8mm rifles

[jballs918]

well guys im not really sure where to put this so i will put it here. i know alot of you all shoot the 8mm. im looking ot pick one up and i know there are several out there. can you guys give me a review if you have one. i have no idea when it comes to these. i was looking at maybe a nice m48 i like the looks of those. thanks guys

jason

[NVcurmudgeon]

jballs, I have a M 1948 Yugoslavian Mauser. It seems to be as well made as a German Mauser, and shoots very accurately. Two oddities abut the Yugo 48 are the teak stock, and the throat is shorter than on the German rifles. The Yugo throat seems to be modeled on the Czech VZ 24. What this means in the real world, is that the Yugo requires very long cast boolits to be seated very deep. OTOH, light and medium weight bullets don't have to make a long jump before reaching the rifling.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I'm kinda partial to the CZ 98/22 Mauser (circa 1924) which I picked up at Big 5 sporting goods here in Las Vegas a few years ago. Century Arms International was importing them and selling them for about $110. Mine had a totally grease soaked stock and I took it apart and laid it out in the sun and kept on wiping off the gunk as the sun cooked it. It doesnt take too long here with temps in the 105 areas. The bore was perfect and it is a good shooter. I run used 30-06 Cases thru a set of lee 8 mm dies and it opens up the mouth to .323 and pushes the shoulder back 6 MM to 7.92 MM x 57 MM. Then I cut off the excess 6 MM of case mouth with my power trimmer and chamfer out the mouth of the case and insert my cast (Lee 170 Gr. 8 MM) bullet with a GC and load it on top of 13 gr or so of Red Dot and I am good to go. Cheap, effective, low recoil and no nasty corrossive gunk to mess up the barrel. I AM ONLY GETTING 1600 TO 1800 FPS in velocity but that is all I need to plink with. I am not trying to make a hunter out of it. I am only busting steel plates out to 300 yds or so. :castmine:
They are fun and cheap but I warn you that it can be addicting. Dan

[ebner glocken]

I have a 48, definatly worth 100 bucks for a shooter. Dies are on order so no reload results yet but does shoot in 2 inches @100 yards with S&B factory 196 grain soft points.

[StarMetal]

Curmudgeon,

I think you maybe be off on the 48 Yugo, I'll be speaking of the Yugo 48A and the Yugo 48B....I have the 48B..new and unissued from Empire arms. First Dennis from Empire arms said they definately aren't teak stock and wonders how that ever got around. I'll have to agree with him. Mine seems more like oak. Second my has a very deep throat, I can just get the Lyman 323471 seated to touch the rifling. I know the 48A's are the same, but not positive about the plain 48's.

Mine's deadly accurate with just about any bullet. Fine rifle.

Joe

[jballs918]

so then would a 32-170-fn be ok for a 8mm bullet or will this be to short

[StarMetal]

Mine shoots the short Lee very very very well. I think you'll be ok. Don't forget too my Yugo is brand new, the bore is beautiful and dead on .323

Joe

[NVcurmudgeon]

Joe, trust me on this one. While loading Buckshot's 235 gr. Lee custom boolit simultaneously for a 1933 Obendorf pre-Nazi German 98 and my Yugo 48 I found that the Yugo had a much shorter throat. The Yugo had an identical throat to a VZ 24 that I owned briefly. Also, as a San Francisco Bay raised kid and former sailboat owner, I have oiled a lot of teak.

[StarMetal]

Those Yugo 48's must be early one. I think the 48B were made like in 1950's to early 60's. How dark is your teaks stock then? Give me a comparison as to what wood it most closely resembles. I know the wood on mine is very hard for sure. I'm not familiar with teak, I know what it is and all, just never had my hands on all.

Joe

[Buckshot]

................Jason, I don't think you'd be making a mistake at all on that M48. One of the Burrito Bunch has one and it's a good tight, well put together sturdy rifle. Seems to be very well machined and finished piece.

...............Buckshot

[txpete]

I bought a yugo K98K (german capture) when they first came out.excellent rifle.much smoother action than the M48's I have had.not saying anything wrong about the 48's as they are great rifles but just not as smooth as a 98 action.
I haven't shot any cast out of it yet as it was put on the back burner with other projects.
pete
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/guns002.jpg

[Shepherd2]

Take a look at the Yugo 24/47s also. I got one a few months ago and was immediately impressed with it's accuracy. The first round was in the black and everyone since. My son tried it and quickly put in his order for one. I'm just getting geared up for CBs in 8mm so all my shooting has been with milsurp ammo to date.

