Colt gets hardcast, gas-checked 300 grain bullets for deer and wild hog hunting, at about 1300 FPS. The ACP and .357's don't run quite that speed. I've been using a homemade lube I concocted from toilet seal rings and general-purpose chassis grease which is just hard enough I need to warm up my Lyman Lubrisizer a little to make it flow reliably. The formula you're discussing here seems awfully complex by comparison. Is there any particular reason for so many ingredients and all the steps to the procedure? Educate me!
Jerry

[waksupi]

Go to http://www.castpics.net/RandD/felix_lube/felix_lube.htm, for a run down on the Felix lube.It will answer quite a few questions.

[Ron]

Felix and other sages, I have just made a batch of Felix lube but i'm a wee bit suspicious of it with regard to colour and hardness. I made a batch a while back and it turned out a dark brown colour. That batch was made as per the Felix recipe using a kitchen tablespoon for measurement. For today's batch I decided to get a bit teknical and used a kitchen measuring spoon. The Australian standard tablespoon is 20mil, so this is the measure I used for "tablespoon" where mentioned in the recipe.
I recall someone on this forum posted that a 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 x 1 inch piece of beeswax weighed out at approx 8 ounces so I weighed out that amount, set it aside and started the process, following the Felix recipe to the letter with the exception of the half hour stirring of the mineral oil and castor oil, I thought 15 minutes was enough. Everything looked like it had mixed OK so I went on with the rest of it, let the mix cool down for about 15 minutes then poured it into the moulds. I have attached, I hope, the following photos (1) a stick of the first batch I made, (2) the filled moulds., (3) photo of the first stick and one made today showing difference in colour and the remaining sticks still on the dowal rods. That brings me to my next question. Does anyone know how to get the dowal out of the centre of the lube stick. I think I left it until the mould was too cold to remove it!!!! My main question is does the batch I made today look OK or should it be darker like the first batch. Today one is firm and sticky but looks more like candle wax than boolit lube. I would be greatful for any and all comments. p.s. the only differences in the way I made these batches that I can think of is (1) the spoon size and (2) the first batch may have been cooked at a hotter temperature.

Ron
"FESTINA LENTE "

[sundog]

Ron, color of the new batch looks okay to me - just about the same as the big batch Felix and I did awhile back. If you can't get the dowel out, make one slice down each side and pull the two pieces off the dowel then stick them back together. I keep my FWFL in bulk and just warm it to liquid and pour it in the luber reservoir. No more trapped air like you get with the lube sticks. I pour my lube into cupcake wrappers (in a muffin tin for a mould) and use warm them one at a time as needed in a Pyrex measure cup in the microwave. sundog

[Scrounger]

Felix and other sages, I have just made a batch of Felix lube but i'm a wee bit suspicious of it with regard to colour and hardness. I made a batch a while back and it turned out a dark brown colour. That batch was made as per the Felix recipe using a kitchen tablespoon for measurement. For today's batch I decided to get a bit teknical and used a kitchen measuring spoon. The Australian standard tablespoon is 20mil, so this is the measure I used for "tablespoon" where mentioned in the recipe.
I recall someone on this forum posted that a 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 x 1 inch piece of beeswax weighed out at approx 8 ounces so I weighed out that amount, set it aside and started the process, following the Felix recipe to the letter with the exception of the half hour stirring of the mineral oil and castor oil, I thought 15 minutes was enough. Everything looked like it had mixed OK so I went on with the rest of it, let the mix cool down for about 15 minutes then poured it into the moulds. I have attached, I hope, the following photos (1) a stick of the first batch I made, (2) the filled moulds., (3) photo of the first stick and one made today showing difference in colour and the remaining sticks still on the dowal rods. That brings me to my next question. Does anyone know how to get the dowal out of the centre of the lube stick. I think I left it until the mould was too cold to remove it!!!! My main question is does the batch I made today look OK or should it be darker like the first batch. Today one is firm and sticky but looks more like candle wax than boolit lube. I would be greatful for any and all comments. p.s. the only differences in the way I made these batches that I can think of is (1) the spoon size and (2) the first batch may have been cooked at a hotter temperature.

Ron
"FESTINA LENTE "

Wrap the dowel in plastic wrap before you pour the lube around it...

[Ron]

SUNDOG and SCROUNGER, thanks for the input. Things are easier when you stand off and look at them from a different angle. I am glad that the colour etc appears to be OK so I will stick with this unless test firing demands a change of recipe.
Re the dowel sticks, my other half said, "Why not spray it with the stuff you spray non stick frying pans with before you cook" Now she tells me!!!!! still her hearts in the right place. The other thing she said was "Wrap it in clingwrap", same as Scrounger did. I really hate it when I get two strikes in the one afternoon.
Again, thanks for your suggestions.

Ron

"FESTINA LENTE" (Hasten slowly) :)

[lar45]

Pull the dowel out when the lube just solidifies. I put my tubes in the freezer overnight. I put them all in a box and smack on the ground a few times. This usually breaks them loose from the tubes, then they can be pushed from the tubes. If not, then a 1" hardwood dowel can be hammered in to push it out. I would try putting your lube back into the tubes to support the lube and them try to push the dowels out most of the way, then pull it all out and finish with the dowel.
I use a 5/16" bolt for mine and 1" PVC pipe

[lar45]

I would stay away from the cling wrap. It may be a pain to get it out of the lube once it sets up. I tried putting a piece of wax paper inside of the tubes to get the lube to come out, but it was a huge pain. I tried some non stick spray stuff. It made the lube come out easier, but it left the surface kind of oily and not looking the best.
I pull my bolt out, then put the tube in the freezer. It works good for me. I can turn out 100 or so a day without much effort.
When business picks up, I'll make an extrudeing machine to do the work.

[utk]

In my "archives", I have this mold-making description:

10190: Felix lube carpetman: Making A Lube Mold
Material as follows for one mold: 6 inch long 1 inch Inside diameter and end cap plastic pipe. This takes care of
outside diameter of lube stick. 3/8x8 inch pipe, solid or plastic or wood, mine is solid aluminum. This takes care of center hole of lube stick. Screw the end cap to a board with 2 -3/4 inch dry wall screws along the inside edge of the end cap. Drill a 3/8 inch hole thru the center of the end cap 1/2 inch into the wood, to receive the 3/8 inch
pipe. If you drilled your 3/8 hole straight then it will be in the center of the 1 inch plastic pipe. If not drill a 3/8 inch hole in a piece of 1'' dowell to center it after filling with lube. Next you need a flat washer with a 3/8 inch hole that fits in the 1 inch pipe. I use a 1/2 inch copper pipe to push on the washer. I had let the lube cool and could pull the 3/8 inch pipe out ok, but lube wouldn't come out of the 1 inch pipe. Heated the 1 inch pipe with a hair drier and was able to push it out ok. Next time won't let the lube cool all the way to push it out. The inside diameter of my lyman lubersizers are 1 and 1/8 inches, don't know about RCBS. Leave the 3/8 inch pipe in when pushing the lube out. When the lube is out of the 1 inch pipe the 3/8 pipe might stick, don't push on the washer as it spreads the lube, just hold the lube and twist and it will come right off. Felix's basic formula makes 3 sticks, so
would be wise to make at least 3 molds or more. ben.
/* Addendum: if mold and center dowel is metal, they can be gently heated to release from lube */

[Ron]

LAR45 and UTK, thanks for your input, that's one of the things I like about this forum, there is always someone ready to help.

LAR45 I think what you suggest re the freezer is the way to go. I managed to take the first two dowels out but I think by the time I got round to the others they were well and truly cold and stuck solid. It was easy to take them out when the mould was still slightly warm.

UTK, I saw your posting of how you built your moulds but I thought it was a bit too testicle for my liking. I also saw a setup on the Carbine Tree site and made mine similar to that. Only seven tubes but that suits me at present. See photo on my original post.

Thanks again, I am sure that with all the ready suggestions I will eventually get it right. I hope that if I become a pain in the a..... that someone will let me know, nicely please!

Regards, Ron

FESTINA LENTE

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was a bit lost in the beginning with those measures. I noticed that using actual teaspoons and tablespoons is not very accurate; some teaspoons are relatively small compared to ones from old days etc. I figured out that one tablespoon is three teaspoons, so there's easy relation. I found out (from old cooking book) that teaspoon is 5 milliliters and tablespoon 15 milliliters. Then I figured out how much 3½x3½x1" block of beeswax is by volume, it's 12.25 cubic inches and converted it to more familiar form which happened to be very close to 2 deciliters. Now I use cheap plastic household metering cups marked "1t=5ml" and "1T=15ml" and stainless 1 deciliter metering cup for adding beeswax, which is melted in separate kettle during the oil cooking. Maybe original measures will make too hard lube or too soft lube, but at least it's easy to make changes and keep things in control. You'll find that US teaspoons and tablespoons are very close to 5 and 15 milliliters (also 1:3 hehe), but of course You use US based system. You can convert beeswax measure also to more handier unit for You. This calculator helps alot:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

It's funny, where I come from a teaspoon was the small spoon you stirred your tea/coffee (nobody drank coffee when I was a kid) with, a dessertspoon was the one you ate your sweets (desserts in fancy restuarants) and it was twice the size of a teaspoon and finally, a tablespoon was the big spoon you cooked or served with. One tablespoon equalled two dessertspoons or four teaspoons. The yankee tablespoon is the old imperial dessertspoon. They now equate to 5mm/10mm and 20mm respectely.

It is a shame American's can't do metric, it is sooooooooo much easier.

I grew up on imperial, learnt metric in the army, returned to imperial when I left, went back to using metric when I started driving a truck, back to imperial when I gave that away, and the country then converted to metric and I have been using it ever since. I ain't going back.
Mick.

[Blackwater]

If anyone wants to convert the measures here to another measure, and like me, can't remember the factors, go to:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

It'll convert just about anything to just about anything else. FYI.

[utk]

You can also download a handy converter from the site below and install it on your computer:

http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/

[Newtire]

Yeah UTK,
The Josh Madison one is the one I use all the time. Great for converting all kinds of units of measurement and the price is right.

[mag_01]

:coffeecom I try to keep it simple----use a sardine can ---- heated over a wood stove in my workshop---when I add bees-wax I leave room for parifin to harden the mix---parifin is the weakest ingredient in the mix (poor lube) and if u desire more lube add a little more caster oil---fills my lubersizer about 2 times---may make up 2 or 3 sardine cans at the same time--lookin to do some cookin have fun------Mag_01 :-)

[357maximum]

while trying to make felix lube, I was using homemade(boughten) soap. Apparently not all are created equal. I was having a real time getting to what I thought was the right consitancy for a lube. Created a lube that shot ok, but wasn't what I wanted. Turns out the homemade soap I was using, was wrong. It was something my wife had kickin around. Ran out of it and bought ivory and presto instant results. I must admit this lil bar of whatever it was really kicked me in the face. I don't know what exactly that soap was missing, but obviously it was not right.

[felix]

Homemade soaps contain glycerin. Ivory soap does too when first made, but the price of glycerin on the open market exceeds the price of the "soap". So, they take all the glycerin out before the soap is made into its final form and packaged for sale. Glycerin content is the enemy for making a non-water based lube. Some water soluble lubes will have some glycerin, maybe, depending on purpose. ... felix

[357maximum]

The knowledge that is shared here is astounding, thanks

[44man]

I never bother making sticks but for all of you who do, why not use a copper tube to make the hole. After it gets hard, put a hose on the end of the copper tube and make a fitting for a hair dryer or heat gun on the other end. Blow hot air through the tube until the lube softens and pull out the tube.
A fitting on the end of the tube could be made to take the end of a propane torch too. Just blow some flame through the tube.
Don't ask me if it will work, just a thought.

[357maximum]

I am gonna try aluminum arrow shafts when I get around to it.

I cannot see why it would not work, plus with a metal funnel you could theoreticall give em some heat from the torch.

[utk]

Felix,

The only two soaps here in Sweden containing sodium stearate also contains glycerin. One soap is a "block" for melting into your own molds, and the other is a regular soap bar sold as "glycerin soap".
I've made a batch of FWFL with the latter which seems ok as far as I can tell. Was I succesful because of low glycerin content... or?
How much of glycerine does it take before it becomes a problem, and how can you tell you've "got a glycerine problem"?

Urban

[felix]

Urban, if the lube works on all accounts, then I don't think I would worry about it. Low percentages of certain things do not seem to hurt the final product as you have found out. Paraffin tends to soot up the barrel before you are done for the day. But, different grades of paraffin exist. The finer grades, higher in the distilling towers, seems to hold out a little longer before accuracy goes south to a noticable degree. If you are having problems keeping your groups alive, shout back. That is the most important thing. Keep in mind what the average grouping most of us obtain, and compare yours to that. ... felix

[DrTrott]

I have been wanting to try a batch of felix lube but am having a hard time locating lanolin. Any help would be deeply appreciated.

[carpetman]

Dr Trott---I got my anhydrous lanolin by ordering it through the Wal Mart pharmacy. They had to order it but only took a day or two. It is rather hard to find in most places,seems those Montana guys are hoarding it.

[Lead pot]

Last time I got Lanolin I got it from Osco's they had a one pound bulk jar on the shelf for about $11.

Kurt

[Scrounger]

Last time I got Lanolin I got it from Osco's they had a one pound bulk jar on the shelf for about $11.

