Shiloh v Pedersoli Sharps

[Johnny bravo]

Hello gents:)
I am not trying to playing the devil’s advocate here but I need answers, hopefully from people who have both these rifles.

My only experience with the Sharps BPCR is with my Pedersoli .45-70. It is accurate and will always outshoot me. Even with my mediocre knowledge of BP loadings I still get 1.5in groups at 100yds and am faring well all the way to 1000yds these days. I can buy a Pedersoli LR or Quigley model for approximately £1450 in today’s money. If I covert that into US currency I should be able to buy a Shiloh LRE for the same. Checking some of the big US dealers, I see some Pedersolis are more expensive than the Shiloh’s.

So, my question to you is if you had the cash and had to choose between a Shiloh and Pedersoli costing about the same, what would you choose? And why? I am keen on the why’s as I want to know if the Pedersoli is inferior in any way to the Shiloh?

At the moment I have the choice of buying a new Shiloh that has become available and a brand new Peds on order. The particular LRE Shiloh is more expensive and atleast to my eye, slightly less handsome than the Ped[smilie=1:. Personally, I find the Pedersolis extremely well made and can’t think of anything bad to say about my own rifle. The few Peds I have shot have all been good shooters. As to Shiloh, I have absolutely no experience except what I read on here on the web. Is it all hype or is Shiloh the better rifle? I am at loggerheads over what to decide and hopefully you gents may be able to give me some good input.

Regards.

[freedom475]

I like the Ped 74 better because of the bigger lock, I have never been disapionted with mine. As with your results, my Ped shoots quite well.

The wood to metal fit is no contest, the Ped just can't compete with the American made guns. That being said, I think most compititions are won with the American guns as well.

[Dan Cash]

I would go with Shiloh or C. Sharps. Both are top of the line. Shiloh has a big back log of orders so you wait a long while. I have a Montana Roughrider that is not for sale or replacement.

[Bullfrog]

I have heard the same. I have had a Pedersoli both Sharps and Rolling block. Both out shoot me. I long to have a C. Sharps. One day I probably will. I now have a Taylor (Amri Arms) I have yet to shoot it. Lost my sharps due to some financial issues. Anyway, point is that Shiloh are about 2500 and up and you can get a C Sharps for about half.

[August]

We shoot every year on New Year's Day for bragging rights for the entire year. The Pedersoli rifles shoot O.K. most of the time. The Shilo rifles shoot well all of the time. The difference, of course, is in the quality of the barrels. You cannot beat Badger barrels for black powder work in my experience.

Me, I shoot a high wall with a Badger barrel. I've been bragging for two years. The down side is, you gotta pick up the breakfast tab when you hold that distinction.

[405]

This is a very common topic on the various forums. Maybe a couple of parts to it.

The first part is history. The Sharps earned a reputation as an American gun. It was used in early international competitions, had some military use and of course made a name on the buffalo plains. So it has roots as an American gun, not an Italian gun.

The second part is utility, cost, value, etc. I see a lot of Peds shoot very well and in most cases are purchased "over the counter". The Montana Sharps also shoot very well and can be serviced, repaired, customized after the fact in the US by returning to the individual company. Having work done on the various Italiano guns has been known to be very problematic. May be a different story in the UK... dunno? Re-sale value of any Montana Sharps is strong and much better than any of the Italian guns.

So, if you can buy a Montana Sharps for about the same as the Pedersoli, no brainer.. get the Montana, either Shiloh or C. Sharps.

[Don McDowell]

Having no idea of the parts and repair situation you face there I have to speak from my American Exceptionalism. Go with the Shiloh, and never look back.
The Pedersoli's are good rifles, however they are a European interpetation of an American classic rifle. The Italian rifles also have a few quirks in the chambers that can cause some headaches until you get your cartridges and loads figured out, but once you do that they will shoot with the best of rifles, if the trigger yanker has the ability.
I guess my friend Kenny Wasserburger put it best a while back on one of these threads when he said, " you seldom hear of anybody trying to sell a Shiloh
to raise the money to buy a Pedersoli"

With the cost of the Italians these days, it's folly in my mind to pick one of those over a Big Timber made rifle, don't matter which side of the street. But that's here in the US, and you'll have to make your decision on the circumstances there in England.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

If I may:

1. there's a reason (or two) that C Sharps factory has been for sale for more than two years
now.
2. there's a reason Shiloh has been in a back order state for more than twenty years.
3. you get what you pay for, but there is NO reason why the italy Sharps should cost near as
much as a 100% hand made and fitted Shiloh.