I don't know what kind of wood the stock is. It's not walnut and it's not teak. It looks like oak or elm and I'm leaning toward elm.

[StarMetal]

Everyone always state how the older K98's of whatever manufacture are smoother operating then the Yugo 48, 48A, and 48B. Did you ever stop to think that those old war rilfe had about a billion bolt cycles on them to smooth out all the rough spots? How many of you have handled and cycled an unissued German K98? I have....just as rough as a Yugo. My Yugo 48B was brand new, unissued and in cosmoline. Yes it's rough, but with use it's smoothing up nice.

Joe

[bruce drake]

Ditto to Starmetal's comments. I've got a Turk 1903 that is smooth as silk and a CZ-24 that could use some more work but still is a nice shooter. My M48A while still having milling marks on the rails is smoothing up the more I cycle the action.

Bruce

[txpete]

over the years I have had a M24, 48,a,b,and bo yugo's.the M48 (matching)was well used when I got it in a trade still not as smooth as the K98K in the pic above.
I am a mauser nut and just my .02 your mileage may vary :)
pete

[jballs918]

hey guys let me throw this in. one of the reasons im trying to stay away from the german k98 is becuase i want to put a scope on it and i dont want to ruin the value of one. the m48 looked pretty good.

[StarMetal]

txpete,

And why would you suppose the Yugo isn't as smooth as your K98? Difference in metal hardness, difference in clearances, what?

Joe

[txpete]

starmetal maybe in QC I am not sure and no expert.maybe the germans just did it better.maybe because of the shorter action of the 48's??no slam on the yugo's great rifles.
pete

[waksupi]

I think metal hardnesses have a lotto do with it. The old Krags are very hard, and very slick. I've seen a lot of modern made actions with the hardnesses too near, between bolt and reciever. Galling is the usual result, and binding in minor cases.

[Frank46]

Joe, I have the bo egyptian yugo mauser. First near mint mauser that I have ever owned. Its stiff and tight. But with some work it will loosen up. My only complaint is that the sights start out at 200 meters. Shot it the other day at 100 yds and while I expected it to shoot high the point of impact was about a foot over my aiming point. So will have to scrounge around for a higher front sight. The stock on mine kinda looks like birch or beech. And is sort of a medium blonde. Those 8mm 196 gr j-word bullets that selleir & bellot loads thump you pretty good. There is a post on surplus rifles.com down in the stock care section. L.A.'s totally awesome cleaner. Some of the posters have been raving about it as they report good success in cleaning out the cosmo and dirts off mil surps. Can be bought at dollar tree stores $1 a medium spray bottle. I bought some but have not tried it out as yet. Frank

[Shepherd2]

Frank46 - Brownells has Mauser front sight blanks on page 321 of the current catalog.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have fancied getting a Yugo, but have bought so many rifles lately that I have decided not to.

I just realised I have an old K98 which was one of the real old long barrelled German rifles confiscated after WW1.

I was going to use the action to build a sporter some years ago, but when I pulled it apart I fod it was pitted on the receiver ring below the wood.

It might be ok for cast though.

It has been buried in my safe for years.

[omgb]

My milsurp 8mm ammo arrived today. It is all marked 1950s mfg. No doubt is is corrosive but big deal. Water is free.. almost. The bullets are non-steel core! That means that we Kalipornians can shoot them at ranges that are inside the national forrest without breaking the law. (steel core ammo is verbotten as it is a proven fire hazard in the tinder boxes we loveingly call forrests) The cases are brass too although they are Berdan primed. I haven't shot any of it yet but if it shoots like it looks, this stuff is going to be sweet. I got 600 rounds for about $60.00 including shipping.

R J Talley

[Jeffreytooker]

Who did you get the 8MM milsurp ammo from?

Jeffrey

[omgb]

Sportsman Guide. They have two types, the 1950s stuff (the make I bought) and some more recent CZ or Romanian stuff from 1970. The 1970s ammo is steel cased and definately steel cored. I'm not sure if it's corrosive but I'd play it safe anyway. The 1950 ammo was $49.00 for 600 rounds boxed 20 rounds to a carboard box 192 grain FMJ. It comes in a large carton. The 1970s stuff is maybe 152 grains FMJ and comes in sealed cans. I'll check on the price and see if I can't post a link.

