.22 Boolit Project, Part 2 ??

[Whitespider]

Started the .22 Hornet/.218 Bee project a few days ago by casting some of the Lyman #225438's. Mine is an older single cavity Lyman mold without the vent lines. No problems keeping heat in the mold and fill-out with 50:1 WW/SN was perfect, only one reject out of the 60 or so I cast for initial testing. I elected to first try air cooled alloy before water dropping or adding any of my precious Lino.

Last night I installed the.225 sizer die in my Lyman 450 and broke out a box of Hornady gas checks; HOLY CRAP, those are small aren't they? I need to update my bi-focals. Well, I couldn't get those buggers to snap on with my fingers to save my soul; but that's what the Lyman gas check seater is for, right? It took a bit for me to figure out how it worked (this is my first go-a-round with checks), finally got the first one seated and popped it out for inspection; yep, looked square and proper.

I must'a used a bit too much force seating that check and bumped it up a lot, because when I ran the boolit through the sizer it obliterated the lube grooves! :groner: The next one was a lot better looking. Man, that's slooooow going, getting those little boolits lined up with the nose punch, seating checks, sizing... and my 50-year-old-plus fingers are too damn fat. I quit for the night after only about half of the little pain-in-the-butts were finished.

I have a couple of issues though. My mold must be a tad egg-shaped because one side of the boolit always comes out with the lube grooves about half closed, good thing I'm not sizing to .224 or .223. The other issue is that the nose punch won't drive the boolit deep enough into the RCBS die to lube the top groove. Has anyone tried drilling lube holes in H&I dies?

[Bret4207]

You won't drill the sizer without annealing it or a special drill, they're hardened. You'd be better off seating your top punch out a bit further. And the reason you're getting squished grooves on one side might be the top punch too. This is going to sound nuts, but what you might do is try and find an object you can load behind the TP to keep it further down in the recess and don;t tighten the TP screw anymore than you have to. That'll let the boolit guide itself to center more and push it further into the sizer die. I know that isn't a clear description, but a longer TP that's not solid in the hole will let things line up more.

[Whitespider]

Hmmmmm.....
I understand the loose TP theory, so the boolit centers itself better, but...
The shoulder of the TP is contacting the top of the lube die already, it won't go any deeper into the die. Possibly I could remove the shoulder on the TP, or part of it, so it will enter the die further. This gives me another idea, I've got a RN TP for .264 diameter that might be longer, maybe I can modify it too work better?

[Calamity Jake]

One way to make that shoulder dia. smaller if you don't have a lathe is chuck it in a hand drill or drill press then turn the OD down with a good fine file.

[Whitespider]

Bret4207,

Thanks for the tip on leaving the TP loose. Before heading off to work this AM I backed the screw out and used a bit of boolit lube to hold it in the ram, so it would float. Now the bollits come out with an even amount of squish on each side. I also used my pocket knife to scrape off the tiny flange that forms where the mold halves come together. You wouldn’t think that tiny bit of lead would matter, but I get less squishing with it scraped off. Also the checks seat easier, I can seat some with my fingers and can feel them bottom out when I have to use the gas check seater.

[1Shirt]

I have about given up on Lyman sizing dies for 22 sizing and checking, and now use push thru Lee 225 for checking and sizing and then:
1. If I am going to shoot them under 1600 or so, I lube them with LLA, and then run them thru again.
2. If I am going to shoot them above 1600, I will then use the Lyman strictly with Lars Red.
It is extra processing time, but it works for me. I have trouble with the little checks and my old fingers as well.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Larry Gibson]

Another method I use with the small bullets (soft cast larger ones too) to keep from deforming them is to;

Push the GC onto the base of the bullet as far as i can with the fingers.

Then size the bullet nose first into the H die (no lubing on this first step). The nose punch seats the GC. You must also screw the I die (that's the rod part of the sizer) top out far enough so the GC is pushed into the die far enough to just crimp on. No need to use too much pressure on the hand at the stop of the bullet so the bullet does not get 'bumped". This is basically the same as push sizing the bullets through the Lee sizer.

After all the bullets are sized and GCs seated then Lube them in the same H dies using only enough handle pressure to not "bump" the bullets.

