Nice result with No4 Mkii

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

I put this down at 100m/110y yesterday with my No4 MkII Lee Enfield equipped with a PH5C sight.

Bullet is a CBE 314 220 in air cooled WW over 19gr H4227 (AR2205) with a 2 ply alum. Freechex gas check. Bullet as cast at .3165 on the bottom band.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/314220No4100m.jpg

I think the lateral movement might be shooter induced.

[Ben]

At 110 yards , you've got my attention.

That is some fine shooting.

Ben

[Maven]

Good job Jeff! Is that Jim's new CB design?

[JeffinNZ]

Good job Jeff! Is that Jim's new CB design?

YEAP. Shoots this well in my SMLE and the Pygmy. Great bullet.

[hornet fan]

Good shooting.

What sort of velocity are you getting with that load?

[JeffinNZ]

Good shooting.

What sort of velocity are you getting with that load?

Velocity in is the magical 15-1600fps band. Very pleasant to shoot.

[Bigjohn]

At 110 yards , you've got my attention.

That is some fine shooting.

Ben

I say, he's got everyone attention.

That lateral spread is a bit of a concern, any other ideas other than shooter induced?

John

[Bret4207]

I say, he's got everyone attention.

That lateral spread is a bit of a concern, any other ideas other than shooter induced?

John

Bedding? I'm impressed Jeff, I may not agree with your political ideas, but you have that 303 down. Good on you!:drinks:

[atr]

Nice shooting Jeff !!!!

What is a "PH5C sight" ?

never mind,,,,I found it on google,,,,now that is VERY nice shooting....your eyes must be really good !!!

[JeffinNZ]

BRET: Bedded action, barrel pressure pointed top and bottom under the middle band, muzzle pressure pointed top only

ATR: Parker Hale 5C. This is a 5A, the earlier verision on an MLE action. Wonderful old sights if you can get them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/IMG_0032.jpg

[Bret4207]

If you're sure it's not bedding, and I'm no expert on SMLE bedding-it's witchcraft to me, then maybe it is the shooter. My eyesight stinks, but I've found an inverted "V" or inverted triangle target helps for me.

[Boz330]

BRET: Bedded action, barrel pressure pointed top and bottom under the middle band, muzzle pressure pointed top only

ATR: Parker Hale 5C. This is a 5A, the earlier verision on an MLE action. Wonderful old sights if you can get them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/IMG_0032.jpg

You've got that right, I paid as much for the sight as the #1MK3 it is on but it sure makes shooting it a joy.:drinks:

Bob

[Dutchman]

I generally read all your notes because I've never seen anybody get results like you with cast bullets in any kind of Lee-Enfield.. which could mean a couple things.. like I don't get out much or just don't pay attention because most people get mediocre results with Lee-Enfields.

First time I tried with a freshly FTR Dispersal rifle with a brand new unfired 5 groove barrel... with Lyman 311299 sized .312" and 12 grains Unique........ in 20 rounds it MISSED a 11" diameter white paper plate at 50 yards. Twenty shots all missed a target you could hit with a rock at 50 yards. I was disgusted and haven't shot it since:). I do realize its most likely the bullet diameter. I may try again because I recently was given a used Lyman 314299 double cavity mold.

My other two .303 Brit rifles are a beautiful Canadian No.1 Mk1* with a bright 5 groove barrel and black walnut. I think it may be one of the Greek contract as its dated 1950.

And I have a fresh FTR Pattern 1914 that was FTR in 1962 with a 5 groove barrel... previously unfired. I've not put it on paper yet but expect it'll put the other two to shame.

All my .303 Brit rifles are on the bottom of the list for cast bullet shooting this year.

My grandfather was in the Canadian Expeditionary Force to France in 1916. He carried a No.1 Mk3.

Dutchman <with Canada-English in the tree>

[45 2.1]

Team.

I put this down at 100m/110y yesterday with my No4 MkII Lee Enfield equipped with a PH5C sight.

Bullet is a CBE 314 220 in air cooled WW over 19gr H4227 (AR2205) with a 2 ply alum. Freechex gas check. Bullet as cast at .3165 on the bottom band.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/314220No4100m.jpg

I think the lateral movement might be shooter induced.

Horizontal dispersion is probably caused by barrel harmonics. Either reduce the load ever so slightly or go up in small increments.

[JeffinNZ]

I shoot front hand resting and elbows on the bench. The day I shot this my right side of my chest was in contact with the bench also I think that may have caused the lateral.

The reality is I have no right to expect a MILSURP .303 Brit to shoot any better (if this well) and if I did get a better group no one would believe me anyway. :-)

[303Guy]

That is indeed nice shooting! I would expect the lateral 'spread' is due to body shake from heartbeat. You wouldn't be able to see it through peep sights but you can sure see it with a scope! Nothing wrong with that group!
The reality is I have no right to expect a MILSURP .303 Brit to shoot any better (if this well) and if I did get a better group no one would believe me anyway.I don't know so much. You did it for starters! I would believe you. My first test group with cast (of my own design and construction) was quite encouraging. (I use the term 'group' loosely - it was only three shots at 45m/50yds or so).

This is it. No rabit or hare would have survived! (If it was close enough). I now wish I had put all seven of the rounds I had into that group to see what it really shoots like. (But then I wouldn't have had a 'brag' group. [smilie=1: ) It was with a scope.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

The load was 35.5gr AR2208 (Varget to the rest of the world. :mrgreen: ) behind a 220gr bullet. That wouldn't have been too anaemic - probably around 1900fps. The rifle was a MkI MLE 1902 vintage but with a (almost) new No4 barrel with tight chamber.


