Reject bullets shoot just as good!!

[h1tdk00]

I decided to do a test just to see how bad my rejected bullets would shoot.

I loaded up a bunch of 9mm bullets that had wrinkles, dents rounded off bases, etc. (these were some bad looking bullets) and shot them in a head to head accuracy comparison with perfect bullets. I shot several 5 shot groups from a sandbag rest at 25 yds.

I was amazed that the reject bullets shot almost as good as the good bullets. I was getting between 2" and 2 1/2" groups with the good and the bad.

Has anyone else had the same experience? It really supprised me. Now I'm thinking there is no reason to look over the bullets after a casting session and throw out the poor looking bullets.

[jonk]

I find exactly the same to be true. Now for rifle loads out to several hundred yards, it's another matter. But for 50 yards or less unless we're talking some hideous cavity or something you're not going to do that much worse with the rejects.

[softpoint]

I've discovered long ago that being too picky (especially with handgun bullets ) is not worth the effort. I could never prove to myself that mildly defective bullets shot any different from the "perfect" ones, either. In fact, one day I think I will cast some that are defective to varying degrees ( cold casts, even mold not quite full,no sprue with sinkholes, etc) and shoot them to see at what point the difference really becomes noticeable. Would have to use several different handguns to get a real comparison. :castmine:

[fredj338]

I've found holes in the base or badly formed bases shoot poorly, often throwing flyers. Nose deformations have no affect.

[1Shirt]

Guess I might agree with handgun blts and relatively short ranges. However in my experiance the proof is in the puddin and with rifle loads, TAIN'T THE SAME!
My testing shows that my rifles at least want the best cast that I can possibly turn out. That inclused weight consistancy.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Dan Cash]

Dr. Mann revisited.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Yep that's the score.
I recon you could come up with a formula for revolutions x wieght imperfections x volumn iregularities and see that at short range the "wobble" factor just will not come into play to badly. Hand grip irregularities, muscle flex, and flintch far more influence accuracy than minor boolit inperfections.
But lock that weapon into a repeatable holding device and things would look different. There have been numerous documented tests. But again 1/2 inch at 25 yards is not that much. Also the tests have shown that the Irregular boolit wobbles does not get worse in a straight line factor BUT as distance increases the off course wobble grows mathematicly so that 1/2 deviance at 25 yards becomes not 1 inch at 50 yards but can be 4 or more times worse.
I use imperfect boolits (nose, or grooves) for shooting up close... BUT the perfect boolits are segregated into containers for serious accuracy needs.
RIFLE... new world ! There just is no room for imperfections. Visual and weight need to be RIGHT. Especially with the price of primers and powder.
Mike ... now in Illinois

[softpoint]

Rifle bullets DO need to be as perfect as one can make them, and the smaller the bore and lighter the boolit, the more difference it will make. I am sure the rate of twist can have something to do with how much a minor defect could have on a rifle boolit, in a PERFECT world, a smoothbore would shoot as well as a rifled bore?:-D

[Shiloh]

Rifle bullets DO need to be as perfect as one can make them, and the smaller the bore and lighter the boolit, the more difference it will make. I am sure the rate of twist can have something to do with how much a minor defect could have on a rifle boolit, in a PERFECT world, a smoothbore would shoot as well as a rifled bore?:-D

Ditto this.

Pistol boolits are a different story. I got tired of culling the imperfect boolits. Geez I scrapped a lot of boolits. I tried them, and unless they are really flawed, they shoot fine.

Shiloh

[runfiverun]

i sat and drilled the noses of about 300 45 colt boolits with different sized holes and about every angle imaginable [not on purpose mind you]
shot these through two different leveractions and couldn't produce a group much over 1-1/2"s at 50 yds.
at 30 yds i could shoot the top off a soda bottle.
at 100 yds 5"+ groups,couldn't hold a 16x16 target at 200.
i can normally [if i hold my tongue just right] get a 2-2-1/2" group at 100 yds and 1-1/2" at 50 with regular old ones.
these were/are 10 shot groups.
btw i am incapable of producing a bad boolit. :razz:

[Trey45]

I'm in the habit of scrutinizing every boolit I cast, and reject the ones I'm not happy with. I may have been over critical, after reading this I'm sure I culled boolits that would have shot just fine. I may be a bit more lax in my inspections now. Shot pistols today, and will again tomorrow. I'll load up some culled boolits and try this for myself :)

[geargnasher]

I have the same experience as most of you, some of my rifles will keyhole at 50 yds if the nose deforms on chambering, while my worst "maybe it'll feed, maybe it won't" defective nose boolit shoots fine to 25 yds in a pistol. Only defects I worry about are deformed bases (loaded up a small run of defective based boolits in a 38spl load one time just to see, and my bore went instantly to lead city after 5 shots with an otherwise non-leading load).

Gear

[sundog]

Dan Cash, ah..., Dr Mann.

Sailman, who apparently has not post for a while, did some very extensive test of what he aptly dubbed, 'prunes', at our club, at 100 yards, over an extended period. He shot a lot of many shot groups. I think he is in to statistics stuff and shoots like 27 round groups or something like that. Not like the rest of us normal folks who shoot a single 3-round group in the .5s and brag about it for several years.... I think a lot of his testing was with 03/03A3 and SMLEs. The short of it is that other than an odd flyer, the prunes and the good'uns shot the same.

Gee, I have not seen Sailman for a spell. Gonna have to check on him.

[Jumping Frog]

Handloader Mag did an article on this topic a little while ago. He mutilated various rifle bullets and compared groups. They were surprising insensitive except for the case where he loaded some rifle bullets backwards. They were about 3" off.

I think it was a Ventorino article where he said he no longer worries about nose wrinkles in pistol bullets, but still wants nice clean bases.

If the base is filled out and flat, I'll use the bullet and not worry too much about the nose.

[David Caldwell]

Nice read: http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_3-5_DamagedBullets.htm

[303Guy]

Now that is interesting! Thanks, David Caldwell.

I have a three shot group I like to show arround.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

I know it is not definitive but it does give me hope! (Especially considering that I was shaking by that amount!):roll:

[Bret4207]

I've never seen a long term test that showed imperfect boolits shooting as well as goodun's. It seems they always have this caveat or that or you find out they were shooing at 1200 fps at 50 yards. If you want to try it, do it this way- take your favorite warm load in a rifle or handgun. Load up 100 "goodun's" and 100 "prunes". Then go out to 50 yards with the hand gun and 100 with the rifle and TRY to shoot the best you can. Those flyers will drive you NUTZ!!!

If I want to pop rocks at the sand pit with the kids it's one thing. If I'm taking head shots on squirrels with a 32-20 rifle I want the best I can get. So called "combat shoots" at 3-7 yards it probably doesn't make a difference. Real life cop work where you're trying desperately to pop a deer/bad guy in the head at 43 yards in the dark, foggy night... I want the best I can get.

I'm just anal enough to where I can't take a prune and put it in the "keeper" box. I can't waste my primers and powder on the ones with crooked GC's either. I can't see for crap anymore and I need every advantage I can get! In the end we each have to establish our own base line and work from there. Do what makes you happy.

[Rodfac]

Like Bret, I too have a hard time not culling the prunes. With pimers running .03 each and GC's about the same, it's getting downright expensive to shoot 'crap' boolits. That said, at 25 yds, it's hard to see the difference with a revolver. And who knows when your buddy is gonna say, "how 'bout we shoot for pink slips, your M-24-3 against my slicked up Colt 1911?" You're gonna lose that blued steel beauty if your shooting culls. JMHO, Rodfac

[243winxb]

50 yards, machine rest, only way to test.