Kurt

I think CarpetMan has a pretty good quantity of it for sale....

[Calamity Jake]

Lanolin by the pound: fromnaturewithlove.com (about $8.50+S&H the last time I bought any)

[Machado]

Gentlemen, I'm new to this forum. I've been casting my own for over 30 years, and my homemade lube includes pure beeswax, carna&#250;ba wax, a tad of general purpose chassis grease, powdered graphite and beef tallow all molten together and poured into the lubesizer. Works well with 240 hard cast, gas checked bullets fired from a Rossi 92 .44 magnum rifle at velocities in excess of 1,600 fps.
I hail from a country under communist rule; I envy your freedom and your liberty.
Machado

Better dead than red.

[waksupi]

Welcome aboard, Machado.

[StarMetal]

What I see here is a "amateur chef" approach to making lube. A little dab of this, alittle dab of that. Fact is that alot of the ingredients being used here will lube fine to a degree. Beeswax alone will lube. So some get a hair brain idea that "Hey..boy..STP sure is tacky slick stuff...I'll throw some of that in" or "Hmmm...this moly grease sure works good on my wheel bearing..might make good lube" and "Wow..RCBS case lube is good enough for lubing cases...should work good in my lube mix" and the list goes on vaseline, lard fat, olive oil, peanut oil, powdered graphite, the kitchen table, pepper, wire pulling lube (gotta be from Lowe's tho), give me those crayone kid, etc, etc.

Fact is plain good ole 50/50 Alox/beeswax is hard to beat for dang near 90 pecent of the applications. A few of the big honchos here use (won't mention me) like Buckshot, Deputy Al, and more. Why? Because it works, always did and always will.

I've made my own lube. Fact is it's a waste of time and effort when you can buy it cheaper and without the fuss and mess, or having to order or look for anhydrous lanolin, or saving wax off of wine bottles, or shaving Ivory soap into the batch. I'd have to say that darn near 100 % of all these homebrewed lubes are placebo's to person that's making and using them. I've used alot of commecial lubes, Javelina, Lymans stuff, RCBS stuff, and various hard lubes from the big makers. None if them failed me. My pick out of those just mentioned??...Javelina. Now if I was certain that Javelina still uses Alox 2138F Alox, which they still claim they do (and I can't see how since it quit being manufactured along time ago...replaced by 350 Alox) I'd buy them out...the whole warehouse. But I don't think they are using 2138F unless they had 20 warehouses full of it. I also don't believe the 350 Alox is as good. If it is then I say buy Lars lube as it's a super good deal.

Dale 53 is right about how to fill your luber reservoir...why fool with moulds for lubesticks....all the work, the mess, the equipment you need for it....nope can't beat melting it and pouring it into your luber/sizer AND it does have any air pockets that way either.

Well that's my 79 cents on it......and ya know the old saying...opinions are like buttholes....and everyone has one.

:coffee:
Joe

[DEVERS454]

Felix lube is all I use from now on for smokeless loads...

I took my rugers revolvers and my winchester levergun to the range the other day.

45lc with various powders and loadings. (cowboy to magnum)

My stainless 45lc Redhawk had a perfectly blue "lube star" at the end of the barrel after shooting Lee 300gr gas checked/felix lubed bullets. Same for my winchester with WFN 260gr bullets. (only, hard to tell if it was blue at the end)

I used a full tablespoon of Carnoba wax as well as a couple of broken blue crayons from my daughters "junk drawer" to color the lube.

Barrels were PERFECTLY shiny. A couple of quick patches with Kroil and hardly any residue. (Clays Universal is like that in the first place, but, no leading as far as I could detect)
I'm convinced...

[Marlin Junky]

I read most of this thread and now I need some aspirin. What I'm looking for is a lube that won't melt in the sun. I still have some Javelina left over from the '80s but it doesn't hold up well when the temp gets over about 95F. All my shooting is done from rifles and carbines these days. All shooting is usually under 2200 fps with pan lubed bullets.

MJ

P.S. BTW what the heck is with my title, "Boolit Mold"? Mold is something that grows in the shower. I use moulds to cast bullets. Is "Mold" a play on words to suggest someone just coming on is not worthy, or hasn't evolved. :-)

[waksupi]

I read most of this thread and now I need some aspirin. What I'm looking for is a lube that won't melt in the sun. I still have some Javelina left over from the '80s but it doesn't hold up well when the temp gets over about 95F. All my shooting is done from rifles and carbines these days. All shooting is usually under 2200 fps with pan lubed bullets.

MJ

P.S. BTW what the heck is with my title, "Boolit Mold"? Mold is something that grows in the shower. I use moulds to cast bullets. Is "Mold" a play on words to suggest someone just coming on is not worthy, or hasn't evolved. :-)

MJ, I have had boxes of bullets set in the pickup in summer heat, wearing FWFL. Never had any problem, as long as the mix os follewed correctly.

Mold? Mould? Mold is the instrument used to make a bullet.
Mould is what you have done, once you have cast an object.

[Marlin Junky]

waksupi,

Mould and mold are equivalent... I was just trying to be funny. Mould is the British spelling that has hung around since there's so may uses for the term mold/mould. Lee calls 'em molds, Lyman and RCBS calls 'em moulds... no big deal.

What ingredient(s) give FWFL its higher melting point? Is it the soap? There are many ways to acquire soap either hand made or purchased and their composition has to vary considerably.

MC

[utk]

This is Felix' reply in a post, a long time ago:

Reply to : Ihaveissues
Yes, just about any organic something like wax, oil, etc., will melt powder. This can be prevented by storing all rounds boolit down, and by adding enough sodium stearate to the lube to keep its melting point above 180F (82C) for summer shooting. After making a batch, leave a golf ball sized ball on a piece of kitchen roll paper in the hot sun all day. If the lube turns more clear in color with no leaks down onto the paper, the lube is about perfect. If no slight color change, you added too much sodium stearate. If considerably more clear and you see leaks, then remelt adding more sodium stearate. Sodium sterate is more highly concentrated in Ivory bar soap rather than in other soaps. That is not saying other soaps won't have this ingredient (from manufacture) but I don't know which ones do what. Only SODIUM stearate will raise a lube's melting point. Other stearates will not alter or will even lower (Aluminum) the melting point of a lube. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

UTK,

If I were able to find pure sodium stearate from a chemical supply outfit, how much should I add to 16 ounces of lube (beeswax and oil) in order to get the melting point up to 180F?

MJ

[Ron]

I bought a kilo of anhydrous lanolin and a litre of castor oil through my vet. My daughter works for him so that made things a bit easier. The Lanolin cost AUD$21.00 and the castor oil, AUD $9.00 inc. tax. This is a LOT cheaper than buying through a pharmacy who charge like wounded bulls. Vets use both items for treatment of animals, especially in country areas with livestockl The vet was only too pleased to order it for me and knew what I wanted it for. I reccommend trying your local vet for these supplies instead of buying from high priced pharmacies.
Then yesterday I paid a visit to one of our apiarists and bought a slab of beeswax, 8.6kilos for AUD$94.50 ($11 per kilo) Cant wait to start production of FWFL with variations.

BTW the AUD is worth 25% less than the USD.

Regards,

Ron

FESTINA LENTE.

[Marlin Junky]

It sounds like sodium stearate needs a lot of heat to melt, so you've got to get it right the first time. In other words, you just can't add more after the lube is done. Who's this Felix cat anyway? Does the Professor, Poindexter and General Clang hang out here too?

I can find all the ingredients, I just don't want to waste my time and money while the wife complains about the mess I'm making in the kitchen. Should I get a hot plate for the garage?

MJ

[Hip's Ax]

MJ, thats what I did back a few years when I started making Culver's Magic Stock Paste. Got enough things to worry about without an open flame around stuff like this. (We have a gas stove)

[Marlin Junky]

I received my 2 ounce sample of sodium stearate today. Now I'm preparing to make 2 batches of lube, one with 2 tablespoons of grated Ivory soap and one with ?? (quantity unknown) of sodium stearate. Problem is, 2 tablespoons of finely grated Ivory soap contains a lot more air than the same volume of this talcum powder-like stuff they call sodium stearate (unless I pack the grated Ivory into a solid lump). So the question is, how much sodium stearate do I use to get the equivalent amount of stearic acid contained in 2 tablespoons of finely grated Ivory soap?

'Nuther question: I want to use extra light olive oil because of its high smoking point along with the castor oil and am wondering if I need to also use mineral oil to increase the shelf life of my lube. Olive oil has the least amount of polyunsaturated fat of all the cooking oils I can find on grocery store shelves but I suppose mineral oil is even more stable. So, I thought 2 tablespoons of each oil (olive, mineral and castor) might be pretty cool (for a double batch of WFL).

Thanks for your help.
MJ

[utk]

IMHO, if you want the properties of FWFL, don't include anything but what the recipe says...

[Marlin Junky]

UTK,

The problem with the recipe at the beginning of this thread is the imprecise nature of the ingredient amounts. The soap should at least be given in weight, not tablespoons of grated soap. Actually, I think the amount lanolin and beeswax should be given in weigh measurements too. Somewhere else I read the amount of soap that can be dissolved in the oil depends on the oil temperature and mineral oil starts smoking at a lot lower temperature than most cooking oils. I'm after repeatability and a high lube melting point without a lot of fiddling around. Am I asking for too much?

MJ

[utk]

MJ, I totally agree with you in everything!
What I was thinking about was the olive oil, it isn't mentioned in the recipe.

I too would like more precise measurements. One reason for being imprecise could be for example, the soap can contain different amounts of sodium stearate, it can differ between batches. This was said by someone, Felix I think.
So getting pure sodium stearate would probably be a way towards a more "fixed" recipe. If any of the other ingredients can vary in "chemical power" I don´t know, perhaps the type of mineral oil used? ("baby oil", atf etc).

Urban

[utk]

Forgot to comment:
About oil temperature and dissolving the soap: maybe the amount of stearate dissolved/melted with the "average" mineral oil is enough?

Urban

[Marlin Junky]

That's why I want to make two batches: one with Ivory and one with SS (all else equal) and test them side by side this summer. I've already played around with melting Ivory in hot oil and one tablespoon of finely grated Ivory wouldn't melt in 2 Tbs of mineral oil and 1 Tbs of castor oil. I had some white lumps floating around in my smoking oil. I guess what I'll do if none of the experts chime in is simply turn the Ivory into the finest powder I can and use 2 Tbs in one double batch and 2 Tbs of the sodium stearate in the other double batch. My oil will be 2:2:2 (olive, mineral and castor) in each batch.

Or maybe a better solution would be 2:1 olive oil to castor oil for each batch. I think I may make a batch this weekend with just olive oil and castor oil to see how it works out. I'll try to get the temp way up there without smoking and toss 2 tablespoons of finely grated (whatever that means) Ivory into a total of 6 tablespoons of hot oil. I don't want to experiment with my sodium stearate until I know what I'm doing because I only have 2 oz. of this stuff and I had to write a half dozen companies before scoring that little sample. What's so special about sodium stearate that the chemical companies are so stingy about it? I ran into a few companies on the internet that were happy to send samples of anhydrous lanolin that weighed up to a half pound.

I also want to get a candy thermometer that'll clip to the side of a sauce pan. I'll let you know how it all turns out.

MJ

[Hip's Ax]

I made my first batch of Felix Lube today and it took a long time and more heat than I thought it would to get the 1 tablespoon of Ivory to melt in the mineral and castor oil. It did eventually all melt though, almost gave up a couple of times and went on but just couldn't with those lumps in the pot. The mix had a frothy look for a long long time so after what felt like a half hour I increased the heat and in several minutes I looked and it was clearing up. I grated the Ivory as fine as I could with a 4 sided grater using the side you'd use for carrots, it is an old bar that has been in my bathroom for years, new in the wrapper but years old just the same. The label is even different. Sprinkled the Ivory in the pot in about 4 or 5 steps and kept stirring until I thought it was incorporated. Grated the bees wax too and that melted faster than I thought it would, took it off the heat and the 1 tablespoon of lanolin (pure beige grease not anhydrous) melted in less than a minute. I poured it all into a plastic tub and I am waiting for it to cool completely so I can give it the old thumbnail test to see if I think its to hard or soft. I can see how this can become addicting. :mrgreen:

[Marlin Junky]

Hip's Ax,

Was your mineral/castor oil blend smoking when you added the soap? Did you by any chance happen to weigh the soap before adding it to the hot oil?

MJ

[Hip's Ax]

Yes, the oil mixture was smoking when I added the Ivory. No, I didn't weigh the Ivory, just dipped into the ziplock bag of grated Ivory with a regulation kitchen measuring tablespoon, shook it level and added it slowly as per the directions. Lube is cool now and seems what I would think is perfect hardness according to my thumb press test, harder than Alox/Beeswax and softer than Zambini. I'll let it sit a while longer to make sure the center is cool then I'll cut it and look for seperation, from the looks of the outside it stayed mixed perfectly.

[Hip's Ax]

I just cut the lube cake in half, no indication of seperation or layering at all. A nice uniform beige color throughout. :drinks:

[Marlin Junky]

Excellent... I was pretty sure it wasn't going to separate though. The $64.00 question is, at what temperature does it melt?

