neck sizing auto loader

[truckmsl]

Just started loading cast with my 7.62x39 ak and have a question. If reloading for the one rifle, can I neck size to save wear and tear on the brass? I know it's recommended to full length size for autoloaders, but does that apply when the reloads are to be used only in the one rifle? I've got a full length sizer for unknown brass, but would like to switch over to extend brass life. Thanks in advance for any replys! P.S. - if you've got any 7.62x39 brass to get rid of, let me know!

[jonk]

In short, no, not a good idea. Might work, but might cause an out of battery detonation- or at very least jam.

Neck sized rounds are a bit snug. I tried neck sizing only for 7.5X55 Swiss in a straight pull and after 2-3 firings, those were a real pain to chamber. Same principle. In a turn bolt gun you have a certain amount of camming action to close the round; that's lacking in a semi, lever action, or straight pull.

[NickSS]

It does not reliably work in a semi auto rifle. If you want to extend brass life in a single rifle do what the match shooters do. Use a full length sizing die but set it so that after the case is sized the shoulder is set back only 0.001". I have a gage to do this for M1 and M14 rifles but you can do it by careful measurements with a caliper. Doing this doubles case life. There is one exception to the full length sizing rule and that is an H&K 91 rifle. Those things will chamber rounds that you can not even hammer closed in a bolt gun. Has something to do with the 2 or three pounds of mass slamming forward to chamber the round.

[truckmsl]

Great info - thanks guys!

[Bloodman14]

For what it's worth, I neck size only for my SKS, and have yet to have a problem. I use Lee's 120 grain CB's with 2 cc's of H322 or H335. Maybe it's just me......

[mike in co]

just cause i run up stream.....
i neck size for two ar-10's
for one ar 15,

the clue is to make sure the case will still chamber.....easily...no force.

a crush fit may do all the bad things you hear about, but my rifles with my sizing , i have had no issues.

sizing got the 7.5x55...in a k31 is best done partial sizing with a redding k31 die.....all else is a krap shoot.
most people just repeat what they have heard...and have no or little experience.
on the other side of the coin, for my ar blasting ammo i use a small base die with mixed brass.

mike in co

[Calamity Jake]

First time use brass in an auto gets the small base sizer treatment, after that it is neck size only, this is for an AR and a garand. I have had no problems.

Like Mike, my K31 gets the redding size die.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Calamity Jake;593088]First time use brass in an auto gets the small base sizer treatment, after that it is neck size only, this is for an AR and a garand. I have had no problems. QUOTE]

You "have had no problems".....YET.

It's my cast-in-stone belief, along with the beliefs of many thousands of other gas-gun handloaders, that cases for such rifles MUST, repeat, MUST be full-length sized AND gauged afterwards to ensure free and easy chambering.

Particularly in the M1 and M1A, with their free-floating firing pins, there must be no impediment to free chambering. The problem is that if there IS such an impediment (and neck-sizing can create one) there is a well-documented risk of slam-firing. This is usually an ignition of the cartridge BEFORE it's completely chambered, and such slam-fires are generally disastrous for the rifle, and often for the shooter as well.

Failing to full-length resize for autoloading rifles is willfully ignoring a very real safety problem. Everyone is perfectly welcome to do as he pleases, but I sure hope I'm nowhere nearby when you gents are shooting such loads.

[mike in co]

i will agree and disagree with bruce on this one.

full lenght sizing MAY NOT be required, checking the case for chambering is REQUIRED.

as i siad...you must check each round to ensure ease of chambering.

full lenght sizing will work, but it will shorten the life of your brass...AND IT MAY NOT be necessary.

precision shooting primer and sierra( i believe) both say size back a few thou....


decide what works best for you.....i'm not a "reloader", i am an "ammo crafter", true custom ammo for each gun, not just a formula from a book.

it has worked well for me.


mike in co

[sundog]

Bruce and Mike got it. Whether you need to run a FLS size die all the way down to the shell holder will depend on how well the round chambers. All rounds must chamber. Actually, I like the idea of using an X die the best.

