powder horns

[Taylor]

I have been given 2 fresh horns,(I cut them off myself,so they are fresh).I wish to make a couple of powder horns,but don't have a clue as to how to prepare them.That's a sad thing for a Kentuckian to say,but alas it is true. If some of you fine gentlemen could be of help, I would be most appreciative.Any books or material I might buy,or ideas from someone here.Since this is the muzzleloader section and powder horns normally go with front stuffers,I assume this is the correct place for this post,my apologies if it is not.Thanks.

[waksupi]

Taylor, they will need to dry enough, for you to be able to get the cores out first. Or, you can boil them for awhile, and slip them off. Then let them dry. They will smell muy bad until dry.
One of the "Book of Buckskinning" series has a very good article on making powder horns.

[fishhawk]

actualy they do more than smell bad...they down right stink! thats the part i hate most about starting with a "raw" horn. steve k

[pietro]

There are many articles/websites if you google "making powder horns".

http://home.att.net/~mman/PowderHornMaking.htm

.

[Beerd]

you can boil them for awhile, and slip them off. Then let them dry. They will smell muy bad until dry.


It is advisable to do this outdoors [smilie=1:
..

[Dean D.]

Hey Taylor, check out the forum over at http://www.americanlongrifles.com/ in the "Accoutrements" section there are alot of people making and giving tips on powder horns. Some very skilled crafts people there.

Here is a picture of my first horn :mrgreen:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/condercliffjumper/Powderhorn004a.jpg


It is a work in progress, I'm doing more carving on the spout area.

Good luck and best wishes on your project! :drinks:

[Boz330]

Hey Taylor, check out the forum over at http://www.americanlongrifles.com/ in the "Accoutrements" section there are alot of people making and giving tips on powder horns. Some very skilled crafts people there.

Here is a picture of my first horn :mrgreen:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/condercliffjumper/Powderhorn004a.jpg


It is a work in progress, I'm doing more carving on the spout area.

Good luck and best wishes on your project! :drinks:

Interesting scrimshaw what is it supposed to be.:kidding:

Bob

[Dean D.]

Abstract interpretive art Bob!

It will be my day horn so I was not going to worry about any fancy scrimshaw. I think the original scratches in the horn give it character.

[Taylor]

I like it Dean.Thanks guy's for the info.Lot's of help..I new you'all would come through. I am currently in the process of making cow horn soup,the dogs are quite impatient too.You should have seen my 17 year old holding his first cow head,especially when he ran out of horn to hold on to,(eew,eww!!).I had read or thought that I did anyway,that a long boil would create a brown color to the horn,But now I can't find it.Anyone familiar with this?Or did I simply not read this?

[waksupi]

To color horn, do your work to final polish. Then boil the horn in Rit Dye, using Golden Yellow, with a bit of brown added. Start light on the brown, and add as needed. Easier to make it more brown, than to take it back to yellow.

[Taylor]

Waksupi--are you familiar with the "traditional" method? The way it was done "back in the day"? 'Cause I'm sure they did not have rit dye.Maybe some other dye source. Of course your idea is sure an easy enough one.

[fishhawk]

well you know back when they were the only way to go they wernt trying to make them look like 200 years old from use. they darken and brown up from handleing them for many many years. same as the guns then they was new guns they didn't look like they been dragged behind a wagon for 50 years and used and abused. steve k

[waksupi]

I believe many of the old horns were indeed dyed, by the professional horners. Although the brand Rit may or may not have been available, there were certainly natural and analine dies available, in virtually any color.
Horns do change color with age. I have some original horns, and have seen many over the years. Some were obviously dyed, while others show the natural coloration through being oiled, and the grime of handling over the years. The old timers had the same sense of beauty as we do, if not more so, and the colored horns add much to the final appearance. I personally couldn't imagine making a scrimshawed horn without having made the background a more pleasing color than white.

[fishhawk]

i agree they did have many differnt types of die. but i'm not that sure they did that much dyeing of the horns. as you know there are many differnt colors in horns them selfs and a white horn then may have been outside the norm for horn color. steve k

[Wayne Smith]

One common way was to boil it in tea. That darkened it enough to not show in the woods. There were a lot of ways to color clothes or horns but tea was common.

[waksupi]

One common way was to boil it in tea. That darkened it enough to not show in the woods. There were a lot of ways to color clothes or horns but tea was common.

Wayne, I just tried that. Absolutely ruins the taste of the tea! :x

[beemer]

I scrape mine thin enough to see through when held up to a strong light. Most of mine are amber where scraped and then fade into white. I don't worry about the color, a little soot usually takes care of that. A brass spout from a copper flask and a reworked 32 case for a cap is my favorite pour spout, it makes it easy to pour into a measure. I'm going to turn the base plug for my next one on my lathe instead of fitting it to the shape of the horn. I have a tap and die for wood so I'll try to make a filler plug in the base.

beemer

[FL-Flinter]

The majority of color comes from the patina built-up by use; powder fouling, common dirt & grime and especially oils and greases. Original horns were often treated with a variety of things including copper solutions (thus the term "greenhorn") for two primary purposes being protection against bugs and waterproofing; the coloring was a side effect.