MJ

[357maximum]

Excellent... I was pretty sure it wasn't going to separate though. The $64.00 question is, at what temperature does it melt?

MJ


HOT, HOT, HOT and SLOOOOWLY

[Doc - J]

Has anyone tried using bees wax, liquid Alox, and ivory?

[Marlin Junky]

I just finished up a batch of lube with the following contents:

3 Tbs. each of mineral, castor and "Extra Light Olive" oils
1 ounce (weighed on a powder scale) of finely grated Ivory Soap
14 ounces beeswax
4 Tbs. anhydrous lanolin

The oils were heated together at 300F for about one hour and stirred occasionally. At 300F this blend of oil occasionally gave off a wisp of light smoke. One ounce of finely grated Ivory is about a palm full and I was surprised when all of it melted into a meringue like foam. I took the stuff off the burner and placed a 14 oz. chunk of beeswax in the pan and realized it was going to need more heat in order to melt so I placed the hot plate on low and went away for a few minutes. When I returned the beeswax was only partially melted so I turned up the heat a bit more. Long story short, the concoction didn't become homogenous and thin enough to pour until above 225F which is where I added the 4 Tbs. of lanolin. After which I kept stirring as the temp climbed to 250F which is where I poured it through a piece of cheese cloth into a mayonnaise jar. It appeared there were a few lumps of undissolved Ivory.

After cooling, the lube has about the consistency of silly putty and is nearly as sticky as Javelina with a thick, slick feel to its residue. I just took a sample out of the refrigerator and although it's a bit firmer, after rolling it in my fingers I now have it all over my keyboard. I think it was a success... especially if this stuff's melting point is over 200F! Excuse me while I clean up my keyboard.

MJ

P.S. OK... I got most of it off my keys now, and placed a sample in the oven set half way between 150F and 200F. I'm going to leave it there for about an hour and see what happens.

[13Echo]

The reason the Ivory soap gives you the foam is that it contains a considerable amount of water. As the water converts to steam it makes the foam. It also absorbs a large amount of heat Once the water is gone the soap will dissolve, slowly. If your sodium sterate powder is anhydrous an ounce of it will give you much more than an ounce of Ivory soap. By the way Felix does condone Peanut Oil in place of the Mineral Oil. I use the peanut oil since I sometimes use this lube with black powder. I suppose the unsatureated Olive Oil will be much healthier for my firearms. Help them keep that lean look and prevent atherosclerosis of the bore.

Jerry Liles

[Marlin Junky]

13Echo,

That sounds logical to me. The first batch of lube I made with a bar of Ivory straight from the grocery store grated more like cheese opposed to the second batch where I used a bar I found under the sink which was probably years old and grated into powder. I used 1/2 ounce of the "fresh" Ivory in the first batch and it created much more foam than the second batch with twice as much "aged" Ivory.

MJ

[robertbank]

This stuff is great. I made mine using the basic formula and have had great results with it in my pistols, No leading! My wife donated a large pyrex measuring cup so I can pour the lube into my RCBS lubricator. I re-melt it in her micro wave. Takes about 8 minutes on high to get clear liquid then just pour. Cools quick and away you go.

Take Care

Bob

[JackOfAllTrades]

I don't have time to cook in the kitchen.

Where can I buy some of this?

-Steve

[robertbank]

The beauty of this elixar that cures every ailment known to man and also doubles as a great lube for your boolits young man can be had for the cost of the incrediants. Not a dollar, not 10 dollars, nope from your corner of the garage to your lubsizer all it costs is time cuz you gotta make the darn stuff yourself..:mrgreen:

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Where were you two guys when the fellows down the street got upset over the tax on tea.:mrgreen:

Felix Lube is the elixer of life - can't be made the same batch after batch making Felix Lube is an art not a science, kind of like life. No set formula just seems to work over a wide spectrum of applications cuz it comes out in a wide variety of ways. I added a pinch of commercial lube to add colour - it came out crappy light creamy green. Should have added two pinches.

Take Care

Bob

[waksupi]

Notice how many views this subject has had? Holy Cow!

[NucEm]

After reading everything in here about making the lube i have started to locate all the ingrediens. Never made my own before, and i will surely end upp making my own action and barrel too before long.[smilie=1: My own bullets and my own lube in my own cartridges sounds better if i add my own gun and barrel too:mrgreen: Thanks for all the information, iam on my way to get all the stuff needed and melting time is near:-D

[robertbank]

Since you are about to join the club here are a few life tips worth noting:

1) Always ask your bride which pot you can use before starting.

2) IF you have a stove fan over your stove turn it on before you start. Probably isn't necessary but your bride will think you are thinking of her.

3) Stir the ingreidants as you add them. This gives your bride the impression you know what you are doing. That way what ever the results are you can always claim that is how it is supposed to be.

4) Ask before using your brides measuring cup to store the lube in. Women, I discovered, have a thing for measuring cups their mother gave them. Kind of a female attachment I guess.

5) When pouring the lube into your lubricator have a pail or old towel under the lubricator to protect the floor from spillage. Women really hate cleaning up spilled Felix lube.

6) Pay attention to how much lube you have poured into the lubricator. Surprisingly it doesn't take much to fill it.

7) Let the lube harden BEFORE you attempt to lube a bullet.

Don't ask how I discovered the above tips. It only took a week of silence for my girl to get over my first attempt at making the lube. As an aside the lube worked really well.

Take Care

[Rick459]

here's a link for a place to find most of the ingridents:

http://www.thesage.com/catalog/FixedOil.html

HTH
Rick

[hopper_64]

After reading everything in here about making the lube i have started to locate all the ingrediens. Never made my own before, and i will surely end upp making my own action and barrel too before long.[smilie=1: My own bullets and my own lube in my own cartridges sounds better if i add my own gun and barrel too:mrgreen: Thanks for all the information, iam on my way to get all the stuff needed and melting time is near:-D

Hi, you can get almost all ingredients here: http://www.crearome.se/
and the soap (tvålmassa) with sodium stearate at www.pandurohobby.com

Jocke

[Newtire]

I added the 1/2 (by volume) Molybdenum Sta-Lube brand automotive grease to the already made Felix lube and it came out more workable than the straight Felix-Lube. Fired 10 full-power .30-30 AI loads without any leading using 170 gr. 311407 (group buy mold) bulliet. got great accuracy with both lubes. I bought a sizer base heater for the regular Felix lube and it flows better for sure without having to torque so much on the pressure screw. I don't think I will ever buy anymore lube for sure!

[Doc - J]

I was just looking at my shaving cream.. Barbasol in spray can. ingrendents include "stearic acid'. Has anyone played with this?

[felix]

Stearic acid, soap without a metalic element association, has a very slight hardening effect, and lowers the lube melting point. Sodium, a good companion making sodium stearate, is the only usuable stearate which will raise the melting point. Stearic acid is not needed in our lubes, generally speaking. ... felix

[Char-Gar]

Wow.. What a horror story! I suspect this will throw the delivery of the Fatter 30 behind, but that is of no consequence. Maybe, Lee will keep their eye on the ball better when they start to cut that order. This much recutting and loss might teach them a lesson on how to cut molds to specs.

[jtmonroe]

Cures moles, colds, sore a$$**les and makes childbirth a pleasure!!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

A wise man once told me that the only truly satisfied person was a dead one.

From reading this thread it appears that you alll are alive and well!

[JSH]

Ken, you may want to make this into a sticky topic.

This is something that needed to follow us from the old board, for new members to use. I've made the formula corrections Corky had pointed out, to this rendition.

Felix Lube formula

2 Tablespoons mineral oil
1 Tablespoon castor oil
1 Tablespoon Ivory, or homemade soap (grated)
1 Tablespoon Lanolin
Beeswax - Piece approximately 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" X 1 "

Heat mineral (baby) oil until it starts to smoke.

Add castor oil, and stir continuously for 1/2 hour.

Sliver the soap, and stir into the mixture a little at a time, until melted.

Add the beeswax before the lanolin, and then when that is melted, reduce or remove the heat and add the lanolin, thus not running any risk of burning or scorching the lanolin.

1 teaspoon of carnuba wax can be added to give a shiny bore. This can be found on the seal of Makers Mark whiskey, or the red wax on cheese from the supermarket.

Once made, let cool. This can be remelted in a microwave, and poured into the lubrisizer.

I have read and reread this thread top to bottom front to back. The above isn't what my original recipe was. I have it printed off and put away for safe keeping, I have yet to find it,lol.
My first batch I made came out excellent. I don't recall what size of batch it was, as I determined that by the size of the block of beeswax. I took the above to a batch X4. The oils and soap didn't come out as I remember. The first batch of oils and soap came out almost like snot or warm glue. This batch of oils and saop looked more like gravy? I did turn the heat down a bit and it seemed to come back into more of a liquid. It may have been almost to the boiling point for what I had in the pot. It is cooling as I type this. Another hour and I will look and see if it seperated. I think not as I used a heaping T of soap instead of level.
I did use a grater this time rather than shave it with a razor blade. That may have caused a problem on the looks of it. The grater was a rather course one.
Also, did "we" ever decide on what "Beeswax - Piece approximately 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" X 1 " " ever was? I called it 8 oz, so I used 2 pounds + or- beeswax.
I read the replys from the others that it never seems to come out the same, but still with good results never the less. We will see.

Also some of the fellows that are wanting to make this and are on a budget or just plain old want to stay in good graces with the queen bee. Stop by the second hand stores,aka Goodwill, Salvation Army etc. They usually have an assortment of odds and ends pots and pans and large stirring spoons. Also make sure and at least glance through the books, you may be suprised at what you find. I stopped in one this past summer and found several large stainless steel spoons and strainer type spoons with handles about 18" long for $1 each. Some had "US" stamped on them, those were kept back for proper use. I asked if they had any more like them and the gal said yes but smaller,hmmm. She a couple of shoe boxes full of the newest looking alum. handled US marked mess kits I had seen. $3 for all of them, curosity got the best of me, any little funny looking pans back there too? Yes sir, how many do you want? How much per each or for the whole bunch? The whole bunch, forks spoons knives and mess kit tops and bottoms, $15, SOLD.
The kids didn't think much fo the new "dish set" and silver ware,lol. The daughter doesn't think I am nuts, she knows I am.
Jeff

[Newtire]

Hi JSH and the rest of you aspiring or accomplished Felix-Lube makers out there. I am of a mind that some things work even ifj you try to screw them up. To tell you the truth, no way did I sit outside and stir the oils for 1/2 hr. I mixed up the stuff, added the soap and stirred it for 10-minutes tops. then added the Beeswax in little chunks and made sure I didn't burn it or catch it on fire. I stirred in some lanolin hair dressing (since then I found lanolin in our local hippie market). I even just put a dab of Tre-wax car polish in since it said it had a high concentration of carnauba. It smells like hair-doo stuff but really am satisfied with how well it works. I use alot of Liquid Alox but this stuff was fun to make and I have lots now and it works great even with full-power .30-30 loads. I got a huge chunk of beeswax from a guy on our board and I am set! ramble ramble...

[JSH]

Well it didn't seperate is the good thing.
It is a bit softer than the last batch I made. I am hoping that it will harden up a bit as it gets to a netural room temp. If it is to soft I guess just add some more beeswax? The wax I used was from the fellow in NV that had the big lot. It does look to be more refined. The block I got from the hobby store had a honey smell to it. This batch looks like shortening to me, or lard. I can take a table knife and cut some out pretty easy. I would say it is about as sticky and soft as the RCBS lube. I may just put a dab more beeswax in it.
Actually I had thought I put enough beeswax in it to make it on the hard side.
I will give it a few days and see. Will also check back here through out the week to see what some of you fellows think.
Jeff

[Edward429451]

What a great thread...

I have all my ingrediants together and am ready to try makin a batch of FWFL. I could've swore that somewhere in the thread it was said that you could use olive oil for the castor oil, so I got that. Now that I re read it I don't see that but Felix said at one point ...

"...If you are not adding castor oil, then you don't have to cook the castor oil with the petro oil(s). Cooking is for poly-ing the castor oil only, and only when a petro oil is present, or will be in the future when fine tuning the mix for an application. Keep in mind that parrafin, baby oil, ATF comes from petro oil..."

Soooo, is castor oil essential or will I be OK subsituting the olive oil and keeping the rest of the recipe exact?

THX.

[felix]

Castor oil NOT required. ... felix

[carpetman]

If you substitute olive oil Im not sure if you need virgin olive oil or extra virgin or if you need the non virgin type---not sure what it's called **** maybe? Ever seen olives doing it?

[JSH]

Well, the lube stayed a bit softer than I had wanted. I put a small chunk of candle in it to stiffen it up a bit. It has now set for a couple of days and seems to be pretty close to what I wanted. I think some one said the parafin would cause some smoking??
Also stopped at the hobby store this past week and got some wax dye, 3 colors. They had it on the clearance shelf for $1.09. They also had some small blocks of dye. I did look around there in their candle moulds to see if they had any molds that i could have used to make some sticks, no luck. I will just keep melting and pouring for now I guess.
Jeff

[robertbank]

Oddly enough I find melting and pouring much more convenient then the sticks but then I am kind of weird.

Take Care

Bob

[Edward429451]

Alright, I'm cookin today. After work of course...