[omgb]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/browse/browse.asp?c=96&s=957 The link there should take you to the web site. I like SG over Cabelas and others because the shipping is so dang cheap. It was about $12.00 and 6 days to my front door. You can't beat that with a stick.

[fourarmed]

Mick, is that WWI Oberndorf marked K98 or Gew98?

[Ivantherussian03]

I traded a M48 Moauser for a K98. It is the bomb. It is very fun. I put my k98 in a high end synthetic stock. It shoots like a dream, doesnt kick too bad. I am shooting a 50 grain H380 powder load through it, and getting decent results, respectable anyway.

They are addictive I want another 8mm.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Mick, is that WWI Oberndorf marked K98 or Gew98?

I don't know, the rifle is back home (I'm on a temporary posting 150miles accross a dirt road. I will be going home next weekend, I will have to dig it out take a look.

It was a 1915 or 1917 from memory.

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I have a Yugo 48 too. I have some 50s manufactured Yugo ammo, corrosive of course, which I use for plinking. $89.00 for 900rds in a wood crate at a gun show, on stipper clips, in 15rd boxes. I clean it with a mixture of windex and pure ammonia after I fire the corrosive stuff.

To make cheap ammo for when I don't want to have to worry about immediate clean up. I pulled a bunch of the bullets, 198gr FMJ BT, and dumped out the powder. I weighed 10 of the powder charges for an average. BTW this milsurp ammo was very consistent in charge weight.

Using cases formed from commercial 30/06 brass, primed with noncorrosive commercial primers, I load with a charge of the milsurp powder, reduced 15% from the average, and the milsurp 198gr FMJ bullets. Cheaper than commercial bullets, and the powder is free. I chronographed 10rds this morning before work, average velocity was 2076 f.p.s. Seems like a good load, and there is room to work up if more velocity is needed. Although, I want to shoot these for groups first as the recoil is very mild. Best part is, I can clean the rifle later.

SSB

[brimic]

I have a M48 that is a nice shooter. The safety doesn't work on it and the back of the receiver is peened, but it does group good and the price was right.

Fow a very high quality 98, I prefer the 98/22 or 98/29. Compare quality of these rifles to a M48 side by side and they put the m48s to shame.:cool:

[versifier]

Jason, You are correct that the value of a 98 would be adversely effected by d&t for scope mounts. On the other hand, you can often get a good deal on a sportsterized (not necessarily Bubba'd) 98 that has already been done. This will save you the expense of having it done to the 48. If the rifling is in good shape, it doesn't make much difference as to how well one shoots vs. the other. Which is most readily available to you? What weight boolit are you going to start with? The 98's in my experience do have longer throats, and have little longer actions than the 48's.

[wills]

“Most of the Turkish Mausers now on sale for $40-50 are a version of the Model 98, made in Turkey in the early 40's. These rifles are (at this time) plentiful and cheap, and as of yet have no historical value. This means that they are perfect raw material for the amateur gunsmith or tinkerer”

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkmain.html

[Ivantherussian03]

I think you should just build the rifle you want. They have no real value anyway. It is hobby, your not going to make any $ from it. They were manufactured in the millions. They are only special to the people who own and shoot them, unless there is numerical reason that makes a weapon unique.

That is the beautiful thing about military surplus weapons. They are cheap. I can't think of a better reason own them. I have a K98, with a Williams peep sight mounted on it. Now, I want one with a scope or Mojo sight, just to experiment with. You buy build them, shoot them, and trade them off when your bored with them. When I think of buying new weapons I think of buying them in 2 and 3's.

K98's might be a bad example. They are expensive compared Yugo's, and Mosin Magants knock off's M44's, out of those ex-commi Eastern European nations, now those are cheap, $44 bucks. And what are you out if you screw one up, --next to nothing.

Modifying these a great weapons is a great way to learn, and understand your weapon.

I am kinda a purist at heart. I had that K98, and I was hesitant to mess with it, mostly for fear of screwing it up. But now, I have a nice/comfortable rifle to shoot. The vertical drift problem (which is classic problem of military sight) that happens while shooting the military sighted was solved with the peep sight. Now I have dependable "meat gun", as my buddy calls them.

To me it is all about customizing. Customizing your gear to fit you needs and purpose--then you have something unique.

Just some thoughts.

