suggestions please

[odis]

I need some advice. My wife would like a snubbie for concealed carry and I was wondering if any of the members have any experiance with Taurus revolvers, I'm curious about the ultra lite five shot .38 spl. She definately wants a revolver. otis

[dubber123]

After numerous experiences with Taurus, I would suggest saving for a Smith or Ruger.

[odis]

After numerous experiences with Taurus, I would suggest saving for a Smith or Ruger.Thank you. odis

[Phil]

The original Smith 640 in 38 Spl was a dandy little revolver. In a fit of stupidity I sold mine to finance some other long forgotten project. Later I had a M442, which was also a fine little revolver, but it wasn't as comfortable to shoot due to the light weight. I carried them with max 38 Spl loads behind the 358477 boolit. Not +P, but max standard loads. That is also the load I practiced with. If you loaded practice ammo with 2.7 gr. Bullseye and a lighter boolit for the 442 it was a lot more pleasant to shoot. Thats shooting maybe 50 to 100 rounds per session at 21 feet to 50 feet. At 50 feet both revolvers shot well but the 640 would really surprise you. I really miss that gun. If I were in the market I'd get another of either in a minute. I didn't mind the weight of the 640 at all, and maybe for a woman, especially if she doesn't shoot handguns all that much, the 640 might be easier to control. But that is an individual decision. I have taught several women to shoot handguns and some of them liked the light guns and some liked the heavier ones. Take her to a gun shop and have her handle both, see what she likes. It would be ideal to find a gallery that had both for her to actually fire before buying. If she is interested in shooting you sure don't want to get her a gun that she hates to shoot. We need all the help we can get now.

Good luck,

Phil

[Lloyd Smale]

save for a couple more months and buy a j frame smith. You will NEVER regret it.

[Poygan]

I agree with Lloyd. Buy her a nice S&W Model 36. Great gun and will continue to go up in value. Still can be found at reasonable prices. Taurus is a "maybe" in terms of function and will not be an investment.

[725]

Carried a model 36 for many years. Served me well. I made it fit my hand with other grips. Find one that fits her hand. Colt Det Sp was is another choice, if you can find one. Smith has a better (faster) trigger IMHO and the Colt has a nice long, smooth trigger. FWIW.

[dhoutfit]

I agree with Lloyd, a j frame is an excellent choice. If your dealing with a gun shop, they should let your wife fit a revolver to her hand size, and if they have a few used revolvers of her choice, see if she could shoot one before purchase. Thats called customer service and repeat customer, who spreads good word about gun shop.

[theperfessor]

I have a S&W M36 and a M642, both with Lasergrips. The hammerless one is easier to carry and draw but recoils more because of lighter weight. The 36 allows for faster second shot and possibility of single action use if required, and is surprisingly accurate in that mode. Both work great. No experience w/Taurus but I got both mine as "lightly used" for less than a new Taurus or Charter. Shop around, you might find a deal on one if you're patient.

[Sprue]

I have only owned one Taurus and I still have it, its a 605M Stainless. Its proven itself graciously over the past 4 years. Its diet mostly consists of full house .357 mags, its also has digested a lot of SWC 38 spl too. I have no quams with it. In fact I can shoot it better than the others and there are a few others of the same frame size.

It all depends how many nickles you want to spend. I CCW the 605 mostly because if I loose it..... well it ain't a Smith.

Spend what you can afford as you get what you pay for. In todays market should you decide to sell, I think you would not experience depreciation in value no matter who the manufacturer.

All in all let her pick out what feels and looks good to her. You wouldn't let her choose yours would ya? BTW, if its going to used for CCW expect it to get that "worn" look especially if its toted around in a Pocketbook.

As for the 605, it will continue to graze along with the rest of the herd. She ain't gone nowhere soon.

Good Luck

[jack19512]

I guess I will go against the consensus of the Smith vs. the Taurus. My wife carries a Taurus 38 concealed carry and I have a Taurus .357 that I like to carry when out in the field. No problem with either. Both are surprisingly accurate. Now I'm not saying a Taurus is better than a smith or that for about the same price I would buy a Taurus over a Smith, but around here the Smith&Wesson is quite a bit more expensive and for concealed carry for the most part the Taurus will fit the bill just fine.

[Glen]

About halfway through this article is a discussion about new shooters and .38s:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellPraise38-SW.htm

You might want to consider a heavier revolver...

[Kuato]

I wouldn't pay squat for a new Smith. Their QA has really taken a dive, unlike their price. And all they've done for a bout a decade is ride the heels of Taurus...All they are now is a trade name.

All my Smiths are old ones. That's why they shoot with no problems.

Odis, there is nothing wrong with buying a Taurus for defense. I have 3 of em & never had a problem with any of em. My Taurus 85 will out shoot my S&W 36 all day long.

[odis]

About halfway through this article is a discussion about new shooters and .38s:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellPraise38-SW.htm

You might want to consider a heavier revolver...My wife has been shooting pistols for over thirty years. I bought her first pistol in 1975 a secuity six. Her currant pistol we bought in 79 a Trooper MK III with a 6 in. barrel. We were just curious if the Taurus was any good. By the way my wife is 6 ft. tall and her fingers though very slim are too long for most autos she prefers the long double action revolver trigger pull. odis

[trickyasafox]

I have a m36 and my mother has a m637- both are great guns and my mother, despite severe arthritis, does not seem to mind the buck of the 637. She has the least expensive crimson trace grips on hers. they are a bit small for my hands.

here is a brief write up of the 637 I did:
http://gunzand****.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-pics-but-637-review.html
and another here:
http://gunzand****.blogspot.com/2008/11/smith-and-wesson-637-initial.html

and here is my take on the m36:
http://gunzand****.blogspot.com/2009/04/smith-model-36-j-frame-review.html

[jack19512]

You might want to consider a heavier revolver...





I read the article and although it was an interesting read I should add some additional points to ponder. My wife doesn't shoot much(I know, I know)and when it came time to purchase her a revolver for concealed carry I actually tried to get her into a heavier revolver for those very points mentioned but she wouldn't have it.

She much preferred the lighter revolvers and that is what she got. For some women that already pack a heavy purse around the added weight did not appeal to her at all. Anyway she does real good with the revolver and likes to shoot my cast boolits and reloads.

Matter of fact it was the ultra lite five shot .38 spl that she picked and loves it. I'm sure the wife of the op would do just fine with it. Now this might not make sense to most of us but when my wife was trying the revolvers out she actually stated that the heavier revolvers were too heavy for her hands. She's not a big or strong woman so like most of us think, it has to suit her, and it does. :smile:

[odis]

I think it's interesting that no one has sounded off about the sp101. That was her first choice but it seems that there is a very long waiting period. Just curious if any of you guys think the Taurus is reliable enough to bet your life on after shooting a number of rounds through it for practice. She wants me to start making holsters again and build her a inside the waist band holster for it. I don't have a problem paying out a lot of money after all we've been together since 75 and I've grown much to ugly to start looking for another wife:):):) if you know what I mean. odis

[stubshaft]

I think it's interesting that no one has sounded off about the sp101. That was her first choice but it seems that there is a very long waiting period. Just curious if any of you guys think the Taurus is reliable enough to bet your life on after shooting a number of rounds through it for practice. She wants me to start making holsters again and build her a inside the waist band holster for it. I don't have a problem paying out a lot of money after all we've been together since 75 and I've grown much to ugly to start looking for another wife:):):) if you know what I mean. odis

If I were in a position to risk my life again. The gun in my holster would have S&W OR Colt on the sideplate.:Fire:

[shotman]

odis many cops did tarurs was a service gun for many cops in small towns. They are a good gun They are now about the same price. One thing they dont have, the "finished " look. get you a buffing wheel and work it over. My choice is S&W but thats cause I have 15 . I like the 337 with a 460 back up. The 460 is a little hard to carry in the back up the pants , but I fit right in with the young kids so I wear a wig LOL rick

[Frank]

What kind of accuracy can you expect from a .38 J-frame type snub nose?

[leadman]

I have a 36 with a 3 inch barrel. Very good gun, easy to handle and accurate.
I've been playing around shooting it a 100 yards lately. Offhand I can keep the group under a foot. Still working to get it smaller.
After having a Rossi and a Taurus, I'll stick with Smith.

[Gray Fox]

I have had a 642 rated for +P for about 6 years and it's my warm weather, decent neighborhood carry gun. (My Kimber Ultra CDP .45 is my not-so-good neighborhood gun.) I carry and shoot the Win version of the old soft lead +P Chicago/FBI HP load. Fackler box tests gave me partial expansion at 21 feet. I usually shot 95/100 on GA's old PI qual course from 3 to 25 yards. I carry one Bianchi speed strip as a reload plus one. I had one of the newer Colt Detective Specials prior to it and I just couldn't shoot it as well, but then I pretty much grew up with an S&W trigger pull, so that might have just been me.