The batch of olives I have must have been promiscuous...

thx

[Edward429451]

I made a double batch of it yesterday and from what I can tell, it came out great. I havent tested it for leakage yet but I think it will be ok. I'll know tonight.

It only took about 30 or 40 minutes to make since I didn't have to cook, only melt. I cut it last night to look for layering and it mixed well. It was so low impact on the kitchen that she says I don't have to make it outdoors...! She didn't like the smell when the ivory melted but it wasnt bad.

I wont be able to lube or shoot any until after next week but I think we have a weiner here. It turned out harder than alox but softer than my RR hard lube. One whole blue crayon colored it to a nice greenish blue. I plan on trying it on a crapload of 429421's I have sitting there first.

From what I can tell, I made about 56 dollars worth of lube as compared to the 4 dollar a stick RR, with enogh beeswax left over for another 14 sticks/ 56 dollars worth.

Woohoo, FWFL on the shelf.

[PineTreeGreen]

Wills,I did see your post before you edited it. I do understand your total frustration over plastic coffee cans. Not to worry,there is help available. Dr Phil will soon have a seminar offering help for those on the brink from plastic coffee can syndrome.(PCCS) It will require both you and your spouse to attend as it is a family dysfunction.

My mother used to stretch those metal windings from coffee and Spam cans and use them for icicles on our Christmas tree:coffee : Be careful they are sharp.

[ron brooks]

If you substitute olive oil Im not sure if you need virgin olive oil or extra virgin or if you need the non virgin type---not sure what it's called **** maybe? Ever seen olives doing it?



No now, it's not called ****, it's called "experienced", or maybe it should be called "friendly". There doesn't that sound nicer?:mrgreen:

Ron

[PerversPépère]

Interesting post, BruceB.
I've been thinking of a way to remove the salts in lard:

Salt is water soluble but lard is not. I wonder if it would work to cook lard in a pot of water to free the salt. Pour out the water afterwards and let the lard solidify. Many cookings might be necessary before all the salts have been removed?

utk

Yes, exactly like you do when you want to recover duck and goose grease for cooking and there's a good salt content in it from the cooking: you boil it with a good amount of water.
Salt will mix readily with the water and upon cooling, the grease will be clean and salt free. Refrigerate and you can pull the cake of hardened grease easily.
I guess lard would do exactly the same. :-D
PP.

[Bodine]

I saw one part of this thread that mentioned synacetti, a synthetic subsitute for spermacetti wax, anoyone got an idea where I could get some?

[felix]

http://www.tlcspaproducts.com/products.htm ... felix

[Bodine]

Thanks Felix!

[9mmcast]

I just finished up a batch of lube with the following contents:

3 Tbs. each of mineral, castor and "Extra Light Olive" oils
1 ounce (weighed on a powder scale) of finely grated Ivory Soap
14 ounces beeswax
4 Tbs. anhydrous lanolin

The oils were heated together at 300F for about one hour and stirred occasionally. At 300F this blend of oil occasionally gave off a wisp of light smoke. One ounce of finely grated Ivory is about a palm full and I was surprised when all of it melted into a meringue like foam. I took the stuff off the burner and placed a 14 oz. chunk of beeswax in the pan and realized it was going to need more heat in order to melt so I placed the hot plate on low and went away for a few minutes. When I returned the beeswax was only partially melted so I turned up the heat a bit more. Long story short, the concoction didn't become homogenous and thin enough to pour until above 225F which is where I added the 4 Tbs. of lanolin. After which I kept stirring as the temp climbed to 250F which is where I poured it through a piece of cheese cloth into a mayonnaise jar. It appeared there were a few lumps of undissolved Ivory.

After cooling, the lube has about the consistency of silly putty and is nearly as sticky as Javelina with a thick, slick feel to its residue. I just took a sample out of the refrigerator and although it's a bit firmer, after rolling it in my fingers I now have it all over my keyboard. I think it was a success... especially if this stuff's melting point is over 200F! Excuse me while I clean up my keyboard.

MJ

P.S. OK... I got most of it off my keys now, and placed a sample in the oven set half way between 150F and 200F. I'm going to leave it there for about an hour and see what happens.

A question:

You say that the lubricant has the consistency of silly putty but is sticky. Silly Putty is not sticky - it has a very stretchy - non-sticky characteristic.

Does this recipe produce a lubricant that has a texture like Silly Putty and is not sticky? I have tried making a batch and the lubricant is extremely sticky and too soft for my purpose.

I heated the Castor Oil/Mineral Oil to a smoking state (approximately 15 minutes). then added the Ivory Soap shavings. A lot of foaming occurred and I kept stirring until most of had dissappated. I had a double boiler fired up that had the molten bees wax in it. I added the Castor Oil/Mineral Oil mix to the bees wax and noticed that the foam was still at the surface of the wax. I then poured the mass into a mould. The result was a soft, mushy, grainular mass - not what I was expecting.

Should the bees wax be added to the Castor Oil/Mineral Oil mix (at the high temperature) over direct heat or was I on track by adding the two together in the double boiler?

Can someone help me out here because I think I am missing some important steps.

Thanks.

[felix]

Actually, I add the oil to the melted beeswax without using a double boiler at any time during the process. Yes, it appears you need to add more beeswax to the same mix you already have because the oil/soap mix was too thin. Not your fault in the least. I have found that every bar of soap I have ever used was from a different lot. No telling how much water is within a bar. ... felix

[9mmcast]

Actually, I add the oil to the melted beeswax without using a double boiler at any time during the process. Yes, it appears you need to add more beeswax to the same mix you already have because the oil/soap mix was too thin. Not your fault in the least. I have found that every bar of soap I have ever used was from a different lot. No telling how much water is within a bar. ... felix

Thank you Felix for the comeback. But, now another question: Is the temperature of the melted bees wax important during the mixing process? Or does the Mineral Oil/Castor Oil/Ivory mix combine with the melted bees wax over a double boiler?

Thanks.

This is a very interesting thread! And your information is so helpful!

[felix]

No need for double boiler when the pot is no more than 20 percent full and the sides perfectly, dishwasher, clean. Keep the heat on low at all times unless stirring rapidly, and once melted take the pot off of the burner and continue stirring. If you are going to add lanolin, do so last and when the total mess is just above its freezing point. ... felix

[twoworms]

Using the Felix Lube - the Short Version I made my first mix of Felix lube today.

Can you get to much carnuba wax in it, my mix is pink... Yeah pink, not that I intended it to come out that way. Other than that it turned out well I think.

Tim

[Drifter]

In the first post the Felix Lube formula calls for 2 Tbs. of Mineral (Baby) Oil and 1 Tbs. of Castor Oil. It says to heat the Mineral Oil until it starts to smoke and then add the Castor Oil and cook with continuous stirring for 30 minutes. My question is, if you're using twice as much Mineral Oil as Castor Oil can you go ahead and cook say 8 oz. of Mineral Oil and 4 oz. of Castor Oil for the 30 minutes and then store it for future use? This would save a lot of time in fixing future batches of lube because all you would have to do is heat up 3 Tbs. of the precooked mix and then add the other ingredients.

:drinks: Drifter

[BluesBear]

Drifter, refer back to post #41 by Felix;
A good technique is to mix castor oil and a petro oil at 50/50. Cook that, and store that in a bottle for perpetual mixing use. Now you don't have to cook the lube except just enough to mix all the ingredients for a particular batch of lube.It would seem logical that the same advice would apply to the 2:1 mix.

You only have to cook and stir it so long in order to polymerize the castor oil so it won't separate, later on, from the petrolium based products.
Also from post #41;
If you are not adding castor oil, then you don't have to cook the castor oil with the petro oil(s). Cooking is for poly-ing the castor oil only, and ONLY when a petro oil is present, OR will be in the future when fine tuning the mix for an app. Keep in mind that paraffin, baby oil, ATF comes from petro oil.

[twotoescharlie]

If you can find it," Ivory snow" is the same thing as ivory soap except it is in a powder form.
It should be in the washing detergent section at your local grocery emporium. I have a box that I have had for years. makes good Napalm.

TTC

[Drifter]

BluesBear,
Thanks for the reply.

I read post #41 and I didn't understand the 50/50 mix when the formula in post #1 calls for a 2 to 1 mix and the way I understand the other part of post #41 that you quoted was that the cooking made the Castor Oil blend with the other (petro) oil. On the second part I think you understand it the same way I do.

I plan on using the Castor Oil so I would have to cook it. It just seemed to me that it would be easier to cook a large batch of the two ingredients, use what you need for the size batch of lube you are making, and then save the rest for future use.

Might not work but it's just a thought.

Drifter

[felix]

Yes, pre-cooking castor oil with a petro product is a good idea. Just like annealing, it is the amount of time with heat applied makes everything work. Hotter the heat, the less time is required. Just where that demarcation is ... is completely unknown to describe, except through experience. Try to never let any kind of wax or oil smoke at all because good stuff is evaporating. Just below that smoke point is fine, and is considered the max temp to ever be applied to that mix ever again. Also, just like annealing, you can cool the mix, and then reheat many times. Each time adds more to the effect of what you are trying to do. So,,,, this means that if a batch of lube has been made with castor oil, and that lube begins to leak when placed on paper in the sun, sooner or later, upon another day later, it won't. You can hurry up the process by using the stove again. When there is no leak, there is full polymerization for the lube's purpose. Make sure you know the difference between leaking and melting when doing the "test". ... felix

[Drifter]

Thanks felix, I was hoping you would chime in on my question. After I read your post I went ahead and cooked 12 ozs. of Baby Oil and 6 ozs. of Castor Oil (smells pretty good). I washed out the Baby Oil bottle (which had a nice little squeeze spout for squeezing it out in the measuring spoons) and after the mix cools I plan on putting the mix back in the bottle and using it as I need it. I had to order the Lanolin so it will be a few days before I can finish the lube.

Thanks again,
:drinks: Drifter

[felix]

Drifter, lanolin must be kept cool, say 125 degrees or less. This rule does apply after the lube is several days old and had its time to match-merge all of the ingredients. The other stuff in the lube will protect the lanolin from that time on to the higher temperatures used to remelt and modify. ... felix

[Drifter]

felix,
Thanks for the insight about when to add the lanolin. It's amazing what you miss when you read something sometimes. I've read this thread at least four or five times and it says in the very first post to reduce or remove from the heat after the beeswax has melted before adding the lanolin and I totally missed it. I would probably have added it while the lube was too hot.
Thanks again,
Drifter

[BluesBear]

Felix, is there a missing "not" in the second sentence of your previous post?
If not, then I am confused?

[Drifter]

Felix, after cooking the 18 ozs. of Baby Oil and Castor Oil for a half hour I turned the heat off and left it in the pan overnight. This morning I stirred it up and poured it in a clear bottle, and after a couple of hours it had separated into two layers. Does this mean I need to cook it longer? You can shake it up and it seems to blend but after a while it will start to separate again.
Thanks,
Drifter

[felix]

Yes, more cooking, and while you are at it, add some grated (very fine) ivory soap, say a tablespoon per 8 ounces. ... felix

[Scrounger]

Yes, more cooking, and while you are at it, add some grated (very fine) ivory soap, say a tablespoon per 8 ounces. ... felix

And sprinkle with parsley.

[Quality NUt]

Here lately, I have been experimenting with lubes and making small batches (2-4 oz). The best thing I've found for keeping measurements precise is a large (read 2+ oz) vetinarian (sp) syringe. It has helped me ALOT. (Wish I had thunk of `dis years ago)

[bruce drake]

Spammer

[PineTreeGreen]

After cooking a batch of Felix Lube and adding the Ivory ,I poured the mixture in to a plastic container. After 2 days it had layered. Does it need more cooking or more Ivory? :-?
THNX Don

[felix]

Yes, on both counts. Raise temp up to smoking, and then add Ivory (same amount as last time) and stir until fully mixed. Then continue lower temp, say at 200 degrees, for an hour, stirring every 15 minutes. Always drop the temp if smoking. ... felix

[utk]

We don't have the soap brand Ivory here in Sweden, so I bought pure sodium stearate (cost me a lot) and made an experiment with only the oils. After one hour of cooking I had a paste-like light brown substance.
No good, after a couple of weeks a clear liquid had separated out of the paste.

So...... I'm a bit sceptical about this castor/mineral mix in a lube.

Now I'm looking for PAO oils instead, to replace castor and mineral. And do without sodium stearate/Ivory soap.

[Sprue]

I made the lube as per the given formula about a month ago. I did add green crayon to make it look, well, like RCBS lol. Makes it a little more pleasant to look at, especially on the bullet.

Oh yeah, I also added the J Paste wax. That helped with the smell too, not to mention shiney bores.

Now, when I fire my 38 spl rounds the odor reminds me of the smell you get when you shoot 22 LR, and I like that.

Anyway, I love this stuff cause I don't need a heater. Leading is now a thing of the past. I think the hardness is right on target. Any harder and I think a heater would be in the works.

Tks Felix!