One other thought - high primers. It was kinda brushed on indirectly when talking about slam fires and floating firing pins. One thing I do for all brass that runs through my Garand is hit the primer pocket with a uniformer tool. Only takes a second first go-round, and then check each primer as it is seated (below flush).

[BruceB]

What's really looking interesting right now is the X-die from RCBS.

I agree that full-length sizing will reduce case life, and I just accepted that fact as a "cost of doing business" in loading for the M1/M1A.

Larry Gibson's excellent test of the X-die in loading for his M1A is an eye-opener, and he claims FIVE TIMES the case life compared to conventional sizing dies. I've just fired the first couple hundred rounds that I loaded with my own X-die, and I'll be watching with great interest to see if my experience parallels Larry's. Do a search for "x-die" to find his tests. They were extensive, to say the least.

This die, working as Larry described, gives us the safety benefit of full-length sizing without the cost of shortened case life. Win-win!

[sundog]

Same here, Bruce. I just started a new batch of brass for the Garand as I'm shooting it for high power again. It's set up with the X die, and I am interested in seeing what happens. Only shortcoming to that die is you apparently set it up for a batch of brass that goes to a particular rifle -- the way I read the instructions, anyway. Instructions say once set up to leave it like it is for the life of the brass. Okay for me, because I'm only using it for that one application.

[Larry Gibson]

BruceB

Thanks for the kind remarks. I will be most interested in your results. I've had reports from others who get the same results and some who get even more firings when the anneal the cases on a regular basis.

Sundog

I use X-Dies with numerous cartridges and the cases and loads are not restricted to "a particular rifle". Examples that are used in multiple rifles are .223 which is used in 2 ARs, 3 bolt guns and a Contender barrel, 6.5 Swede used in 4 rifles, 30-30 used in 2 M94s and a Contender, .308W used in 2 M1As and 5 bolt guns, 30-06 used in M1 and 6 bolt guns and the 8x57 which is used in 3 bolt guns.

If the X-die directions are followed it FL sizes the cases the same as any other FL die so they may be used in any rifle chambered for that cartridge. However, the X-die may also be adjusted for minimal shoulder set back for a particular rifle. Ons should consider them to be a regualr FL die with one aditional adjustment/feature.

Larry Gibson

[tejano]

In my Garand range report of a couple of days ago, I did not mention sizing. I had previously sized the Federal cases that I used with X-Dies and shot them in the Garand. So this time out I only neck sized them. All 20 chambered with no issues. Upon inspection of the brass after firing, one showed evidence of neck splitting (and was discarded) but the others looked normal. This brass had been fired and resized at least 3 times before this last refiring. However, I would also add that I have carefully segregated this brass in a box marked "Garand Only" so that it doesn't get mixed with others. In any event, I don't expect a long life from Federal rifle brass based on past experience. Once these cases are retired, this Garand will be "enjoying" Lapua cases that are still new in the box.

[Calamity Jake]

[QUOTE=Calamity Jake;593088]First time use brass in an auto gets the small base sizer treatment, after that it is neck size only, this is for an AR and a garand. I have had no problems. QUOTE]

You "have had no problems".....YET.

It's my cast-in-stone belief, along with the beliefs of many thousands of other gas-gun handloaders, that cases for such rifles MUST, repeat, MUST be full-length sized AND gauged afterwards to ensure free and easy chambering.

Particularly in the M1 and M1A, with their free-floating firing pins, there must be no impediment to free chambering. The problem is that if there IS such an impediment (and neck-sizing can create one) there is a well-documented risk of slam-firing. This is usually an ignition of the cartridge BEFORE it's completely chambered, and such slam-fires are generally disastrous for the rifle, and often for the shooter as well.

Failing to full-length resize for autoloading rifles is willfully ignoring a very real safety problem. Everyone is perfectly welcome to do as he pleases, but I sure hope I'm nowhere nearby when you gents are shooting such loads.




OK I will start FL sizing my M1 brass. I've done a lot of research on loading for the garand and I don't remember anything about neck sizing and slam fires, I will stay on the side of safety.

[sundog]

Larry, okay, got it. Thanks for the explanation. The X die is something new to me. Looking forward to see how it works over the life of the cases.