My wife carries a 2" model 60 that's had the hammer bobbed and the action tuned by a former police S&W-trained armorer. We added a set of finger grooved rosewood grips and she carries it in a custom holster purse when she's out and about. She carries Rem +P Golden Saber loads and one or two HKS speed loaders. She likes the extra weight of the 60 compared to my 642 because it tames recoil a bit more.

[Echo]

Or you might consider the new Ruger LCR (Light Compact Revolver)snubby. Thirteen 1/2 Oz, 5-shot, will undoubtedly bounce around when fired, but with target WC's, not too badly, and they let a lot of air in...

[dubber123]

I think it's interesting that no one has sounded off about the sp101. That was her first choice but it seems that there is a very long waiting period. Just curious if any of you guys think the Taurus is reliable enough to bet your life on after shooting a number of rounds through it for practice. She wants me to start making holsters again and build her a inside the waist band holster for it. I don't have a problem paying out a lot of money after all we've been together since 75 and I've grown much to ugly to start looking for another wife:):):) if you know what I mean. odis

I had a Sp101 for a while, and although I eventually sold it, I thought it was a good gun. It's bulkier than a J frame, but if alot of shooting is in order, I would bet it would hold up better. I kept my Mod. 60 for carry due to the lighter weight/smaller size.

I had 1 Taurus Mod 85. It was surprisingly accurate, and dependable. It sounded like a bag of nickles when you shook it after 3,000 rounds. IF you got a good Taurus, it would probably serve well. I haven't had such good luck getting a good one.

[odis]

Thank you for all the advice. I was only curious about the Taurus because they seem to be the only thing available. I'll keep looking and will key on the J frame smith. I know that they are legendary. The local shop told me the .327 Ruger is pretty much unobtainable right now and thats what caught my wifes eye. We'll figure something out. odis

[Frank]

Gray Fox says

I carry and shoot the Win version of the old soft lead +P Chicago/FBI HP load. Fackler box tests gave me partial expansion at 21 feet. I usually shot 95/100 on GA's old PI qual course from 3 to 25 yards.

I was talking to someone who was a bodyguard and wore the Model 36 J-frame for a living for years. I think he said accuracy was 10 feet with that model.

[dubber123]

Gray Fox says


I was talking to someone who was a bodyguard and wore the Model 36 J-frame for a living for years. I think he said accuracy was 10 feet with that model.

NO way! a "professional" who can't shoot? Say it ain't so! :roll:

[jack19512]

Just curious if any of you guys think the Taurus is reliable enough to bet your life on after shooting a number of rounds through it for practice.






I do. On the streets I carry a Glock G26 concealed, but when in the woods I carry my Taurus .357 and don't have any fears that it will let me down.

[9.3X62AL]

No experience with the Taurus revolvers here, can't help with that. But I do have some time with the Ruger SP-101, and I think very highly of them. My sister in MT carries one in 357 Magnum, and I had a chance to shoot it pretty extensively in 1999. It is CERTAINLY the best compact 357 Magnum I've ever used, and was positively docile with 38 Special +P loadings. All told, I've fired about a half-dozen SP-101s to date, and all were fine revolvers.

[pdawg_shooter]

If I were in a position to risk my life again. The gun in my holster would have S&W OR Colt on the sideplate.:Fire:

+1 on the Colt or Smith. Ruger might be ok if you have time to send it back a couple of times to get it right.

[Frank]

Dubber quips

NO way! a "professional" who can't shoot? Say it ain't so!

Professional. Heck, this guy was more than that. He was a career government agent :[smilie=p:

[mtgrs737]

Years ago, my bother in law and I both had Smith 36's with 2" barrels That we used to have informal competions at 25 yards with. Yes 25 yards. I shot 141gr. wadcutters over 3grs, of Red Dot and found mine to be exceeding accurate. We used the standard NRA 25yard slow fire pistol target and we both could keep them in the black shooting single action. We both used the standard S&W round but grips and a Tyler's T Grip adapter for a better grip while maintaining a small profile for concealablity. Go with a 36 or 60 Smith and you won't be sorry, the J-frame Smiths are well known for their quality and will only increase in value with time. Just my 2-cents.

[dubber123]

Dubber quips


Professional. Heck, this guy was more than that. He was a career government agent :[smilie=p:

Aaah, a Gubment man!:roll: I shoot every 2 weeks with a Gubment man. [smilie=1: If he couldn't hit anything past 10 feet with a S&W snub, he was either shooting blanks, or had his eyes closed. 2" at 25 yds. from a rest would be likely with a good shooter.

[Frank]

Right, but in a defense situation, double action, I think Gray Fox's scenario better fits the bill. 3 yrds to 25 yds is how they play with them. Now how do you miss at 3 yards? You'd be surprised.

[NuJudge]

I won a Taurus 85 some years ago in a pistol match. I was not overjoyed with winning it. It shoots well at 7 yards, little tiny groups. I prefer 110 and 125gr +P ammo in it. I have no complaints about its reliability or pointing qualities.

[dubber123]

Right, but in a defense situation, double action, I think Gray Fox's scenario better fits the bill. 3 yrds to 25 yds is how they play with them. Now how do you miss at 3 yards? You'd be surprised.

Not surprised at all. Every 2 weeks I help run our falling plates matches. Range is 7-25 yds. Guess which ones get missed the most? Yep, the close ones. Up close, every one thinks it's impossible to miss, and hurry.

FWIW, I shot a cylinder full of +P 158 LSWC's from my 2" Mod 60 at 7 yds. 2 weeks ago. They shot almost 2" low for me, but in 1-1/2" DA. Considering the major wigglies I had, and the fact that was the first time I had fired it in almost a year, I considered it adequate.

[Frank]

I won a Taurus 85 some years ago in a pistol match. I was not overjoyed with winning it. It shoots well at 7 yards, little tiny groups.

Goes to show you those relics do really amaze. :redneck:

[Down South]

What kind of accuracy can you expect from a .38 J-frame type snub nose?
I carry a 642. I can hit pop cans all day long at 25 yds with mine but that's using the laser sight. I shoot very well with it at 15-20 yds without the laser.
Truth is there is nothing wrong with a Taurus and I would carry one. I think it’s just as dependable as a Smith or Ruger. Taurus QC is much better than it was a few years ago. My first choice would be one of the airweight Smith’s, second the SP-101 then the Taurus.
My daughter carries a 642 too and she is a small lady. I make target loads with 158 gr wad cutters and a low dose of the powder of my choice for target shooting and practice for her and myself.
Being very accurate with a snub at ranges over 25 yds is a bit overkill so to speak. Carry snubs are for really one reason, up close and personal business.

[theperfessor]

I think with any gun there are two kinds of accuracy - the mechanical accuracy of the gun and the accuracy of the gun when shot by a human being. With most snubbies the mechanical accuracy of the gun is probably much, much greater than most shooters can take advantage of, for various reasons.

My M36 with lasergrips off a bench in single action mode is just as accurate as most of my larger, longer barrel revolvers. But being a notoriously poor shot, my useable accuracy offhand with a snubbie is much lower than with a larger gun.

If you got a reliable gun that you can hit with then that's the gun you should carry and the heck with brand names.

[Gray Fox]

I used to train civilian bodyguards (BG), most of whom were cops doing part time work or ex-cops. The periodic weapons qual is often somthing where the training sergeant has to send out the dogs to find everyone who is scheduled. To many, whatever weapon hangs from their belt is just another tool. I'm not saying there are not great LEA pistol shots, but many really sweat having to go to range qual. Declining training budgets don't help, either.

Training these folks was a challenge, especially since most practical BG shooting is going to be close, on the move and one-handed since the weak hand and arm are trying to do something with the protectee. It's only in the movies or in DC/OCONUS where protectees can afford a bunch of BGs. You practically have to tie the trainees support hands behind their backs since one of the two-handed stances has been drilled into them. It's my opinion that a trained double action revolver shooter really excells at this type of target engagement. The preferred reload is a second revolver, AKA a New York Reload.

Sorry for the long winded lead-in, but the bottom line is to get a solid small revolver, get the action smoothed safely if you can (it's hard to find a good local revolver tech these days), and practice DA shooting a lot. Safe dry fire is great, as are the various types of primer-fired soft projectiles. Once you're getting good with your DA trigger cycle, throw in a reload. Then start bringing it all together with your chosen concealed carry rig. Emphasize one-handed shooting, but also two-handed/supported just in case you need to keep someone's head down at a distance.

Break it into manageable self-training bites, then move to a range with practice and carry loads with targets placed from contact distance to 15 yards max. If you have a friend who can video your dry and live fire training you'll learn even faster. With time you'll find that fast, accurate DA revolver shooting is about as natural a shooting system you can master. Your skills and something like the Gold Dot snubbie load will be the deciding factors, not what is engraved on the side of the gun. My $.02 plus a bit. GF

[Crash_Corrigan]

Odis: I have carried a .38 Snubbie since 1964. For twenty of those years for the NYCPD where I was required to be armed 24/7. When I retired I got a permit and I still carry a piece.

In 64 I had Colt DS. I smacked somebody alongside the head with it and the cylinder lock up went south. I got a Smith 36 and when I needed a club I hit a guy in the head and bent the trigger guard in enuf where I could not pull the trigger.

Then I got a Smith Model 10 with a 2 1/2 BBl and a round butt. I could not break that gun. It shot real good and I usually did better with the snubbie than the 4 inch smith service gun. It has something to do with ergonomics and such but I felt perfect in my hand.

I let that one go to get a Smith 586 6" bbl which I love. Along the way I got a Taurus Ultrlite .38. Great gun. As accurate as any other snubbie I ever fired. Not designed for +P loads but I made some anyway and they shot well although the recoil was noticible with a round moving a 1100 FPS.

I used +P Brass, a hand cast 158 GR LSWCHP with really soft lead and some Unique powder. I forget how much but the chono said 1100 FPS and you would not believe what this load does to 4 one gallon milk jugs fulla water. It totally shreds the first two jugs with water blown everywhere, splits the 3rd jug and makes a very large hole in jug #4 and the rounds stop there. Measured with calipers the dia was .855 with little loss in weight. In wet phone books I was getting 16" of penetration and again very good expansion and retention of weight.

I believe the Taurus is an excellent CCW weapon and I love mine. I had the spur ground off and polished and it fits in a pocket real well. The stainless finish shows little wear for all the use I have given it in 6 years. I have over 5,000 rounds through mine and it is still tight and locks up good. It does require a good set of grips. I tried mine with the Bahrimi Hip grips. They have a hook on the right grip to enclose the top of your belt or waitband and make a dandy concealed weapons grip but with those slim smooth plastic grips a hot load in the Taurus is not any fun. The accuracy is still there but you will not want to burn through a box or two of rounds.

If you want something heavier go for a Smith 10 or 15 as they are excellent guns. The Ruger 101 is bulletproof and you cannot break that gun.

I just got a Charter Arms 327 Magnum with the 3" bbl and I am giving it high marks for now. But I have only gotten about a hundred rounds though it and I have yet to try some handloads in it. It is a well finished gun. Carries well and with the magnum loading it will do more damage than a .38+P and in some loadings will outgun a 357 with less recoil.

There are many good guns out there but the shooter needs to handle the proposed guns and even better would be to try them all. It is all in the feel of the gun and how you can work with it and everybody is different.

[Bret4207]

FWIW I really like my Smith Bodyguard Airweight. It's the plain old 38,not a +P or 357. The hammer is shrouded, but you can still get to it for single action. Dano 67 has the hammerless model, a new one the spendthrift, and it's nice too.

The talk of accuracy and double action shooting leads me to mention that nothing- not night sights or fancy grips or frames made from depleted uranium- beats lots of practice. I can still do decent double action shooting from the hip as trained a couple decades ago. The Bodyguard is harder to hit with from the hip, but with practice it'll come along.

[KCSO]

I'm going to second Bret as I have carried a M38 Smith in my coat pocket every winter for over 30 years. I like the idea that I can have a shrouded hamer and still thumb it back if I need to. My dad carries a Dick Special that he has had since 1956 and we argue all the time but at 85 he can still put them dead center with the old Colt.

[odis]

Well I thought I'd just resurrect this thread rather then just start a new one, anyways this past friday my wife and I on our way to close up the lake home for the winter stopped in at a sporting goods store just to brouse. While I was looking at some hunting clothes I noticed her over at the gun displays playing with a snubbie and talking to the salesman. When I approached she turned and says to me " so remember back in 1975 when we first started to sleep together on a regular basis"? I turned almost as red as the salesman and said yes, She says " well you decided I needed a gun for protection when I was alone and you took me out to the gunshop and bought me a security six with custom grips and the two years later you sold it!! Yes and I relpaced it with a trooper MK III a year later, she then says I liked the Ruger better and drops the SP 101 doa with Crimsom trace grips on the counter and says buy it for me. Tomorrow I guess we find out what it will do. I must say marriage can be an adventure.