Cast bullets thus sized and lube will be concentric and the grooves should not be wiped off one side.

Larry Gibson

[JeffinNZ]

If you think commercial .22 checks are fiddly you oughta try making them. I have been experimenting with a Freechex gas check maker in .22 and I have slender fingers but it is still a labour of love.

[SWIAFB]

I have two molds for 22'S. The Lyman 225415 likes it"s checks anelled, The Lee bator likes them out of the box.SWIAFB

[mainiac]

Started the .22 Hornet/.218 Bee project a few days ago by casting some of the Lyman #225438's. Mine is an older single cavity Lyman mold without the vent lines. No problems keeping heat in the mold and fill-out with 50:1 WW/SN was perfect, only one reject out of the 60 or so I cast for initial testing. I elected to first try air cooled alloy before water dropping or adding any of my precious Lino.

Last night I installed the.225 sizer die in my Lyman 450 and broke out a box of Hornady gas checks; HOLY CRAP, those are small aren't they? I need to update my bi-focals. Well, I couldn't get those buggers to snap on with my fingers to save my soul; but that's what the Lyman gas check seater is for, right? It took a bit for me to figure out how it worked (this is my first go-a-round with checks), finally got the first one seated and popped it out for inspection; yep, looked square and proper.

I must'a used a bit too much force seating that check and bumped it up a lot, because when I ran the boolit through the sizer it obliterated the lube grooves! :groner: The next one was a lot better looking. Man, that's slooooow going, getting those little boolits lined up with the nose punch, seating checks, sizing... and my 50-year-old-plus fingers are too damn fat. I quit for the night after only about half of the little pain-in-the-butts were finished.

I have a couple of issues though. My mold must be a tad egg-shaped because one side of the boolit always comes out with the lube grooves about half closed, good thing I'm not sizing to .224 or .223. The other issue is that the nose punch won't drive the boolit deep enough into the RCBS die to lube the top groove. Has anyone tried drilling lube holes in H&I dies?

I ran into the same problems when i started down the .22 trail. Took my top punch to work with me and had a machinist turn the shoulder part of the punch down to below .225, and now i can drive the boolit in far anuff so all the grooves get lube.

[DLCTEX]

Drilling more holes in a die is a pain. I had one in .244 that I was experiencing the same problem with. As ststed, the die was too hard for drilling, so I heated it cherry red and let it cool. That softened it so that I was able to drill it, which caused a burr on the inside. I used emery cloth wrapped around a drill bit until the I rod pushed through without catching, then heated the die to cherry red again and quenched it in oil. This deposited a layer of carbon (probably should not have used burnt crankcase oil) on all surfaces. This resulted in another session with the emery cloth and drill bit. The end result was a die that lubes all grooves and sized boolits to .245. If I counted my time worth minimum wage I could have bought a new die cheaper, but I had the satisfaction of making it work. DALE

[Bret4207]

Hmmmmm.....
I understand the loose TP theory, so the boolit centers itself better, but...
The shoulder of the TP is contacting the top of the lube die already, it won't go any deeper into the die. Possibly I could remove the shoulder on the TP, or part of it, so it will enter the die further. This gives me another idea, I've got a RN TP for .264 diameter that might be longer, maybe I can modify it too work better?

Crap, forgot about the shoulder. Yeah, get rid of it or make a FN TP to fit. That's what I've done for many of my dies. I think they work pretty good.

[SwedeNelson]

Hay this was what inspired me to make my push through lubber.
Works great.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=43681
A long way around a very small problem.
(tongue in cheek)

Swede Nelson

[mroliver77]

I LOVE my Star sizer and the .22 dies I got for it! I am looking for one of them magnafying glass with a light built in that is mounted on a multi position arm for when I work with itsy bitsy boolits. Nef Hornet loves the 225438 but will not shoot the 225415.
J

[Whitespider]

Thanks for all the input guys, sure gives me some things to try.

I really like Larry's technique of sizing nose first to seat the check with less chance of deforming the boolit.

I'm hoping to get a chance to do a bit of load development with the Hornet this weekend, we'll see what plans the weather and SWMBO have for me.