[hydraulic]

Jballs: If you're planning to bubba a milsurp why not go to the gun shows and buy one aready ruined? There are slathers of them that the owners will take about any offer just to get rid of them. Usually $100 or less will get you a mauser that has been drilled and tapped, stock cut, sights milled off, reblued, etc., etc.,

[Ricochet]

Re "teak" stocks:
http://p102.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm9.showMess age?topicID=4823.topic

[CaptDave]

Guys,
I can't say if the 48's have teak stocks or not since I don't own one, but being a sailer and familiar with teak....it is a a hard, dense, naturally oily, wood with a deep honey color. Maybe a little darker than the Kroger store honey, and more like honey from hives located near wooded areas. The grain does not show a lot of contrast like walnut does. It has it's own type of warmth and appeal which differs from the beauty and fancy of walnut.

The 24/47 is a nice rifle...I own one. The 48's are "stiffer". Maybe because they are less used. The stocks are rough enough that they feel like they were only sanded with 60 grit paper. The "slickest " mauser I own is a Chech M24 made by BRNO. The second slickest is a 98-22, also made by BRNO.

Capt Dave

[Hackleback]

It appers that quality stock wood was in short supply when many of the later yugo's were built. I have seen rifles with walnut, oak, beech, ash, elm and teak?(or some other tropical wood), et al ??. It appears that they were using what ever they could get their hands on.

I worked for a company that made hard wood floors for a while. The did quite a bit if bussiness with the Dutch and Germans who were into Plank flooring. You showed these guys a 12" wide clear plank of oak, and they would drool all over it. The point is, big trees are getting hard to find in europe- the stuff good stocks are made from.

Just my .02

[StarMetal]

I have an unissued Yugo 48B and I refinished the stock on it because it was finished very rough. I had it stripped to bare wood. I do alot of wood work and am fairly familiar with various woods. I can say my stock is too dark to be beech and it's not dark enough to be teak nor heavy enough. To me it closely resembles oak, BUT when working it, it didn't smell like oak one bit. It's grain looks more like oak then anything else. I refinished it with my normal stain I use and it come out a really different shade to be honest. It's sorta like that fellow said a dark honey in the thread for the forum that ricochet gave. I honestly haven't worked with teak so don't know it well. But that thread also said they never used teak except for those special SKS's to Africa.

Joe

[versifier]

When in haste to keep an army supplied in time of war, one must use available resources - wood for stocks is no exception. You see an amazing variety of woods used for stocking old and newer milsurps, some of which only a trained dendrologist could identify. The number of different species of hardwoods available worldwide is mind boggling, and even experienced woodworkers often cannot identify them. This shouldn't be surprising as only a very limited number of woods are readily available to us here in the US, even through specialty suppliers. Many species, especially those found in less developed areas of the world have never even been named, or have a local name that may or may not be translatable. Often the best we can do is to identify the family of the source wood, i.e. "some kind of oak". Compare a catalog of what is available from your local supplier with a field guide to trees of North America - maybe a dozen different kinds versus thousands, and then try to imagine it on a global scale. What's it made of? Wood. What kind? Brown, mostly. :-D

[Mr Peabody]

My 48A shoots the RCBS 32-170 great. It's not too short at all.

[Hackleback]

Elm wa used on quite a few. If you have ever tried to split a piece of elm you would know why this would make a good utility stock. Elm is very stringy and hard to spit. Im my mind, a good quality to have if you are making stocks. Elm is also heavy, but not as heavy as oak.

[DLCTEX]

I assume we are talking America elm or something European not Siberian (Chinese). Elm was used to make wagon hubs due to it's resistence to splitting. I like it's reddish grain. Have wondered about Locusts qualities for stock making, it being a cousin to mesquite, which I once made a beautiful stock from , but it is really hard and dulls tools quickly.

[StarMetal]

Wonder why elm isn't a major source for say axe handles? About locust, the stuff amazes me as to how hard it is. Use to cut and sell alot of locust for fence posts when I was young. Man I tell you, after you cut it, skin the bark off it, and it cures or drys, you can hardly pound a nail in the stuff. Lasts a long time for fence posts too.

That stock on my Yugo does have a reddish tint to it. Maybe I can get some close up of the grain pattern and someone here can determine what it is.