For as many makers of horns, there are likely as many processes and each process depended upon the resources available at the given time & location. Tannins were probably the most commonly used in areas further away from population centers as they are extracted from leaves, bark, buds, nuts and roots and are natural bug repellents. Animals fats and organic plant oils & waxes were used as water repellent; all oxidize and darken over time. The frontier people didn't hop in the shower every night either, they sometimes went for weeks, sometimes months, without any kind of bathing which means a large amount of human skin oil was transferred to everything they touched; this also oxidizes and darkens over time creating what we now call "patina".

One thing that is often overlooked is the fact that back in the day, horners, scrimmers, tailors, ect. were not trying to create the "old look" as so many people want today. Items were new and shiny, the "patina" of grease & crud came during daily use. Liken this to going out and buying a shiny new pick-up truck - are you going to bring that new truck home off the dealer's lot and knock some dents in it, rub charcoal and black shoe polish into the seats and door liners, scrape some paint off here and there and then throw salt water on it to create the "patina" of a 20 year old work truck? Of course not so why would we think that a sailor putting some scrim on his new knife handle in 1463 would want that knife to look like it was made in 1210? The point was to show pride in one's work just as today you would show-off your shiny new pick-up in the clubhouse parking lot just like someone from 1780 would be showing off his shiny new horn, knife, hawk or gun.

[northmn]

There are people that build rifles that want to antique them as well as other accouterments. Each to his own, but a rifle carried back then did not look 100-200 years old. The best way to age anything is to use it. Another issue on horns is that there was also a difference in the source of horns. Some came off of buffalo. You can also boil the horn to fit it to different plugs. Some made flat "flask" horns doing that. Mostly what has been mentioned is what is done. Scrimshawing a horn is similar to carving and engraving a longrifle. A very common scrimshaw was "maps" showing waterways and landmarks. It was something to do around the campfire. Horns are getting more scarce as more polled cattle are getting bred and also those with horns are getting dehorned at a young age before development.

Northmn

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

Liken this to going out and buying a shiny new pick-up truck - are you going to bring that new truck home off the dealer's lot and knock some dents in it, rub charcoal and black shoe polish into the seats and door liners, scrape some paint off here and there and then throw salt water on it to create the "patina" of a 20 year old work truck?

You Have seen my Pickup truck?




My TC Hawkins gets rubbed down with oil every time I use it and every now & then I take steel wool and polish up the barss to make it shiny but it gets dull again after hunting season. It looks pretty Antique even though its only 40 yrs old.

I have beeen lookng for some horns but not having much luck finding any. Was thinking on hanging them off a lobster pot for a few weeks and letting the Sea Critters eat out all the crap leaving noting left but bone. Then I was planning on tracing some Nautical scean like a whale or fish on with a pencil and carving it out with a dremel tool. I like the idea of using a brass casing as a cap & Measure.

Post pictures as you make progress if you can.

[waksupi]

I do know, that horns I color and patina, generally sell for about $100 more than a white horn, and sell much quicker.

[FL-Flinter]

Another issue on horns is that there was also a difference in the source of horns.

Different sources as well as different breeds. The bottom one in this pic is a goat horn I've got flattened & plugged to be a map horn. I'll try to get a current pic of it before I put the map on but you can see it's a natural amber color. Top two are ox horn.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Accounterments/P1020673.jpg

[gnoahhh]

Another thing to take into account is which side of the cows head your horn came from. Oft time they are pretty symmetrical and it doesn't matter, but sometimes they have compound curves that will dictate which side of the human body they'll hang from in a body-hugging manner.

When I boil a horn I do it outside. (Learned that lesson pretty quick) When "done"- and it usually takes a heck of a long time- I grab the horn with a pair of pliers and slam it down on on the concrete pad. Sometimes several slammings are necessary, but out pops the core. Let dry a few days and go at it. If you want a round plug in it, right when you pop the core out, trim it back to the length you want with a band saw (or a hand saw and your good eyeball) and pound in the tapered wooden plug of the diameter you'll eventually use.

My favored method is to leave the diameter of the base in it's natural shape. I fit a plug in, whittled to a pretty close fit, with some good old colonial style epoxy. When set, I work the whole thing flat/flush with the end of the horn. Then I glue on a block of pretty wood (Cherry, figured walnot, curly maple, etc.) for a perfect seamless fit up against the horn, and shape with files and rasps until I have a nice convex "plug" that follows the contours of the horn. I stake the inner plug at this point with Blackthorn or Locust thorn pegs through the horn. Scraped, filed, sanded, stained, scrimmed, and finished no one has ever guessed that there is epoxy in there. Although I feel a tad guilty for using epoxy in an otherwise traditional horn, I never had one of the hundred or so I've made ever come back with a loose plug.

[rick/pa]

For a good book on making horns, buy Scott and Cathey Sibley's book, available from Track of the Wolf. Good pictures and they take you through the process step by step, from the initial prep to dyeing and carving. In color to boot.

When working a horn, I use a dust respirator. You don't want that dust getting into your lungs. Remember, glue used to be made by boiling horns and hooves. I don't need my lungs glued shut.

I have heard of some people burying horns to let bugs eat the core out. There is a potential problem with this since the horn itself is nothing more than hair itself, in other words, protein and the bugs will eat it too. I have several old horns in my collection that show bug holes eaten in them. This is why some of the old horns were treated with copper sulphate.