Canadian No.1 Mk1* .... dated 1950. Don't you mean No4 MkI* I have one such but mine is a two groove and the bore is not exacly mint but it does shoot well.

I have come to expect all Lee Enfields to shoot well if the bore is still reasonable.

My point is that the Lee Enfield is actually a fine rifle for cast bullet (and any other) shooting!
(Of course, Jeff already know this).

[Bigjohn]

Jeff, I think you included the answer to you lateral dispersion in your posting. "right side of the chest in contact with the bench".

While a shooter can control their breathing and co-ordinate it with their trigger squeeze, you would have to be in Meditation or like to control your heartbeat.
Consider that you have a body part within you body that expands and contracts in a precise cadence, it will to a minor degree expand/contract the chest wall (which was in contact with the bench).

Consider, that you only have to move the muzzle of your rifle 1/60th of one degree to alter the point of impact 1" at approximately 100yds. With the naked eye, you would not even be able to register that amount of movement.
Personally, I think you have done very well to keep the dispersion down to what it is on this target. BTW what is the spread, Jeff?
Best of luck,
John

[303Guy]

.... Meditation or like to control your heartbeat.
I would go so far as to say the group size should be measured by the vertical spread alone!

I have had groups with a narrow vertical spread change to a narrow horizontal spread and this had me stumped! Reflecting on it now, I realize it was the way my heartbeat was shaking the gun. I even had angular groups. An inaccurate gun produces scatter, not elongated groups - that change from one session to the next.

[docone31]

I have to strongly disagree with MilSurp Enfields being inaccurate.
I have done a competition bedding job on my #1MKIII, and left my two Ishapores alone.
With paper patching, dreams do come true!
When I first fired castings in my Smelly, I was totally embarassed! It was too small in diameter, and I did not know castings took a smaller load. I thought I had a beater.
20min of Berm on a good day! The safest spot was directly in front of the muzzle!
With paper, and proper sizeing, a much different story. I mean tack driver, where even position can show in groups.
They are my babies now. If I had only one choice, it would be my Ishapore with reciever sight. The Smelly I would leave behind as it has a scope. Too much to protect. The scope hits everything when I carry it.

[JeffinNZ]

DOCONE31 : I didn't say they were inaccurate. I write in my accuracy article in the 'sticky' section about being fair to the battle rifle in our expectations.

BIGJOHN : Spread is about 1 1/3 inch.

[Bigjohn]

BIGJOHN : Spread is about 1 1/3 inch.

Nothing there to throw stones at, thats M.O.A. or better; vertical is less.

John

[legend]

very nice,i could not do that at 10meters.

[leadman]

Appears you have the Enfield figured out. I almost always have my chest against the bench when shooting. I found resting the forend on my open hand and light pressure on the rear works for me. My Contender carbines almost always demand the hand under the forend.

Most shooters that are at the range just prior to game seasons opening would be tickled to get a group like that.

[303Guy]

The only complaint I have with the 303 Brit is the short neck which usually gets even shorter on firing. My MkI has a full length neck (and a tight chamber) and this allows me to seat to the 'dough-nut' but leaves no room for a grease cookie, so I use a wax wad instead - melted on to the bullet base. Other than that, the Lee Enfield is a fine rifle and I suspect, perfect for cast and paper patched shooting! It was originally designed for PP bullets and as far as I know has retained the throat design. It's ideal for military use, together with the rimmed cartridge - which I like.

[Stoats]

303guy, the original .303 Mk.I cart had a cupro-nickel jacketed bullet at 215gns and a BP charge. It was never paper patched as a military cartridge.

[303Guy]

303guy, the original .303 Mk.I cart had a cupro-nickel jacketed bullet at 215gns and a BP charge. It was never paper patched as a military cartridge.Thanks for the correction! Now that you mention it, I have never seen anything about PP 303 Brit cartridges. Only the BP part.

[robertbank]

Jeff do you apply a light or hard crimp to your cartridges? I finally am getting some group at 50 yards and am now going to go back to 75 and 100 yds. Presently playing with 4227 18.5 gr and am going to increase load in half grain increments to 19.5 grains. Bullet is the Lyman 314299 cast fro WW water quenched sized 313. Gun is a Longbranch #4 Mke11 made in 1950.

Take Care

Bob
On the other side of the big pond.

[JeffinNZ]

Hi Bob.

No crimp at all. I do anneal my necks on a regular basis to keep neck tension sweet.

You are in the zone with those charges of 4227. 19gr under a 220gr works great as you can see. That is with air cooled WW so you may not need to quench yours.

I put this down at 100m/110y with the CBE 316 240 over 25.5gr Benchmark. Just over 1 1/4 inches.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/IMG_0012.jpg

[robertbank]

Hi Jeff

Since I last wrote I took the time to bed my #4 and #5 rifle. I have applied cardboard strp to the center band and on the front band of the #4. At the front band I applied the carboard (match book cover) on the top and bottom of the barrel. The #5 under the front band. Barrels are solid now.

I am going out on the weekend to see how all of this affects accuracy. Can't hurt and might help. Will let you know how I make out.

Take Care

Bob
ps What is the name of the Australian mold maker. I am going to order a couple of their molds.

[JeffinNZ]

Bob, take enough ammo that you can shoot five, change pressure point, shoot five, change something else and so on. That's how I fine tuned my No4 MkII.

Cast Bullet Engineering. www.castbulletengineering.bigpondhosting.com Be sure to tell him you are a cast boolits forum reader.

[Stoats]

Nature, and Enfield, decreed that the No.5 should be free-floated!