I believe it is not how much you paid for something as much as what it costs you to own it. The Shiloh will sell used for more than it sold for new.

Rich

[Limey]

Hi Johnny,

......if what you've got already already shoots better than you, no matter what you buy next.....you will only notice if the new gun....no matter who it is made by.....shoots worse than you!

....so really it is about wanting something new and or different.....and if you can afford to indulge your dreams buy the gun that your heart yearns for the most ....we only live once!

......indeed Christian Sharp's rifle is an American gun....in fact I would say it is a classic gun........but ANY modern Sharp's rifle....where ever it is made, is only a reproduction no matter what the company who makes it is called.....some are better quality, some are more reliable and some cost more.

What ever you decide to do/get....as long as you enjoy it THAT is all that matters.

Safe shooting,

Limey

[BPCR Bill]

Lots of good and valid reasons here for buying a Shiloh. And of course, there are some folks who have had a bad to-do with Shiloh, for any number of reasons. Personally, I've never had a sour run-in with the folks at Shiloh, though they can seem a bit aloof at times. I do have a C. Sharps high wall that is the best quality, as well as a couple Shilohs.

I've seen the Peds shoot extremely well, and a friend actually has a Pedersoli 74 Sharps block in his original Sharps. The original kept breaking the one piece firing pin, and that just sucks at a match.

All this aside, I would buy a Shiloh or a C. Sharps before an Italian job for the simple fact that I am an unashamed Nationalist. Buy American. You do not have that burden to bear, and I don't think anyone will think less of you for purchaseing a Pedersoli!

Regards,
Bill

[martinibelgian]

Johnny,

make sure you price that Shiloh Correctly - by the time you have added shipping to the UK, taxes, import duties etc, you will have added >30% to the over-the-counter price in the US for that Shiloh. If you're really hankering to get one, that shouldn't stop you - but to avoid some surprises, I would try and calcultate a price delivered in the UK...
Add the following to the list price in the US:
1. Shipping
2. VAT
3. Import duties
4. Brokerage fees
5. Export and Import permit fees (if any)

I know that for Belgium I have to add around to 30-40% to the original purchase price to get my final cost. And then the Shiloh will probably be a good bit more expensive than the Ped. Worth it to you? Only you can decide...
As to accuracy, there won't be much of a difference. Fit and finish, the Shiloh should be better. same for pride of ownership and resale value.
I just get myself an action and a barrel, go to my 'smith, and ask him to build me a rifle - that way I can get whatever I want...

[Johnny bravo]

Thank you all for your replies. Much appreciated as it has really helped me to focus on what I am really looking for in a 2nd rifle; calibre & aesthetics.

Calibre; the particular LRE for sale is a 45-120!! Whereas the Peds Boss that I have on order is a more manageable 45-90. Aesthetics; the Peds Boss looks very similar to the Shiloh Hartford which is what I really would buy if I had the choice, whereas the LRE looks pretty similar to my Peds Silhouette with its schnable forend, pistol grip and shotgun stock.

As Limey Pointed out, I already have a rifle that shoots well and I want my next rifle to be something more, aesthetically as well as performance wise. The calibre of the Shiloh makes it a no contender as I really don’t fancy shooting a 45-120.
As for the no brainer part, the Peds is actually £600 less than the Shiloh ( I kept telling myself it was only ‘slighly’ less[smilie=1:) So, I guess I should be pretty sad to waste that extra money on a rifle just for its name when I very well know I won’t be able to shoot it or don’t like the looks of it.