[felix]

Maybe we can help the Swedes with some mods. Their components are not the same as ours, probably for different reasons other than those which are obvious over here (like EPA). So, please substitute freely and report back. The objective is a fully controllable lube composition: hard/soft; wet/dry; rough guns/ BR guns, etc. ... felix

[PineTreeGreen]

After cooking a batch of Felix Lube and adding the Ivory ,I poured the mixture in to a plastic container. After 2 days it had layered. Does it need more cooking or more Ivory? :-?
THNX Don

My local Wally World sells mineral oil in a 16 oz. bottle and caster oil in an 8 oz.bottle. After cooking that for about 40 min.,I added about 1/3 of a cake of Ivory. On the second heating,I added about 3/4 of a cake and it has not layered in 4 days. It seems to be slicker than owl snot. :-D

[jack19512]

I checked two brands of Baby Oil in the Supermarket, they both contain "Liquid Paraffin".
Do your baby oil bottles say the same thing as here in Sweden?











I was curious so I looked on my Baby Oil bottle and all it says under ingredients is mineral oil and fragrance. This is Johnson's brand.

[utk]

I think Liquidum Paraffinum is classified as a mineral oil. I found that it seemed to have a higher smoke point than ATF so I tried to "pre-cook" this liquid paraffin and castor oil. I also used pure sodium stearate since we don't have Ivory soap here in Sweden.
But this experiment failed, it separated. Haven't used it to make any lube, kind of sceptical about the whole design of the lube. There must be something wrong as many seem to have problems with separation. While others have no problems at all.
I want a stable and repeatable recipe. But since I don't need lube for anything but revolver, most any lube recipe will probably do fine...

[94Doug]

I am going to attempt to make some FL, and have purchased mineral oil and caster oil, (at different times as not to look to the clerk like I have internal problems) and have some Ivory of course. My question is then the Lanolin I see varies, so am I looking for the pure stuff that looks to be somewhat solid?

Doug

[practical_man]

94Doug,
I used the very solid lanolin. Worked out fine when I made mine. The only problem I have had is related to pan lubing. For some reason (probably related to the ivory soap) the lube gets stiffer every time i heat it to pan lube.

I'll keep tinkering to figure it out.

I like felix lube.


I am going to attempt to make some FL, and have purchased mineral oil and caster oil, (at different times as not to look to the clerk like I have internal problems) and have some Ivory of course. My question is then the Lanolin I see varies, so am I looking for the pure stuff that looks to be somewhat solid?

Doug

[94Doug]

Thanks!!

Doug

[hedgehorn]

excuse me if this has been asked before. Where do you get your Beeswax?

[No_1]

A couple members here sell beeswax. Blammer is the one that comes to mind first. Can't remember the other guy at the moments. I am sure he will chime it.

Robert


excuse me if this has been asked before. Where do you get your Beeswax?

[IcerUSA]

Blammer and RandyRat are the 2 that come to mind , PM eather one and I'm sure you will get an answer .

Keith

[No_1]

That's him! RandyRat. Give either a jingle (Christmas spirit eh?) and they will hook you up.

Robert

[keebo52]

Can liquid lanolin be used to make Felix lube?

[felix]

Depends on what the liquid is. If oil based, yes. ... felix

[keebo52]

The label reads lanolin oil 100% pure lanolin.

[felix]

Probably water, then. Lanolin is chemically a wax, and therefore must have some kind of "solvent" to be liquid. If they stripped some of the "wax"-making radical out for some amount getting an "oil", and then mixed that with the "wax" remaining, then, just maybe, they can call the whole-shootin'-match 100 percent lanolin. Anyway, water is always contained in the driest if lanolin anyway, so it really wouldn't make it too terrible to try and use what you have into a boolit lube. If it does not work as expected, you can use the stuff for black powder shooting. There, water stuff is much more tolerated, in fact desired. ... felix

[keebo52]

Found this info on lanolin oil. Looks like it should work???

Liquid Lanolin Oil is produced from lanolin that is subjected to low temperature fractional crystallization to isolate the liquid esters of regular anhydrous lanolin. Lanolin oil is much easier to work with than anhydrous lanolin due its lower viscosity. It can be used in formulations where lanolin is called for but it provides a lighter texture with less drag.

[felix]

Looks fine, and perhaps it would be better for higher concentrations than normal. Lanolin is used to increase viscosity in the lube, and this version of lanolin should make the viscosity more appropriate for the application. Lanolin also has the ability to lower the melt temperature of the lube when needed. ... felix

[oldtoolsniper]

I have been reading this as it has progressed since I too am going to soon begin brewing my own. I make all of my own trapping lures and baits. I have been at it for years. I use food processors from the thrift stores for grinding meat to calcium chloride. I shred my wax for waxed dirt the same way. If I need to pulverize items to make them incorporate easier I use one of those little push button coffee grinders. Blenders work too but I tend to get them smoking rather quickly. Lanolin is also used in many of the trapping lures I make as a base. I use a lot of lard and Crisco as well; my problem is a need for it to be soft when it’s below freezing. The opposite of the problem faced here.

[Edubya]

I know that this is an older thread, just felt that it was important enough to mention so that others wouldn't repeat my carelessness.

I ordered some Lar's bullet lube about a week ago because I wanted to try out some other than homemade lube on my bullets. I was notified about 3 days ago that my shipment has not been sent yet. Well, I've got some bullets that want to be shot. I can't abide their wishes without the lube, so I decided to use the recipe that all of the bullet (boolit) casting forums have been raving about, the "World Famous FELIX Lube". It takes about 45 min of cooking, mixing and stirring to make it.
I need it, so I dedicated the time to make it. I got a pretty nice looking batch of it made up and it was about 30 or 45 mins until I could put it to use, so it sat there during this time and the top solidified. Not a problem, we can reheat it in the microwave.
You and I both know that you never seal a container of any content and put it in the micro. Not thinking (one of my many refined traits), I saw that solidified microwavable bowl sitting there and I wanted it liquefied. Popped it in the micro and punched a couple of minutes into the controller and proceeded with other essential things-to-do.
I don't know if I heard the pop or just by happen chance looked over and saw the glass door covered, on the inside, with a coating of wax! The surface wax had cooled off and formed a perfect seal over hot liquid lube and it took less than 45 seconds to explode!
I spent the next hour trying to clean up my mess...
Didn't get those bullets lubed and it will probably not get done before I get the mess cleaned up.

EW

[utk]

I have been reading this as it has progressed since I too am going to soon begin brewing my own. I make all of my own trapping lures and baits. I have been at it for years. I use food processors from the thrift stores for grinding meat to calcium chloride. I shred my wax for waxed dirt the same way. If I need to pulverize items to make them incorporate easier I use one of those little push button coffee grinders. Blenders work too but I tend to get them smoking rather quickly. Lanolin is also used in many of the trapping lures I make as a base. I use a lot of lard and Crisco as well; my problem is a need for it to be soft when it’s below freezing. The opposite of the problem faced here.

For cutting up beeswax into smaller quantities I used to use a grater. Hard work, slow and messy with lots of beeswax on my hands.
Now I put the block of beeswax in the micro on a low setting. Only to slightly heat the wax, not high enough to melt. It then becomes much softer and I can cut it with a kitchen knife into slices. These slices are more managable, they can be cut more easily when cold than the whole big block.

[DEVERS454]

I just finished casting some Lee C358-158SWC bullets and got the gas checks on them in short order. But, I wanted to try felix lube again as it worked so well with my 300gr 45LC rounds.

Well, I found the box of supplies from before. Followed the original recipe to the letter. I found it easier to just take a mallet and crush a block of bees wax I had and then place 7oz of it into the pot than try and measure physical dimensions. I threw about 2 purple crayons worth in it as well for color and a full tablespoon of carnuba wax.

It made JUST enough to fill an 8x8 inch pan with 52 bullets (4x6 + 4x7 = 42) and then basically "pan lubed" them. This is where a "kake kutter" is a bit nicer, as you don't have to worry about losing lube out of the groves.

Anyhow, I have my "cake template" for 357 bullets all set to go. Anything hard-cast with gas checks deserves felix lube.

:castmine:

[Hubertus]

Hello,
I am new to this forum as a registered member, but I have been reading for a while.
Thank you very much for all the good information that helped me in different ways.
After all the good reviews and raving about the FWFL I decided to try it myself.
I got a used rifle in .45-70 as a present that wants to be shot and I have ordered 340 and 500 grainers (casting my own is unfortunately not an option right now).
Felix if you don't mind I would like to ask what you think of my alterations to your original recipe. If I understood all the comments correctly it should work.
I would like to replace the castor oil by pure jojoba and swap out the soap against cetyl alcohol. What do you think?
Hubertus

[felix]

Go for it, Hubertus! Your application is not that demanding. Castor oil is for speed applications. Jojoba would act like an expensive viscosity decreaser more than anything, and that should be varied back and forth until you get the best accuracy for your load. Cetyl alcohol is an excellent emulsifier/surfactant and should work as well as a soap, and perhaps mo'betta' all around. Report your proportions when you get the perfect combo after testing, please. ... felix

[Hubertus]

I will report as soon as I have some results on paper.
Unfortunately time is scarce and I had to shift the lube production to tomorrow night. After that I will see how the load development goes with the new rifle, cartrigde and first ever cast boolit loads I will be shooting. Quite a number of "new" factors in the equation but we'll see how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement.

[peter nap]

Felix...I have read the entire thread. I may need therapy now.:bigsmyl2:

Unfortunately, I am a tinkerer!
Would it hurt your lube to substitute Lithium Grease for mineral oil ???????\

[ph4570]

How about adding just a tad of fragrant oil -- maybe a tenth of an ounce of lavender oil? My wife shoots 38-55. It may be a hoot to give her a scent with each shot.

[felix]

Prolly won't come out as intended in terms of smell. If you add no more than a half teaspoon per pound of a concentrated trumpt-up fragrance or a natural oil, you should be safe and OK. ... felix

[ph4570]

Thanks Felix. If I try it I'll post Susan's olfactory sensation observation.

[sundog]

ph4570, that would be a hoot. it would smell good in the loobing staging, but i doubt if the desired affect would be realized when the trigger was pulled. Lyman Orange Magic is a good example.

[ph4570]

Well, smelling good in the loobing stage may be a hoot enough.

[geargnasher]

If you used an organic oil as a fragrance, would it have to be "polymerized" like the castor oil in order to stay in solution? If so, most esters lose their fragrance at high temperature, so it would smell good while cooking but probably not while shooting. Dunno, life is a grand experiment, maybe I'll try some. I wish I could cook the "ape's butt" smell out of Alox!

Gear

[felix]

Gear, if the native molucules were too small for the remainder of the lube, then, yes, something has to be done, like heating. Well, if that is the situation, the smellies are sure to disappear. Use low heat when adding the purfume. ... felix

[ph4570]

I had everything I needed but Ivory soap. I did have some sodium stearate. I could not get the stearate to melt. I cooked and cooked then gave up and dumped the oils.

Next day I bit the boolit and forked out $1.69 for a three bar pack of Ivory soap. That session went well. I did forget to do my experiment of adding a little lavender oil at the very end. However, I still have about a sticks worth in the cookpot so I will dope that with a few drops.

Here is a pic of the results of the 1st successful batch. I put lube filled PVC pipes in the freezer for 30 min to an hour. Then I took a wooden dowel, started it in the pipe, held onto the pipe and popped the dowel on a hard surface. The lube stick popped right out.

[ph4570]

1st batch update:

I re-melted what was left in the pot. Then added 10 drops of lavender oil. Poured 2 more sticks, cooled in the freezer and popped them out of the PVC pipes. They do indeed smell nicely of lavender. Susan will enjoy that whilst she lubes and sizes boolits for her 38-55 Winny.

[ph4570]

utk,

Thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll use a thermometer the next time. However, the second try with Ivory turned out well and I have 2.85 bars left from the $1.69 investment. Guess I'll save the stearate for Susan's soap making.

[geargnasher]

I had everything I needed but Ivory soap. I did have some sodium stearate. I could not get the stearate to melt. I cooked and cooked then gave up and dumped the oils.

Next day I bit the boolit and forked out $1.69 for a three bar pack of Ivory soap. That session went well. I did forget to do my experiment of adding a little lavender oil at the very end. However, I still have about a sticks worth in the cookpot so I will dope that with a few drops.

Here is a pic of the results of the 1st successful batch. I put lube filled PVC pipes in the freezer for 30 min to an hour. Then I took a wooden dowel, started it in the pipe, held onto the pipe and popped the dowel on a hard surface. The lube stick popped right out.

Man! $1.69? You got ripped off! I only paid 99 cents +tax for my three bars (and I think those were mostly water, judging by the foam).

Thanks for posting the pic, I have a better visualization of what I've read about making hollow stick lube moulds. I still melt and pour directly in the sizer, but maybe I'll try the sticks since I can make the the CORRECT size, not the size Lyman and others make them!

Let us know how the lavender oil smells when shot versus plain ol' Felix Lube.

Gear

Gear

[ph4570]

For the enquiring minds -----


Well, YES, the lavender scent remained. Each firing provide a faint whiff of lavender.

[geargnasher]

For the enquiring minds -----


Well, YES, the lavender scent remained. Each firing provide a faint whiff of lavender.

HA! I bet you got some funny looks at the range if anyone else was around :mrgreen:

Thanks for getting back with us on that. I figured the lavender wouldn't survive the odor of the Lube itself even if it did survive cooking, but this is why we try things. I think I'll try clove oil in the spirit of the Samurai...

Gear

[ph4570]

I put the lavender oil in after the cooking with the pan off the heat. Then the brew was poured into the molds.

[wolfman]

Found this info on lanolin oil. Looks like it should work???

Liquid Lanolin Oil is produced from lanolin that is subjected to low temperature fractional crystallization to isolate the liquid esters of regular anhydrous lanolin. Lanolin oil is much easier to work with than anhydrous lanolin due its lower viscosity. It can be used in formulations where lanolin is called for but it provides a lighter texture with less drag.


Wonder if the Lanolin Oil would be the way to go for a pan lube since it needs to be a little softer?

[geargnasher]

Wonder if the Lanolin Oil would be the way to go for a pan lube since it needs to be a little softer?

I've found that if you already made some and you want it softer, add a little precooked mineral/castor oil to your remelted lube to dilute the beeswax some, then add lanonlin back in half the amount as the mineral/castor to restore the proportion. I've used both the oil form (from the hippie store) and Lansinoh brand nipple cream (pure paste) and I couldn't tell much difference in consistency all else being the same. I never tried anhydrous due to local availability/expense because the others worked great for me.

One thing's for sure, the lube isn't really very sticky until you add lanolin, then you really have a bear of a time cleaning the stuff off your tools!

Gear

[joel0407]

Note to self and others. Dont spill this stuff in the kitchen. The more you clean the further it will spread. Especially if you modify the mix and it comes out blue.

[wolfman]

Just finished cooking up a batch of base, and want to make sure what I have is good before I add any bees wax or lanolin.

Heated 16 oz mineral oil to smoking, added 8 oz castor oil, then gradually mixed in 8 tablespoons of grated Ivory soap.

First question: Is this mess supposed to foam ,, and I mean "REALLY FOAM" up when you add the Ivory ??????

Finally got the Ivory added, and after cooking for what seemed forever, finally got the foam to go away. (Found that letting it cool, mixing the foam in while cold, then heating it back up did the trick), ended up with something that is the consistency of not quite set up jello. Sorta of clumpy like the jello that has set up, then been stirred to break it apart again.

Am I good to go? or do I need to dump it and start over??

[joel0407]

Just finished cooking up a batch of base, and want to make sure what I have is good before I add any bees wax or lanolin.

Heated 16 oz mineral oil to smoking, added 8 oz castor oil, then gradually mixed in 8 tablespoons of grated Ivory soap.

First question: Is this mess supposed to foam ,, and I mean "REALLY FOAM" up when you add the Ivory ??????

Finally got the Ivory added, and after cooking for what seemed forever, finally got the foam to go away. (Found that letting it cool, mixing the foam in while cold, then heating it back up did the trick), ended up with something that is the consistency of not quite set up jello. Sorta of clumpy like the jello that has set up, then been stirred to break it apart again.

Am I good to go? or do I need to dump it and start over??

Dont know about the soap but it doesn't when you use stearic acid. Apparently the soap contains water though.

[sundog]

oils should have been heated/stirred together at one time. what you have might still work.

[wolfman]

oils should have been heated/stirred together at one time. what you have might still work.

They were, but the mixture was all fomy when I got done adding the soap. After it cooled, I noticed there was a thin layer of cold foam on top of the oil mix, so I stirred it, heated it back up, and no more foam.

But no one has answered my main question:
What is the consistancy of the mix "supposed' to be? Mine is sort of like Jello that has set up, then been stirred. Not firm, but not runny either.

[sundog]

Sounds to me like a lot of soap, but that's okay. Foamy is okay. I did a batch like that a long time ago and what it will do is keep the oil in the loob and not let it leak. GO FOR IT, and report back!

[geargnasher]

Ok, Wolfman, you're on the right track. I'm no expert, but I've made quite a few successful batches and this is my experience. When you use fresh, new Ivory, it is loaded with water and foams like crazy. It should cook down and form a clear, viscous liquid that quickly turns gelatinous at somewhere around 180* and more or less coagulates at room temp. 8 tsp grated soap sounds about right for your 8 tsp castor and 16 tsp mineral. Any more and you'll get clear lumps that won't dissolve.

The key, which so often gets overlooked no matter how many times Felix reiterates, is to cook the castor/mineral oils at 300* for 30 minutes or cooler/longer BEFORE adding soap. The castor must be cooked until it polymerizes or it will sweat out of the finished lube. Trust me, it will. I usually cook the oils for 40 minutes, add soap, increase heat to 325* and cook for another 15-20 minutes stirring constantly just to make sure (the smoking point of the oils raises when the soap is added, and you need all the heat you can get to melt the soap completely).

Then add beeswax, stir, cool, add lanolin, pour into muffin tin to make lube ingots to be melted later in microwave and poured into lubrisizer.

Or however you do it.

Gear

[wolfman]

Ok, Wolfman, you're on the right track. I'm no expert, but I've made quite a few successful batches and this is my experience. When you use fresh, new Ivory, it is loaded with water and foams like crazy. It should cook down and form a clear, viscous liquid that quickly turns gelatinous at somewhere around 180* and more or less coagulates at room temp. 8 tsp grated soap sounds about right for your 8 tsp castor and 16 tsp mineral. Any more and you'll get clear lumps that won't dissolve.

The key, which so often gets overlooked no matter how many times Felix reiterates, is to cook the castor/mineral oils at 300* for 30 minutes or cooler/longer BEFORE adding soap. The castor must be cooked until it polymerizes or it will sweat out of the finished lube. Trust me, it will. I usually cook the oils for 40 minutes, add soap, increase heat to 325* and cook for another 15-20 minutes stirring constantly just to make sure (the smoking point of the oils raises when the soap is added, and you need all the heat you can get to melt the soap completely).

Then add beeswax, stir, cool, add lanolin, pour into muffin tin to make lube ingots to be melted later in microwave and poured into lubrisizer.

Or however you do it.

Gear


Thanks !! This info helps a lot. For new lube chemists like myself, it would help a lot, if the part I put in bold, was added to the text of the origional recipe on the first page. Sometimes us newbies need the "why" as much if not more than the "how"

[geargnasher]

Wolfman, it's really all there if you dig through two websites (this entire thread + the original development thread at castpics.net).

Here's some more helpful info I've found within the threads, and a couple of my own unqualified tips YMMV!!!:

1) A 3.5" x 3.5" x 1" chunk of beeswax weighs about 7-8 ounces depending on the wax. Just say 8 oz. is close enough for a basic batch.

2) Cook up a quantity of Castor/mineral oil and store it as a single ingredient for future lube-making. Reason for this is that you will lose up to 25% of the oil volume by the time you get it cooked sufficiently and this affects the final composition. Precook the oils, then measure the amount called for in the original recipe (3tbs. total for std. batch), melt in the soap...... etc. I've made the lube several times with only 2-1/4 tbs. total cooked oils (3tbs. being what I started with) and it is usually too hard.

3) If your soap leaves clear lumps that won't dissolve no matter what, then the mixure is fully saturated and you can strain the hot mixture though a paper/mesh disposable paint strainer to get the lumps out before adding wax.

4) The oil/soap/wax mixture begins to "freeze" at about 150*, this is the point you add the lanolin and stir in thoroughly or the lanolin will smoke. Once in the mixture, the lanolin is somewhat protected from heat by the other ingredients, so you don't have to worry about overheating it when remelting in the future. (heat just enough to melt, you don't need to "recook" it again).

5) The most important hidden tidbit I found was in the castpics.net text. It is the information required if your lube isn't quite right and you need to know what to do to fix it:

"Beeswax is the base, castor oil is the real lube, lanolin makes the lube sticky, stearate glues the mess together so it does not separate into components upon cooling, carnauba wax adds the shine, and paraffin is the ultimate hardener, to be used as a last resort."

Understanding what each ingredient does is crucial for the undertaking to be effective, as we each must tweak this lube for a particular gun/lube groove type/climate/pan or lubrisizer application/velocity for it to really be worthwhile.

6) If you eliminate the castor oil, you don't have to cook the mix, just melt components together. Same thing if you don't add ANY petroleum components, you don't have to cook it. You can make the lube with jojoba oil or substitute peanut or olive oil for the mineral oil. I think the original recipe is best for high-velocity or rifle applications, but the peanut oil version works great for pistol stuff up to about 1,000fps and smells good, too. (Doesn't smell like peanuts, but adds a "woody" flavour to the smoke). I made one batch with jojoba, couldn't tell it was worth the cost.

7) There IS a learning curve to making this stuff, but once you actually start cooking it up, all the things we talked about begin to make sense, and you'll develop your own techniques. Like Felix said, you almost always get something that's useable, even if it's not the exact recipe. For most applications, it really isn't that critical.

8) Anhydrous lanolin is good, but lanolin "Oil" works, as does Mother's brand or Lansinoh or CVS Pharmacy or Wal-Mart brand"nipple cream". Just use some form of it to help the lube stick to the grooves.

9) Anything water-based or containing water is bad for the lube, powder, and gunbarrels.

10) A great, big thank you! is in order to the Casboolits and Castpics staff, Felix and all the others who contributed to this fascinating topic, if it hadn't been for them I probably would have been choking on Alox smoke for the rest of my life!

Gear

[wolfman]

Thanks for putting a lot of the tips in a single post. While I was getting everything together to make the lube, I have been cutting all the tips I can find and pasting them into a word doc. Where you mention just cooking the oils together, I am making my "starter" using the tips mentioned back in post 153 on page 8 where also adding the soap to the starter is mentioned. Cooked up a second batch today and this time let the oil cook for almost an hour before adding the soap. Still a lot of foam because of the water in the soap, but the finished product looks much better. Looks like my word doc is going to get a couple pages longer .

Brian

[geargnasher]

I did the same thing, but just started a page of notes, writing pertinent tips down as I went. I had to reread a lot of this stuff twice or three times, as quite a lot of good info slipped by me the first time. I'm thinking, now that I've made and tested over ten batches in this summer, that I still don't know beans about the concoction, but I do want to start a thread called "Felix lube for dummies" which would give more precise instructions, physical descriptions with pictures of what is should look like, and what it shouldn't look like at various points. Also would be notes on varations of ingredients (not all wax, castor, Ivory, lanolin are created equal!!!), cold weather formulas, high-velocity formulas, etc. and other sucessful makers can add their 2 cents, kinda like here, but starting with a more clarified illustrated recipe to begin with.

But that would take all he fun out of it for everyone, now wouldn't it?

Like they say, if it was easy everyone would do it.

Gear

[Alex]

Now, I'm new to this forum and REALLY don't want to offend anyone. But, at the ripe old age of 56 I am finally self-confident enough to disclose that I CAN BE rather lazy sometimes. I've been casting boolits for over 30 years now and have always used commercial boolit lubes (goes back to the lazy thing). However, being of Scottish descent, every time I drop a boolit from a mould or run one thru a sizing die, my mind is unconsciously calculating the cost down to the last erg of energy I expend. My time being the most expensive constituent of the process. Consequently, poring thru 100's of pages of boolit lube recipes does not qualify as time well spent. Which brings me to the point of my current rant. Can someone direct me to a homemade boolit lube that works well on boolits of appropriate hardness from 35 to 45 caliber not exceeding 1250 FPS using 2400, Unique, Bullseye, Hi-Skor 700X, HP-38, TiteGroup, and W231. Something that does not require a PHD in Nuclear Psychology with a minor in Chinese geometry? Oh yeah, and it can't cost as much as the proposed new healthcare system. I will be eternally grateful and sing your praises unto my dying breath.

Alex


Life is tough. Life is tougher if you're stupid. ~ John Wayne

[robertbank]

Go to the first post in this thread and make yourself some Felix lube. Works for me from 9MM to .30-06. It is all I use for 9MM, .40cal and .45acp. Did I mention .45LC as well.

Take Care

Bob

[Lloyd Smale]

ive made many differnt lubes but if quality and price and lazyness are all factored in its hard to beat just buying lube from white lable lube company. You cant make it much cheaper if any.
Now, I'm new to this forum and REALLY don't want to offend anyone. But, at the ripe old age of 56 I am finally self-confident enough to disclose that I CAN BE rather lazy sometimes. I've been casting boolits for over 30 years now and have always used commercial boolit lubes (goes back to the lazy thing). However, being of Scottish descent, every time I drop a boolit from a mould or run one thru a sizing die, my mind is unconsciously calculating the cost down to the last erg of energy I expend. My time being the most expensive constituent of the process. Consequently, poring thru 100's of pages of boolit lube recipes does not qualify as time well spent. Which brings me to the point of my current rant. Can someone direct me to a homemade boolit lube that works well on boolits of appropriate hardness from 35 to 45 caliber not exceeding 1250 FPS using 2400, Unique, Bullseye, Hi-Skor 700X, HP-38, TiteGroup, and W231. Something that does not require a PHD in Nuclear Psychology with a minor in Chinese geometry? Oh yeah, and it can't cost as much as the proposed new healthcare system. I will be eternally grateful and sing your praises unto my dying breath.

Alex


Life is tough. Life is tougher if you're stupid. ~ John Wayne

[Alex]

Go to the first post in this thread and make yourself some Felix lube. Works for me from 9MM to .30-06. It is all I use for 9MM, .40cal and .45acp. Did I mention .45LC as well.

Take Care

Bob

Robert,
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I read the first post in this thread. Right up to the part where I stand there for 30 minutes stirring a pot of simmering lube. Please don't think me crass or shallow, but for that to be reasonable to me would require that I was lubing about 10,000 boolits. Just gathering the materials would require sufficient effort that I wouldn't consider standing there for 30 minutes. It's a 20-minute drive to the nearest town of any measurable size for me to even look for all the ingredients.

Thanks again,
Alex

[robertbank]

Well the next time you go to that town you should be good to go. Either that or just order off the internet a commercial load and subtract the savings of your time from the cost of the commercial lube.

Take Care

Bob

[Alex]

ive made many differnt lubes but if quality and price and lazyness are all factored in its hard to beat just buying lube from white lable lube company. You cant make it much cheaper if any.

Lloyd,
Thanks so much for the tip on WLL. I read all the testimonials, went to Lars website, and yeah, I think this is definitely the way to go for me. Less than half the price of other commercial lubes, plus, I don't have to stir it for 30 minutes. Anything that cuts my reloading time is time I can spend sending boolits downrange. That's a VERY GOOD THING. As I stated in my first post, my time is the most precious part of any project I choose to involve myself in. So, thanks again. As they say in Scotland "Slainte" (pronounced "sloncha", meaning "good health" or "to your health")

Alex

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. ~ One of many Marine Corp mottos

[ghh3rd]

Made my first batch of Felix Lube, and think it came out Ok. Cooked up a 6oz batch of Mineral/Castor oil so I'll have more pre-made for next time.

Grated half a bar of Ivory soap and put it in a air tight container. Measured out a rounded tablespoon of it and weighed it -- 73gr.

The soap foamed and melted completely. I let it heat for a few more minutes to ensure that any water in the soap evaporated.

Used 1 tbl spoon Lansinoh "nipple cream" for my Lanolin.

After pouring final product into a Glad disposable container and letting it sit, no layers. I removed the lid after about 5 minutes, and there was no condensation, so I'm sure there is no trace of water in the lube.

The lube is pliable but firm, and looks creamy.

I'll give it a try on my next batch of boolits.

Randy


I think

[joel0407]

Help...

My castor and mineral oil keeps seperating.

Should I cook longer or add more stearate?

[felix]

Cook longer, at a temp that does not smoke, but hot enough to drive off steam. Some stearates have too much glycerin and that must be broken down which takes time without destroying the "oils". On the other hand, glycerin content is not damaging to muzzle loading black powder applications. ... felix

[Marlin Hunter]

Cook longer, at a temp that does not smoke, but hot enough to drive off steam. Some stearates have too much glycerin and that must be broken down which takes time without destroying the "oils". On the other hand, glycerin content is not damaging to muzzle loading black powder applications. ... felix


Would grating the soap and drying it in an oven before putting it in the mix help out with water removal?

[geargnasher]

Would grating the soap and drying it in an oven before putting it in the mix help out with water removal?

Yes, but so will leaving it on top of the refrigerator for a week.

The issue I have with getting the Ivory to dissolve is really an issue of the glycols it contains. Glycerine is a by-product of the soap itself and is often refined out (as it must be in Biodiesel fuel derived from animal fat or plant oils). Ivory seems to contain quite a bit, and it makes sense since glycerine is an effective emollient and adds to its qualities as a bath soap. Glycerine has some qualities that would be desirable in a boolit lube, but being extremely hygroscopic really throws a wrench into making it blend with oils and tends to make it undesirable for smokeless powder applications because of corrosion issues.

Sooooo, if you can't get your Ivory to melt completely, strain out the clear lumps because it is glycerine, you don't want it in you lube, and it has a higher boiling point than the poof point of your beeswax. Remember it is the stearate you want from the soap, the water (that is dissolved in glycerine) boils off in a few seconds, and the glycerine that is left behind can be strained. The Stearate dissolves in to the mix within a few minutes.

Gear

[Marlin Hunter]

I made my first batch of Felix lube. I started by pre-mixing the Castor oil, oil, and soap in one container and melting the Bees wax in another. The two oils mixed easily, but the soap took a long time to melt and thoroughly mix with the oils. I think it was about 2 hours cook time. I grated the soap about a month ago and put it in a pan on top of my water heater to dry out. I think it helped, because I got very little foam. The smaller pieces and fine powder mixed quickly but the longer strands is what took so long to mix. After soap was finally mixed with the oils, I poured it into the melted bees wax. I also added some carnauba wax to shine the bore. I burned something on the inside bottom of the wax container. I think it might be the bees wax but I'm not sure. I didn't burn the bottom of the oil and soap container. I noticed that the entire mix started to jell at about 200*F, and solidified about 145*F. I think this batch should work for either hot or cold weather. It was sticky to touch, but it didn't make my hands sticky. I don't think it will work for pan lubing: It's too soft. Next time I will have to make the soap chips smaller. I added a green crayon, but the color is still a light carmel brown. I can't see any green color whatsoever.

Thanks for the recipe Felix [smilie=s:

[keebo52]

Just found some stearic acid at a local craft store. Can I use it in place of the ivory soap? If so, how much per batch?

[felix]

Yes, same amount. Can make the lube a little better for a winter lube in that the melting point will not be raised as with sodium stearate. ... felix

[Mk42gunner]

When I made my first batch of FWFL, I found a bar of Ivory soap that I know I had for at least three years. Instead of trying to grate it like cheese; I scraped it with a knife blade, and got pwoder that melted into the oil mixture easily.

My version has worked on everything from .32 Long to .45 LC in handguns and with .308 amd .30-06 in rifles.


Robert

[GabbyM]

Baby oil or intestinal lubricant laxative ?

Does it make any difference which type of mineral oil you use. The pure mineral oil lacks the perfume in baby oil. Still stinks adequately when cooking but nothing like that baby oil.

2nd question: How important is straining the mixed lube to remove glycerin lumps?

[keebo52]

Yes, same amount. Can make the lube a little better for a winter lube in that the melting point will not be raised as with sodium stearate. ... felix

Thanks for the quick answer, Mr. Felix. I'll give it a try.

[geargnasher]

Baby oil or intestinal lubricant laxative ?

Does it make any difference which type of mineral oil you use. The pure mineral oil lacks the perfume in baby oil. Still stinks adequately when cooking but nothing like that baby oil.

2nd question: How important is straining the mixed lube to remove glycerin lumps?

My two cents, FWIW

1st answer, IME not much, I've used Dexron III, 2-cycle engine premix, etc. I think the unscented laxative stuff should be just fine.

2nd answer, (since I'm the OCD nut that mentioned straining) it depends upon how obsessive you are. The lumps seem to settle to the bottom when cooling, and there might be a difference in lube consistency there. As far as performance I doubt you'd know the difference shooting it. :mrgreen:

Gear

[32-44]

Hi
I am new in this forum but I follow since a long time the lube recipes.
I have made some Felix lube with good results but remain the question what is the usefulness of the mineral oil ?
Is it to help castor oil to polymerize or contribute to lubing?
Thanks for answers
32-44

[geargnasher]

Hi
I am new in this forum but I follow since a long time the lube recipes.
I have made some Felix lube with good results but remain the question what is the usefulness of the mineral oil ?
Is it to help castor oil to polymerize or contribute to lubing?
Thanks for answers
32-44

Mineral oil is a hydrocarbon donor to the castor as I understand it. The castor is the 'real' lube in the recipe.

Gear

[felix]

Actually, both. Castor oil is such a powerful lubricant that other naturals pale by comparison. It's downfall is that it does not like to stick around especially when any type of petro (most sources, anyway) is involved. Therefore, enlarging (polymerizing) the castor fraction is appropriate. Some lubes will employ a castor wax (enlarging the oil by hydrogen bombardment), but that creates a lube viscosity which approaches that of a weld. Talk about a no-no for boolit lube in any situation. We use lanolin for the viscosity increase because it is mild mannered in comparison. ... felix

[keebo52]

Just made my first batch using stearic acid from the craft store instead of ivory soap. It dissolved immediately into the oils rather than taking forever like the soap. Is this OK? Sure made the process a lot easier if this stuff works.

[ghh3rd]

I just posted a question about the best way to remelt Felix Lube -- should have posted it here instead. I want to either be able to pour into lube sizer, or am ready to experiment with making tubes of lube. I'm microwaving on low for very long time, stirring in chunks, but it's too much tedious work.

[32-44]

In the famous Felix lube, is the use of stearic acid in lieu of sodium stearate is ok.
the sodium stearate is a binder and emulsifier but the stearic acid is given as a thickener.
I have seen this use in several recipes but what is Felix thinking about this use.
Thanks

[wiljen]

Felix and I had several discussions before I started using stearic acid instead of Sodium strearate.

The main difference in the two is the melting point of your finished product is slightly lower with stearic acid than with the sodium stearate. The other difference is that is it near impossible to get 100% sodium stearate. The reason Felix used ivory soap at the outset is that it was roughly 70% stearate and getting a more purified form made it prohibitively expensive.

I add a tablespoon of carnauba wax to my mix which has the effect of raising the melting point so it comes out roughly the same as Felix made with Ivory soap and no Carnauba wax.

[32-44]

Thanks Wiljen

[cptkeybrd]

Well guys after exhausting reading and experimenting the best additive I found for the lube is a little coconut oil for the smell, and almost all concotions work good. I have resigned myself to the best and cheapest solution for ME and that is White Label lube. It is cheap, it is reliable, and it works. I use three flavors, carnuba red, Bac and 50/50. Its fun to experiment with lube but when you want to get down to it, these guys make a affordable great lube. I use it in 380, 38, 357, 40 and 45, 7.62x54r you cant go wrong for 2 bucks. It is fun experimenting tho, I think I have enuf for a couple years of shootin. I did try a 40%x 40% x10% of Lee alox, Johnsons PW, and mineral spirits. and had good results with it. Carry on mates.

[deerslayer]

Ok this thread was five years in the making and I just read almost all of it and I am crosseyed right now.

But I have to ask what is the long version of felix lube as this thread is the short version.

[utk]

Has anybody actually pre-cooked the mineral and castor oils? Did you manage to get them mixed / polymerized?

I have tried 3 different oils with castor oil but they all separate into two layers.

The oils:

1) Liquid Paraffin, aka Baby Oil
2) Castrol mineral ATF (Castrol TQ Dexron III)
3) A PAO-oil (whatever that is. It's a synthetic oil - that's all I know)


I've followed Wiljens directions - 300F for minimum 1 hour. (Actually the ATF cooked for 2 hrs and the liquid paraffin for three full hours. Because when I found one hour wasn't enough, I cooked some more).
The only difference between our setups is that Wiljen used a pressure cooker while I used a SS pot.

[geargnasher]

UTK, many folks have settled on cooking up larger batches of "base" oil and measuring it out to make smaller batches of lube. I've personally never had an issue if I cooked them for more than 45 minutes at 300 F, don't know of anyone else who has, either. Did you stir constantly? That part is important, the oils need to keep moving the whole time.

Gear

[Edubya]

Has anybody actually pre-cooked the mineral and castor oils? Did you manage to get them mixed / polymerized?

I have tried 3 different oils with castor oil but they all separate into two layers.

The oils:

1) Liquid Paraffin, aka Baby Oil
2) Castrol mineral ATF (Castrol TQ Dexron III)
3) A PAO-oil (whatever that is. It's a synthetic oil - that's all I know)


I've followed Wiljens directions - 300F for minimum 1 hour. (Actually the ATF cooked for 2 hrs and the liquid paraffin for three full hours. Because when I found one hour wasn't enough, I cooked some more).
The only difference between our setups is that Wiljen used a pressure cooker while I used a SS pot.

The way that I read the instructions was to cook the mineral oil until it smoked real good then add the Castor oils. Is this what you have done or did you mix the two oils and then heat?

EW

[GabbyM]

Has anybody actually pre-cooked the mineral and castor oils? Did you manage to get them mixed / polymerized?

I have tried 3 different oils with castor oil but they all separate into two layers.

The oils:

1) Liquid Paraffin, aka Baby Oil
2) Castrol mineral ATF (Castrol TQ Dexron III)
3) A PAO-oil (whatever that is. It's a synthetic oil - that's all I know)


I've followed Wiljens directions - 300F for minimum 1 hour. (Actually the ATF cooked for 2 hrs and the liquid paraffin for three full hours. Because when I found one hour wasn't enough, I cooked some more).
The only difference between our setups is that Wiljen used a pressure cooker while I used a SS pot.

We have some confusion.
Castrol is a brand name. Castor oil listed in recipe is Castor oil. Which comes from the castor bean not Castrol Inc. I get my castor oil from one of the candle supply vendors.

When you see recipes using ATF they aren't trying to polymerize that oil. All ATF is synthetic and very resistant to polymerization. I can't make heads or tales of half the lube recipes posted. Especially when it comes to peoples substitutions of one ingredient for the another.

[geargnasher]

Gabby, I read UTK's post differently, maybe I'm missing something. He said he tried three different mineral oils (one possibly synthetic) to cook with the castor, and was still getting separation.

Also, NOT all atf is synthetic, in fact most is not. Dexron III, by SFI/API definition contains no "synthetic" oil bases at all. Synthetic is a marketing word in reality since there is no real definition or standard for synthetic base oils, only physical test requirements for certain certifications. I'm still at a loss as to the separation issues, I've used Dexron III before and it worked fine but I couldn't stand the smell.

Gear

[utk]

Thank you all for replying. I will try to answer all questions :

geargnasher: Yes, I stirred constantly for the first hour. Also switched power on/off to maintain a somewhat constant temperature.
For the 2:nd and 3:rd hour I only stirred every 5 to 10 minutes or so. Also the temp was a little higher, say 330F since I didn’t switch power on/off like 1:st hour

Edubya: I used a thermometer all the time, aiming at 300F. First I heated the mineral oil to 300F, THEN I added the castor oil and brought them back to 300F.

GabbyM:
I used vegetable Castor oil and Castrol (brand name) TQ Dexron III ATF.
MSDS says: two base oils + an additive. CAS numbers are given.

Further comments: The PAO oil is a synthetic “long chained oil”. I asked an oil company if they sold any PAO oils. They didn’t but he sent me an unmarked sample, probably from their lab.
I have used Castor oil I bought from a home-cosmetics company or a bottle I bought from a model-engine shop (they use methanol+castor for fuel).

I have a bottle of Baby Oil from Johnson & Johnson. It contains Liquid Paraffin + Isopropyl Palmitate. But I never used it. Instead I bought a quart bottle of Liquid Paraffin (White Oil) from the paint shop. Figured Isopropyl Palmitate wouldn’t make any difference.

[geargnasher]

Try the J&J baby oil, I KNOW it works, plus it smells good.

Gear

[utk]

Try the J&J baby oil, I KNOW it works, plus it smells good.

Gear

I think I will. Still have it. (However, my bottle says "Perfume free").
Otherwise I can't think of which oil to try. Most oils have additives in them (motor oils). The liquid paraffin is the purest oil I know of. Sewing machine oil perhaps, unless that just is another expensive packaging of LP. (Same s%&#t - different packaging).

[GabbyM]

I tried baby oil once and could not stand the smell. I used laxative type heavy mineral oil which was much better. I just cook it over a low gas flame and stir continuously with a chop stick. It burns the bamboo chop stick black. With half sauce pan full I have to cook for an hour. I grate Ivory soap with a kitchen grater. When successfully polymerized it is thick enough at room temp to not poor from a container. Not as hard as jello but about like tapioca pudding. Mine has always darkened a bit but if it's perfect this may not be the case.

I've never tried to polymerize ATF. If anyone has performed that feat I'd like to hear about it. I know it can be done with catalyst but I'd think it would be very hard on a stove top. I've always thought when people used ATF in these recipes they used it right from the can.

[geargnasher]

Gabby, it isn't the petroleum oil that we're trying to polymerize, it's the castor oil.

Due to the gelling you mentioned, I don't add the soap (or stearic acid, which I use now) until I'm ready to make a batch of lube. The cooked oils stay stored in an airtight bottle by themselves until needed.

Gear

[GabbyM]

Oh, I never made the connection. Only the castor gets polymerized. :groner:

I just today used up the last of my cooked oil mix with castor , mineral and Ivory soap.
Have some new oils from vendors. With a bag of stearic acid also. Trying to wrap my head around the reason to not add stearic acid until making the lube. How do you now you've polymerized the castor oil if you don't get it to set up into a gel? Making it all gel up into a blob gave me a warm fuzzy feeling. I know I failed to achieve good polymerization on one batch and ended up with sticky gooey lube that didn't stay in the groves to well. That was with half hour cook time with maybe a pint or more in a sauce pan. I cook an hour now and make darn sure it's done. Running the range hood so not to smoke up the house. Probably run this next batch of oil on the side burner of gas grill outside since its summer.

My sticky lube looked and felt fine until it was run through the sizer. Pressure of lube pump would separate out oils from wax and it does not go back in. At least that's all I could figure out was happening.

[geargnasher]

Oh, I never made the connection. Only the castor gets polymerized. :groner:

I just today used up the last of my cooked oil mix with castor , mineral and Ivory soap.
Have some new oils from vendors. With a bag of stearic acid also. Trying to wrap my head around the reason to not add stearic acid until making the lube. How do you now you've polymerized the castor oil if you don't get it to set up into a gel? Polymerization does not equal "gel", the fully cooked oils will be about the consistency of corn oil. You won't know right away if you've cooked them enough if you add soap/sodium stearate/stearic acid, because the oils will be less likely to separate until the lube is finished and loaded away in your cartridges for a few weeks/months, then the duds will tell you what happened. Making it all gel up into a blob gave me a warm fuzzy feeling. That warm fuzzy feeling doesn't make up for poor chemistry. I know I failed to achieve good polymerization on one batch and ended up with sticky gooey lube that didn't stay in the groves to well. probably not due to under-polymerization, more likely not enough beeswax or soap.That was with half hour cook time with maybe a pint or more in a sauce pan. I cook an hour now and make darn sure it's done. Running the range hood so not to smoke up the house. If it smokes that much you're running it too hot. Try to use a candy thermometer, not SWMBO'S, get your own at Wal-Mart. Probably run this next batch of oil on the side burner of gas grill outside since its summer.

My sticky lube looked and felt fine until it was run through the sizer. Pressure of lube pump would separate out oils from wax and it does not go back in. OIL, singular. It's the castor that wants to evacuate from the lube in the presence of mineral oils/paraffin, etc., that's the whole reason we must cook the oils together to fatten up the castor fraction. If you just use castor and NO petroleum, it won't sweat. At least that's all I could figure out was happening.

It might serve you well to go back over the last couple of pages of this thread, all this has been covered in great detail, especially the chemistry of the lube. Good luck!

Gear

[utk]

Today I tried another oil with the castor. Same result - separation.
In all my cookings, I have only used the two oils. No soap, sodium stearate or stearic acid.

I have assumed that polymerized means that the oils have merged into one un-separable quantity of oil. Correct?

I find it odd that I have failed with four different oils while others report success.

If you use stearate etc, I can understand that the oils stay together. I've done some experiments with the oils + sodium stearate. Some slight separation after a long time but stearate definitely bind the oils together.

I've also made a few lube batches with different quantities of sodium stearate (not soap) and different mineral oils and they are all dry and nice in their plastic bags. No signs of separation or oil seepage/leakage even after a long time (years).

I placed a couple of small balls of lube from these batces on a piece of paper for a couple of days in the sun, temps approx 130F maximum. There was some bleeding into the paper. A "reference ball" of Calif. Saeco Green bled more and the lube ball was visibly "sweating" in the heat whereas the other lube balls looked dry. (Next time I will use the oven - more controllable).

Do I have good lubes or will they withstand heat even better if I manage the polymerization?
Then - what does it take to reach this illusive goal?

Now, If the oils don't "connect" - could there have been some change in the length of the "chains" or "molecules" of especially the castor after the long cooking time? So that the castor (with the extra help of stearate) now can be contained in the beeswax? This could explain why some report seepage after cooking too little time?

I have always cooked for at least half an hour, often more and the finished lube looked ok. Judging from the last days experiments I have never managed to poly the oils as described though...

[Faret]

I am having the same problems.


Today I tried another oil with the castor. Same result - separation.
In all my cookings, I have only used the two oils. No soap, sodium stearate or stearic acid.

I have assumed that polymerized means that the oils have merged into one un-separable quantity of oil. Correct?

I find it odd that I have failed with four different oils while others report success.

If you use stearate etc, I can understand that the oils stay together. I've done some experiments with the oils + sodium stearate. Some slight separation after a long time but stearate definitely bind the oils together.

I've also made a few lube batches with different quantities of sodium stearate (not soap) and different mineral oils and they are all dry and nice in their plastic bags. No signs of separation or oil seepage/leakage even after a long time (years).

I placed a couple of small balls of lube from these batces on a piece of paper for a couple of days in the sun, temps approx 130F maximum. There was some bleeding into the paper. A "reference ball" of Calif. Saeco Green bled more and the lube ball was visibly "sweating" in the heat whereas the other lube balls looked dry. (Next time I will use the oven - more controllable).

Do I have good lubes or will they withstand heat even better if I manage the polymerization?
Then - what does it take to reach this illusive goal?

Now, If the oils don't "connect" - could there have been some change in the length of the "chains" or "molecules" of especially the castor after the long cooking time? So that the castor (with the extra help of stearate) now can be contained in the beeswax? This could explain why some report seepage after cooking too little time?

I have always cooked for at least half an hour, often more and the finished lube looked ok. Judging from the last days experiments I have never managed to poly the oils as described though...

[geargnasher]

I don't know what you're doing differently than me, but I have never observed separation of the oils on cooling. I don't think it's necessary to get the oils to permanently homogenize, the polymerization takes place on a molecular level and you can't tell by looking if it has happened. Even fully polymerized oils may separate in some instances, I don't know.

The real test is to go ahead and make the lube, then put a block of it on a windowsill in the sun like Felix suggests and see if it starts to sweat little beads of oil out after a couple of hours. If it stays dry on the surface, you have cooked it enough.

Gear

[utk]

I don't know what you're doing differently than me, but I have never observed separation of the oils on cooling. I don't think it's necessary to get the oils to permanently homogenize, the polymerization takes place on a molecular level and you can't tell by looking if it has happened. Even fully polymerized oils may separate in some instances, I don't know.

The real test is to go ahead and make the lube, then put a block of it on a windowsill in the sun like Felix suggests and see if it starts to sweat little beads of oil out after a couple of hours. If it stays dry on the surface, you have cooked it enough.

Gear

Gear, that's exactly what I've done! I put a number of small lube balls on a piece of paper. Behind windows in a closed space where temps occasionally reached some 130F. And for several days.
The lubes were made from different oils (ATF and Liquid Paraffin / Baby Oil) and with different amounts of pure Sodium Stearate.

Around each ball was a small circle of "dampness", slightly larger dia. than the ball. All lube balls were dry in appearance and to the touch.

For the FWFL lubes: is this small seepage normal, is that what you also find?

For the last two days, I also placed a freshly made ball of Wiljen's variety with Stearic Acid + Carnauba instead of Sodium Stearate. It seemed to perform the same as the original lube version. More tests will follow.

I'm now in the process of preparing a new experiment and for this, cooking some new lubes. I was planning an oven experiment trying to keep a constant temp instead of relying on the sun. Also, I would like to see when they start melting.
But my oven doesn't seem able to maintain a constant temp, there seems to be a large hystersis in the thermostat.
So I might just set it for 200F and monitor all lube samples during heating up.

I will scan the flea markets for a small table oven where I can construct my own heat controller and also include a fan to even out temp differences.

Edit: I have removed all results for Calif. Saeco Green because it seems that I used too much STP in that old batch. That might be a contributing factor for seeping more oil than the others.

[geargnasher]

Yikes! Sorry UTK, I forgot that post, it was on the previous page the way I have my settings. My reminder was for Faret, too, though.

I have some of the Felix/Wiljen lube from almost two months ago, I made my usual muffin ingots with it as well as filled the sizer for accuracy testing, and filled my Pyrex measuring cup with it. Nothing is sweating, or has. It's sticky, soft wax, but not even like a potato chip if you leave a blob of it on a napkin for days. By now, it has definitely passed the test.

Gear

[Faret]

Made my batch yesterday and it looks dry like you said gear will give it a try.

[CiDirkona]

I've already ordered some Caranauba Red and BAC for pan lubing, but as I'm a tinkerer and have already compiled a shelf full of lube ingredients, I wouldn't mind trying to make up some of the FWFL. I don't have a lubrisizer, but wouldn't mind adjusting the lube to make it pan lube-able, if possible. I read one post that said FWFL was too soft for pan lubing.

I'd rather not just add paraffin as the concept of adding a petro oil to the otherwise bio oils is working against the concept of the FWFL. Could I just halve the amount of the other lubes and use more beeswax to harden it, or would that reduce the efficacy? Add more soap to harden it?

Thanks!

Thanks!

[geargnasher]

Make a batch per original instructions first and see how you like it. Then, add more beeswax or carnauba flakes to harden if you think it needs it. Depending on how you do it, the original recipe works well following the instructions on Castpics.net.

Gear

[utk]

I've made a heat test chamber from a cardboard box and using a heater fan to blow hot air.
I also made a power controller and first tested out the design on one of my Lee pots (pic 1).

The whole setup with power/temp controller, fan and heat chamber. A piece of glass on top keeps the hot air inside and allows inspection
I have a thermometer with it's probe inside the chamber to monitor the temperature inside the chamber (pic 2).

After two hours at 122F / 50C the lubes looked like this(pic 3).

As seen from the backside, the seepage is more visible (pic 4).

The lubes are:
1. FWFL with Sodium Stearate
2. FWWFL, "Felix-Wiljen World Famous Lube". The Felix recipe modified by Wiljen with Stearic Acid + Carnauba
3. FWWFL, without Carnauba. Slightly softer, which I want to try
4. NRA 50/50 BW/Alox 350 (Actually a little more beeswax than 50% to make it "dryer")
5. California Saeco Green (BW, paraffin and STP)
6. Old NRA lube (BW, paraffin and vaseline)

Now all that remains is to find a suitable box for the electronics. I will try it on my Lee pots also, to see if I can keep the temps more stable. Otherwise I have a PID controller ready to modify for the higher temperatures...

Edit Oct 5:
I have continued the test today and increased the temperature slightly, to 131F / 55C and run it for one hour, see pictures 5 and 6. Note that Calif. Saeco Green has started to melt. Otherwise, only some more seepage from the other lubes can be observed.

[waksupi]

Very interesting comparison! Thanks!