Why are jacket making dies so expensive?

[recycledelectrons]

I understand the pressures in traditional swaging dies, and the tolerances required, which lead to high prices on heat-treated and precision-ground swaging dies.

HOWEVER, the dies that form .22 jackets from .22LR cases are not that precise. +-.01" would be fine. You just pull the rim out and get it kinda straight. It needs to fit inside a .22 swaging die and it needs to allow a bit of lead wire inside it. The swaging process expands everything to the correct size.

For the die, is there a OTS 20 caliber reloading die that would be available cheap? (Time to check Midway ... nothing under $65 there) I might or might not need to turn it down a little to reduce the length.

Another option is to use a set of interchangeable neck sizing bushings to push the brass through: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=144520

For the punch, A first try would be a shell holder with a screw sticking through the hole. A second try would be turned on a lathe quickly from steel.

I'm sure there's a reason it's not that easy. As a teacher, I get out of school in 2 weeks, and have a CNC mill & lathe available for tinkering.

Andy

[ETG]

I understand the pressures in traditional swaging dies, and the tolerances required, which lead to high prices on heat-treated and precision-ground swaging dies.

HOWEVER, the dies that form .22 jackets from .22LR cases are not that precise. +-.01" would be fine. You just pull the rim out and get it kinda straight. It needs to fit inside a .22 swaging die and it needs to allow a bit of lead wire inside it. The swaging process expands everything to the correct size.

For the die, is there a OTS 20 caliber reloading die that would be available cheap? (Time to check Midway ... nothing under $65 there) I might or might not need to turn it down a little to reduce the length.

Another option is to use a set of interchangeable neck sizing bushings to push the brass through: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=144520

For the punch, A first try would be a shell holder with a screw sticking through the hole. A second try would be turned on a lathe quickly from steel.

I'm sure there's a reason it's not that easy. As a teacher, I get out of school in 2 weeks, and have a CNC mill & lathe available for tinkering.

Andy


What do you consider expensive? I have made two different dies and they work but will sometimes rip the bottom off. I used regular 7/8" threaded rod and drill bushings for the die and tool steel and hardened dowels for the punch/shell holder. I finally ordered a die set from Blackmon. After receiving and examining the die I realize I used too steep a taper. His works very well. So I guess it's up to you. I spent more than the $75 Blackmon charged for all the tooling and materials and ended up buying them anyway. If I were to do it over I would order A-2 (air hardened tool steel) to make the actual die then harden it - way easier then working with those hardened drill bushings. But I didn't have anyone that told me how to make the die. The tool steel, the tapered reamers or burrs, and the reamers you need for the close fit all adds up. If you count your time as nothing (like most of us hobbyist do) and you have access to a nice mill and lath you could make it for less - but you will spend almost as much on tooling and material. But there again - you will have the tooling and excess material for other projects :-)

[sargenv]

I too wonder why the tooling for that costs so much, but at this point I'm still gathering the 22 cal empties to justify buying the tooling to make the jackets and then the bullets. I figure if I can get a 5 gallon bucket of 22 lr casings, that might justify having enough stock to actually get the ball rolling. I'm having all of my friends who are shooting 22 lr in practice save their brass for me, so it might stack up fast... or it might take a while. Then I have to try to justify the cost of the tooling.. If this is a long term thing, it will be amortized over 10-20 years so I can justify the cost. What I'd really like to see, if it is possible, is a tool/die that makes the finished swaged 224 cal bullet have a small boat tail to aid in loading. I very much dislike having to load flat based bullets in the .224 cal ammo.

[ETG]

Yes you can get the boat tails - at an additional cost of course :-(

[sargenv]

I don't mind paying a lil extra for what I want.. ;)

It's already expensive.. what's a few more bucks?

[ETG]

I think it's more like a few hundred more :-(

[shooterg]

Blackmon's BT die with the BT punch for the point form die was $160 on my last list. No advantage to a BT bullet with the .22 cases I can see, as flat base bullets generally shoot better than BT to 200 anyway. Now if you're going with J4 jackets and heavier bullets for 3 to 600 and more, yeah.

[sargenv]

I'm not looking for performance as much as less work to seat them in the case. If I'm going to load a LOT of blasting ammo, I don't want to have to chamfer 2000 - 223 rem case mouths.. If I use a boat tail bullet, I don't have to chamfer. If I were loading say 100 at a time on a single stage, it wouldn't be an issue, but the last time I loaded 223 ammo, I did it on a dillon 650 and used all 8 pounds of powder. Came out to about 2300 rounds give or take.

[recycledelectrons]

I didn't know they were available for $75. I've see Corbin and CH4D charge in the $140 range.

My comparison was to a Lee RGB 2-Die set. It seems like Lee could sell at least as many .22 jacket making dies as they do .38-40 RGB sets.

I'm about sold on a set of CH4D bullet swaging dies. I plan to use an existing bullet mold to cast my cores. I'll have to find a way to make jackets. A $75 die sounds good.

If I'm not totally whacked, I ought to be able to get into this for $230.

Andy

[ETG]

I'm not looking for performance as much as less work to seat them in the case. If I'm going to load a LOT of blasting ammo, I don't want to have to chamfer 2000 - 223 rem case mouths.. If I use a boat tail bullet, I don't have to chamfer. If I were loading say 100 at a time on a single stage, it wouldn't be an issue, but the last time I loaded 223 ammo, I did it on a dillon 650 and used all 8 pounds of powder. Came out to about 2300 rounds give or take.

Get you a giraud case trimmer and you'll never complain again. Trims to length, champhers inside and deburs outside in about 1 second a case. I have different heads for 223, 308, 3006, and 50BMG. Once you get them set there is no adjustment - stick the cartrige in give them half a twist and done :-D

[sargenv]

Ok.. so I'm going to spend an additional $300 while I spend $1000 on a bullet forming die? Um.. if I were loading rifle ammo all the time I might think about it. I already own the Dillon trimmer, and as long as I use boat tail bullets, well, it works fine. Not to mention finding room on my bench for another gadget.. ;)

I know all about the Giraud (and the Gracey too) but at this point, I'd rather pay for what I want rather than find another solution. I'm looking to simplify my loading not find another thing to take up my time. The ammo for 223 is blasting ammo for shooting 3-gun to 200 yards or less. If I can hit a 10" plate @ 200, that's all the accuracy I need. You could say that I need to get a 1050 to speed up swaging the primer pocket of all that 223 mil brass also.. but that's another $1000 or more... for one caliber.. ;)

I do appreciate the input though.. If I find that my solution sucks then I might get out the checkbook and clear a spot on my bench, but for now.. I'd like to stick with what I know. and we're getting slightly off topic.

[MIBULLETS]

I think even Blackmon's BT die has a slight rebate to it, so there may be a slight edge where the bullet turns to the BT, unlike the smooth transition to the BT on purchased bullets. Probably won't make a difference though.