MB, this Shiloh lives locally;)

I think I will stick with the Peds on this one. And I can honestly say the reason I put the question up on the first place was because that damn rifle was a LRE in 45-120 and I needed to be convinced NOT to buy a rifle just for its name. Because of the rarity of Shilohs here, one's tempted to buy the very first one he sees:oops:Had it been a Hartford in 45-90 I know what I would have bought, 600 pounds difference or not!!

Thanks again.

Regards.

[405]

If I'm reading your choices correctly... 45-120 vs 45-90? Yes, the 45-120 can be a little much to deal with. Most shooters find that the 45-110 is about the limit (me included). As far as the L 600 difference in cost... that would easily vanish in the re-sale difference. Sooner or later that gun will be sold either by you or one of your relatives.

An analogy to the US made Sharps vs Italian made Sharps branding from your perspective might go something like:
A person wants a truly classic rifle for whatever reason (doesn't matter). He wants a fine double rifle. Like many of us, he's read all the classics about the golden age of the African Safari. He knows that an H&H double will cost a certain amount of money. But, he also has the opportunity to buy a very functional foreign cousin to the classic double for a little less money. The design, appearance, and finish are nearly identical to the H&H. The markings on the less expensive copy are even jazzed up to look like an old original but the rest of the stamping on the gun reads something like....
"DWM Bell Express Double - hecho en China-". :roll:

[martinibelgian]

Johnny,

You just mentioned a good reason why that Shiloh is pretty cheap, relatively speaking... And a rebarrel does cost a bit in the UK.

[NickSS]

I own shiloh, C.Sharps and Pedersoli Sharps rifles (1874 model). They are all excelent shooters or I would not own them. Of the three makers, the Shiloh made rifles are really top draw with the C. Sharps only a infinitesimal bit less so. My two Pedersolls are excelent rifles. The fit and finish on my older one is definitely inferior to those made today (its about 25 years old). My newer one is very good fit and finish wise but there are a couple of things that lower its appeal to me. One it is too shinny for my taists and second the collor case hardening is thin and looks like an acid collor case not a true deep case hardening of the Shilohs. The wood to metal fit is very good but not in the perfection class of the Shiloh. I have shot the very best groups I have ever fired with my Shiloh long range express in 45-70 (10 shots into 7/8 inch) My Pedersolli rifles will max out at 1.5 inches for me off a bench rest at 100 yards. However, I would recommend against buying a 45-3.5" or a 45-2 7/8" chambered rifle unless you will primarily use it for Hunting big game. The 45-90 is the best of the larger capacity cartridges.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

While I am a Shiloh Guy through and Through, I would recomend the 45-90 Pedersoli over the 45-120.

However I disagree with Nick the 45 2-7/8ths is more then up to the task of competition, and for any long range match 800-900-1000 yards or even a mile. It takes a back seat to no one.

PS: it is also more then capable of setting world record Groups at 200 yards.


The Lunger
Sir Harsh Sr. 45-2-7/8ths Paper Patch
Kenny Wasserburger

[Turboman]

Having both myself,I still tend to lean towards the shiloh,My pedersoli shoots like a dream,And the wood to metal finish is pretty good to,Butttttttttttttt push come to shove Ill take a shiloh ,Nothing like them in my opinion,

[Gunlaker]

I haven't got a Shiloh (yet), but I've got a Pedersoli and a C.Sharps. While I do like the Pedersoli, I really like the C. Sharps. I find the sights on my C. Sharps to be of a better quality than the ones on the Pedersoli.

Next is a Shiloh, or maybe another C.Sharps, but in .45 2 7/8. Or maybe a C. Sharps 1885. Gotta sell a couple of the more modern rifles first though to make some room in the gun safe :mrgreen:

Chris.