Joe

[felix]

Locust is the only wood that those pegs are made of, those cylinder, cube sticks little kids hammer into square or round holes. Locust is the wooden pegs used as nails on expensive boats having wooden floors. Gunstock? You bet! ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix, I have Black Honey locust growing on part of my property. As hard as it is black carpenter ants still chew through it, whether their union or non union carpenters! [smilie=l:

Joe

[felix]

Joe, Black Locust and Honey Locust are two different species, but obviously related. One has a bunch of spikes in a ring, so to speak, somewhere where the branches really start to project from the trunk. I think that is the Honey Locust and not the Black Locust. Both trees require a relatively high calcium soil, as does Yellow Wood, another good stock wood. These tree types can be found grouped together sometimes because of their calcium requirements. Not in wetter locations where ph is generally lower because of leaf decay. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix,

Maybe I got the honey locust cause they sure have the torns, but gues what....they are growing right along the creek area where it's very wet, some a few feet from the creek. All in one area like you say though.

Joe

[felix]

Lots of calcium in the water, Joe. Must have some limestone around there. ... felix

[StarMetal]

That and iron Felix

Joe

[felix]

Perfect, Joe! Calcium inhibits iron in root takeup. Plenty of natural chelates in that stream water, from decaying material, which counters some of the calcium hold on the (iron,maganese,zinc,copper) complex. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Certainly alot of decaying matter in the stream. I was talking to forestry and enviromentalist I ran into one day up the mtn and told him that this forest here was once of the most dense I've ever seen, almost like a Rain Forest. He said I was very observant that indeed some forest in TN were either rain forest or very close to them. Said there was hundred's of different species of tree frogs just in this forest area I'm in. I don't know about that, but I can tell you it's "thick" around here. This is definately a handgun deer hunting area. Shucks I even believe a 30-30 would be concidered a long range flat shooting caliber here. So lots of decaying leaves in the creek along with what other decaying matter the rain washes into it. My well is 356 deep and is the hardest darn water and the reason I have a watersoftener. Still have a problem with the iron though. The water spells like hydrogen sulfide when you run it out of the tap, but disppears after a few minutes of setting. We have an additional piece of equipment on the softener to combat that iron in the media bed. I know that went I drain my hot water heater I get absolutely nothing out of the bottom of it besides the water. The softener filters out alot of the minerals. Also get long life out of the hotwater tank.

Joe

[versifier]

Wonder why elm isn't a major source for say axe handles? Joe

Unlike ash and hickory which have some "spring" to them that helps to minimize the transmission of the force of the blow to your hands, elm does not. It also lacks the straight, even grain of ash and hickory and is difficult to get a smooth finish on. (Have you ever split wood with a metal-handled maul? I used to wear a pair of PAST gloves to use it. We also had been given an old sledge hammer for driving wedges that some sadistic SOB had fit with an elm handle. It stung the hands like the big maul and left a good supply of splinters to boot. I replaced it with ash after one day with it.)
It's some tough, though and it made great wagon wheel hubs as long as it was turned and bored while green. IIRC, I believe it was also used for the bottoms of sleigh runners.
Once it dries out it's like trying to work with concrete. We removed a few dead ones for firewood one fall. "Resistance to splitting" is a bit of an understatement. It was so tough to split we used a chain saw vertically on the rounds because it ate our metal wedges (we recovered two of them later from the stove) and gagged up the hydraulic splitter. [smilie=b: It made a nice hot fire though. I don't know how it would work for a stock, you'd have to do most of the roughing on it green and hope it didn't twist and check while drying. There are so many woods much easier to work.

[DLCTEX]

We seem to be turning this into a discussion on wood. The mesquite we have here on the rolling plains of Texas is not the curly mesquite variety, but can have some wonderful grain, particularly in crotch and root areas. The problem is finding a piece large enough that doesn't have voids that weaken criticle areas, or borer holes that make it unusable. Some holes or voids can be filled with sawdust mixed with glue, giving character ( an excuse for flaws). On a living tree I've seen sparks fly from a chainsaw, possibly from sand embedded by the wind.
The mesquite trees in my part of the panhandle do not grow large enough to cut a decent piece of wood from, too far north I think. 200 miles south where I grew up , some trees can be found that exceed 15" in diameter, probably 100 yrs. old.
Prior to that, there were very few trees on the rolling plains, and none on the high plains due to fires every year.
By the way, Black locust is the one with the wicked multiple pointed thorns in abundance and large, curly bean pods, honey locust has fewer, smaller thorns usually on the younger growth only and thin smaller, straight pods.