[yarro]

If you are like me and intend to should some four legged creature at less than 200 yards with it, then a Pedersoli is fine, preferably a used one that you know how it shoots. If you intend to casually shoot long range and don't care if you have the tightest group then the Pedersoli is fine. If you aren't sure what you want to do with it, buy a used Pedersoli. If you really want a Shiloh, but don't want to wait, buy a used Pedersoli and shoot it while you wait then sell it when you get your Shiloh. If you want the best looking rifle with the best fit and finish, buy the Shiloh. If you want the one most likely to be the most accurate, buy the Shiloh. If you want the best chance to be the guy at a match with the smallest group, buy the Shiloh.

-yarro

[Bullfrog]

If you are like me and intend to should some four legged creature at less than 200 yards with it, then a Pedersoli is fine, preferably a used one that you know how it shoots. If you intend to casually shoot long range and don't care if you have the tightest group then the Pedersoli is fine. If you aren't sure what you want to do with it, buy a used Pedersoli. If you really want a Shiloh, but don't want to wait, buy a used Pedersoli and shoot it while you wait then sell it when you get your Shiloh. If you want the best looking rifle with the best fit and finish, buy the Shiloh. If you want the one most likely to be the most accurate, buy the Shiloh. If you want the best chance to be the guy at a match with the smallest group, buy the Shiloh.

-yarro

Texas Logic and intellect. I love it :drinks:

This is the best advice I have heard in a long time :)

I own a Taylor which is an import because I can not afford a Sharps yet. I had too many hobbies one of which was my Vtwin 1100 that some inconsiderate woman turned into a paper weight with me on it going 60 mph.
My hobbies just shrank by one. Doc says I have a bone sprue (not spur) that reattached right where my butt stock places on my shoulder. I gotta wait to see what becomes of it, but I am looking to customize my Marlin with a mercury reducer and a brake if that don't work to tame it enough to shoot. Doc says I can't bend the hardware in my collarbone, just break the bone again LOL

For now, I must keep what I have and enjoy what I got. Taylor import is as good as it is gonna get unless someone comes up with a good trade for a sharps. I think I would cull out a few of my blackhawks for one :)

[Don McDowell]

Derek that Taylors will shoot fine, but you may want to do a chamber cast. I think I've told you this before , but just in case, The chamber on mine is a bit generous, and trimming 45-90 brass down to accomodate the excess lenght cured alot of leading problems.

[mazo kid]

I have both Pedersolis and Shiloh rifles. The Peds will shoot just as good as the Shilohs. Yes, the fit and finish of the Shilohs is a bit better but you can order more options with a Shiloh. I would also shy away from the 45-120 as the cost of brass and powder is prohibitive. I had a Shiloh in 45-110 and never got it to shoot well; the friend who bought it from me couldn't make it shoot either (more powder=more fouling). Yes, I know there are shooters who do well with the 110 and 120 but I think it takes a lot of experimenting and playing with variables, just a bit more than the average rifle. My 2 cents worth.

[Bullfrog]

Don, I think I have the honor of addressing Ranch 13 from the other forum. :) Ya I haven't yet got a casting down. I am still uncertain of the shoulders damage from the accident. The doc says I can not bend the hardware but the bone fragment attached in such a way that my butt stocks will sit right on the tip of the new spur.

Mazo, I read several articles and the book by Mike Venturino. From what I can gather, folks kept trying to create "Magnum" cartridges in that day by lengthening the cartridge out. It was akin to the WSSM ,all the Magnum hype and the prototypes that continue today. I have not seen a need for more than my standard cartridges. I had a 300 winmag. Didn't much like it and went back to my .308. I can shoot plenty fine with my .45-70
A fella I went hunting with had a super fine rifle in 7mm Mag and was bragging how far he could shoot something. How inferior my .308 was in comparison. I got a deer that year and he did not. One well placed shot behind the right shoulder and she went down. Guess my point is that I don't need to spend tons more on powder, brass and lead to do the same thing and pound my shoulder needlessly. Of course this is my opinion and there are some fine shooters in the larger super fast calibers. I guess the plain and simple Mazo is that I am agreeing with ya

[Don McDowell]

:mrgreen: Aw shucks Derek, I shoula node I couldn't fool an ol tracker like you:drinks: