June Handloader Magazine

[leadman]

In the June Handloader magazine there is an article by John Haviland on cast bullets. He tried casting softnose with a roundball but didn't care for it. What I found interesting was he used aluminum foil in the mold to creat a split nose. I might have to try this.
He also make a reference to this website in his article.

[supertodd]

looked very interesting and easier then drilling a hole

[roadie]

Well, leadman, you're about a day late and a penny short.
That article has been rather thoroughly studied and trashed already. Apparently the KC's on this site take extreme exception to the writers view of this method of producing soft-nose boolits.
In particular, his apparent apprehension concerning putting a mold in molten lead in order to fuse the two part boolit, his fear being that the mold could warp.

Ridiculous. Ludicrous. Just a downright bad thing to say. Or so the KC's here think.

I think Bruce B's method is rather good, Ive done it that way myself over the years with no problems, never had a mold warp but I won't claim it could'nt happen. I think the reaction by some here was extreme. Although one member did extend an olive branch as it were by inviting Mr. Haviland to participate in a discussion here which I thought was very good, however the posts immediatley following the invitation, showed Mr. Haviland exactly what he could expect should he accept.

Sometime, I have to wonder how these KC's here ever have time to cast boolits or blast them off, given the time they seem to spend pounding the keyboard expressing their outrageous indignation.

Have a good one,
roadie

[AnthonyB]

Roadie, what is a KC? Is that Knowledgeable Caster?
Tony

[EDK]

Roadie, what is a KC? Is that Knowledgeable Caster?
Tony

Probably KEYBOARD COMMANDO.

[targetshootr]

What I found innersting is that a soft lead ball would cause his boolits to be off balance. He must notta been able to center them in the mold.

[Leadforbrains]

Oh well

[MT Gianni]

An paragraph in the American Rifleman, Sept of 1967 I believe, told of using the end paper off of checks to do the same. He warned not to shoot with anyone off to the side as one out of every 10 shots the nose came apart before traveling 10 feet. That sort of put me off the practice. I have no idea what I did with the issue but it was red with an article on the air gun used by the Lewis and Clark expedition.

[runfiverun]

most of the kc's [whatever that is] are retired and have been casting for 30+ years.
they got all day everyday, some work work in the industry. there are several commercial and former commercial casters.
guy's who hunt only with cast.
guy's that shoot benchrest matches with cast.
blasters,plinkers,engineers,and experimenters.
by the way haviland was completely wrong in the way he explained the process, both the hot lead and bruces process.
blasting no. ask lyman the guy's on here call it like it is.

[beagle]

Couple of articles in Handloader this month that kind of dissapointed me. I expect more of these guys than what was in the magazine in several instances. Hell, we got a lot more talent right here on this site than Handloader does and we make do with a hell of a lot less assets in our experiments and development work and fund them ourselves.

That's why this is the "cutting edge" site on cast boolits./beagle

[Heavy lead]

I have all but given up on all of the gun rags. I still get the Wolf publications, but I agree Havilands article was a disappointment. Too bad.

[NSP64]

unfortunatly my local store that used to carry Handloader, doesn't anymore. I was thinking of subscribing but, I usually looked at the articles to see if I liked them before buying it.

[leadman]

Looks like I need to talk with my Postman. Just got my issue of Handloader yesterday!

I too believe a better job could have been done with Bruces' softnose process, but it could be a need to get the article over with and move on to the next. Unfortunately this is the way with many business operation now. His interest could have been diverted by the split nose bullets.

It would be good if he could have the procedure that Bruce developed and follow it to the letter and have it work for him. I think he would be pleased with the results.

Oh, I haven't cast a boolit or fired a shot in several weeks, but I have produced about 500 pounds of shot out of my Littleton! This is what retirement will allow you to do.

Sounds like I need to write a letter to a magazine next. See how we get diverted!

[Recluse]

Sometime, I have to wonder how these KC's here ever have time to cast boolits or blast them off, given the time they seem to spend pounding the keyboard expressing their outrageous indignation.

Have a good one,
roadie

"Roadie," just be careful that none of your moulds warp. ;-) [smilie=1:

:coffee:

[StrawHat]

In the June Handloader magazine there is an article by John Haviland on cast bullets. He tried casting softnose with a roundball but didn't care for it. What I found interesting was he used aluminum foil in the mold to creat a split nose. I might have to try this.
He also make a reference to this website in his article.

Haven't read that article yet but years ago a slip of paper was used in the nose of the bullet to promote expansion. I tried it but went back to hollow points. It was probably too easy to line up the paper and the HP mold made things more enjoyable!

[waksupi]

Roadie, you must not pay attention to what is posted on this board. Most members are beyond the stage where they accept something as gospel, just because it has been printed in a slick magazine. Unlike the pro writers, the members here tackle the myths, and have buried many of them deep underground. When we do testing up to the destructive stage, it is because we want to know the truth, not get a pay check.

[Recluse]

Roadie, what is a KC? Is that Knowledgeable Caster?
Tony

I thought it was Knights of Columbus.

Used to live in Kansas City and everyone called it KC, even "roadies" who freelanced or wrote for various magazines. [smilie=1:

I never knew so many boolit casters were from Kansas City and members of the Knights of Columbus.

What a small world.

:coffee:

P.S. Waksupi is dead-on 100% right.

[waksupi]

I do kind of wonder. With a resource like this, if I were a gun writer, I would kick out some topics of interest. The topics would be discussed and cussed to the nth degree, and when the topic wound down, you would pretty much have all the bases covered, and have some real facts to work with. If said writer was putting out articles on a topic where they had taken advantage of all available knowledge, they would gain a large following, when people knew when they read them, they had absolute true facts.

[runfiverun]

after re-reading the article again he was too busy re-promoting his way to explore the other options.

[1Shirt]

Years back, I screwed around with paper for a nose split on big 45-70 cast. Used strips of onion skin paper about a quarter inch wide. They worked, accuracy did not seem to be effected to any great degree, and at least on wet paper had a more or less satisfactory result. Prefer HP or two alloy!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[JIMinPHX]

I don't have time to read Handloader magazine. There's too much good stuff here on this board that I would rather be reading. :)

[geargnasher]

I don't have time to read Handloader magazine. There's too much good stuff here on this board that I would rather be reading. :)

+1 on that sir!

Not to hijack the thread but simply note that I usually troll around here when I get a wild idea about trying something, usually find someone has already tried, tested, posted results, refined it with input from many others, and perfected it! I don't have to lift a finger except to click the mouse!

Anyone ever write a question to an editor about something in an article and get an answer? Yeah, right.

Gear

[Mallard57]

I quit reading "Shooting Times" years ago because the content lacked any substance, now most of the writers have moved to "Handloader". Needless to say it's not the magazine it used to be.

[dromia]

The inernet is a real threat to paper based magazines and newspapers therefore I see it as editorially unlikely that any would give places like this much creedance or credit.

It would be like turkeys voting for xmas.

I stopped buying the gun comics years ago when they all went up the advertisers bottoms.

How ever this year I took out the internet subscription to the three Wolfe publications, at £15 it didn't seem much of a lay out. From what I've seen so far I don't think I'll renew, what I'm getting isn't worth the bother to log on and download.

I remember waiting with anticipation for Handloader and other gun magazines to arrive, not now.

I'm glad that I'm a bit of a hoarder and kept all those back issues as I still enjoy reading and learning from them.

In those days the writers were more independant in thought and deed and said what they thought and found, just like the members here. Rather than the new breed of writers who say what they think the advertisers and the editor wants to hear.

No doubt there is the odd exception allowed, which I sometimes feel is deliberately put in as a sop to this type of criticism

They are no longer informative specialist magazines just plug a product publications.

Such is life in the corporate age of the 21st Century.

[Bret4207]

Friend Roadie has 2 posts to his credit and neither concerns boolits or casting. In both he takes the membership here to task, we don't see things his way.

Huh. Life is tough all over I hear...

[Mallard57]

Well said Dromia.
Jeff

[hunter64]

Darn it, I wish I had seen this thread earlier last month. I was in the grocery store this afternoon and strolled past the gun mags and I usually just look at Handloader to see if there is anything worth while. I was in a hurry and saw the cast bullet reference so I bought the mag. What a disappointment, there is more info here on this site than one can find in a gun rag. Oh well you live and learn.

[7br]

One of the big problems with round balls is that the commercial ones are coated. If I remember right, it is graphite. They don't melt with crud and once they do, the lead doesn't bond real well

[.38 Special]

IMO the two reasons for reading Handloader were Ross Seyfried and John Barsness. Now that they have both left, I agree with Mallard and his Shooting Times comment.

Of course, I remember when Shooting Times was worth the price, too...

[Mallard57]

IMO the two reasons for reading Handloader were Ross Seyfried and John Barsness. Now that they have both left, I agree with Mallard and his Shooting Times comment.

Of course, I remember when Shooting Times was worth the price, too...

I do too, but it's been a very long time ago.
Jeff

[1Shirt]

I gave up on Shooting Times probably 8-10 years ago, and have subscribed to Rifle and HandLoader every since. However, due to (as someone mentioned recently), due to lack of substance, this will probably be the last year I subscribe. There is just to much info OF SUBSTANCE on the net.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[jack19512]

I have all but given up on all of the gun rags.








+1

Same here. I use to have at least 2 or 3 subscriptions. I have 0 now.

[anachronism]

The inernet is a real threat to paper based magazines and newspapers therefore I see it as editorially unlikely that any would give places like this much creedance or credit.

It would be like turkeys voting for xmas.

That pretty much sums it up. You are supposed to pay THEM for information, and buy what THEY tell you is needed. Otherwise, they don't get their advertising money, which is the only reason magazines exist. They have no mission in life other than to put the advertisers material in front of your nose on a regular basis. They get paid for this. A lot. Did you ever notice that most "articles" read like advertising copy?

"I looked up from my concealment, my Mossy Oak cammoflage clothing had done it's job, my prey hadn't seen me. I picked up my Super-duper Leupold spotting scope & lined up on the trophy jackelope below. I could almost count the fleas on the critter at 1000 yards. Slowly, I raised my Remington "banker grade" rifle & peered through the Huskeemaw scope, all the while appreciating how comfortably the rifles McMillan stock sat in my hands, ready to do it's deadly duty".

"I was comforted, knowing the .300 Ruger Compact magnum chambering in my rifle, custom chambered by Sisk Rifles, would have plenty of power for the task ahead. I checked the wind with my Radio Shack weathermaster, & slowly squeezed the trigger..."

All written at a sixth grade level. C'mon, how many people really talk like this?

[Hipshot]

Roadie after just 6 posts the last one spewing w ho knows what has seem to have "HIT THE ROAD" !!!

Hipshot

[ryan richards]

IMHO as a newbie to this forum, I can say that I have learned more from you great people who have taken the time and made the effort to share your knowledge with aspiring bullet casters like myself than all other sources combined.

[44mag1]

I think these magazines need to quit using the same articles for 3-4 different magazines.

[44man]

What I hate is articles from guys that have hundreds or thousands of collectible military rifles, modern rifles, revolvers, BP guns, autos, single shots and thousands of die sets, 20 lead pots, 2000 molds, 20 loading presses, 10, 8# jugs of every powder made, a few hundred thousand primers of every make, ransom rests, a huge property with a range and everything ever thought of for shooting, then say they are poor.
Then they know how to make every gun they own shoot! :confused: They also have the perfect load for each.
Give me a break! I trust the guy with one gun much more. How many lifetimes does it take to work with just a few guns?
Notice the guy shooting the Cooper .223? I will not dispute that it is a super gun but what ruins all of his work is the full page ad for Cooper right at the end of his articles.
Anachronism says it the very best! :mrgreen:
I do not listen to people with more money then smarts or are being paid off.

[AZ-Stew]

Anyone ever write a question to an editor about something in an article and get an answer? Yeah, right.

Matter of fact, I have. I took Roy Huntington (editor of American Handgunner and Guns) to task a few years ago, complaining about misspellings, typos and other things that should have been caught by the editor or proofreader. We exchanged a couple of e-mails on this issue and, for a while, they cleaned up their act, but are backsliding a bit nowadays.

I spent a half hour to 45 minutes talking to Dave Scoville (editor of Handloader and Rifle) at the NRA convention last month about the change from freelance writers to staff writers. His explanation was that, in his experience, freelancers are "one-trick Johnnies", who know ONE thing intimately, such as "The .308 Winchester", and can write a hundred articles on that subject, but are not interested in pursuing any other topics that may be suggested by the editor. He said it was much easier to deal with staff writers who would take on multiple assignments and always meet deadlines. I can't blame him for that. Business is business and time is money. I didn't ask him specifically about why the magazines have become more commercially oriented, but I suspect that my previous sentence covers it.

I don't accept as gospel what is written in the magazines, but I do learn from them. Occasionally I will see something that causes me to question my current practices. I then review what I've been doing and make changes to find out whether the author of the article knows what he is writing about. If my experimentation verifies what the author wrote, I've learned something new. Otherwise, I return to previous practice or make further changes to find out if anything can be improved. Same thing applies to what is written in this forum.

Regards,

Stew

[Tim357]

AZ-Stew, well said! There's always something to learn, even if it's learning you are doing it right after all.
Tim sends

[Buckshot]

...............I really can't remember which magazine it was in, so my saying that it was about my favorite read might not carry as much weight :-) but it was the "Readers Write" section. Just any ole person could write in about something they'd done, done differently, done better, discovered, re-discovered, was off the wall, & etc. Regardless almost every single one they'd print (usually 3-4) each issue was interesting.

I'm sure the obviously dangerous, illegal, or just simply stupid ones weren't printed. However a LOT of good ideas and "Now why didn't I think of that" type stuff was almost always present and many deserved a full blown article of their own.

Re: Handloader and Rifle magazines. These were 2 of the best out of the herd and even now IMHO still are. However when they changed the mags they very honestly stated that their circulation was falling, and in order to appeal to a wider audience they had to dumb down (NOT those words, but that's what they meant) the content.

What Handloader needs is a SERIES of articles on cast lead. Starting from the very basic basics, up to full blown competition benchrest. Should probably take about a years worth of issues to do it halfway correctly.

.................Buckshot

[Heavy lead]

The internet and sites like this have killed or at least severely damaged all magazines and newspapers. Sites such as cast boolits share information so much faster and so much more content that it has changed US without us really realizing it. I've looked back at some older Handloader and Rifle mags (always my favs) and have come to realize they are simply no better with no more content than the new ones for the most part. We just simply gather information now, for instance why wait once a month or two months when you can start a thread with a question and recieve several dozen answers to your question in the following days. It's all about the speed, the wait, anticipation, and wonder of receiving a magazine is gone, simply because we already have learned (for the most part) the content of an article before we receive it, so rather than learn from it we critic it.

[Bret4207]

...............I really can't remember which magazine it was in, so my saying that it was about my favorite read might not carry as much weight :-) but it was the "Readers Write" section. Just any ole person could write in about something they'd done, done differently, done better, discovered, re-discovered, was off the wall, & etc. Regardless almost every single one they'd print (usually 3-4) each issue was interesting.


American Rifleman.

[Bret4207]

Matter of fact, I have. I took Roy Huntington (editor of American Handgunner and Guns) to task a few years ago, complaining about misspellings, typos and other things that should have been caught by the editor or proofreader. We exchanged a couple of e-mails on this issue and, for a while, they cleaned up their act, but are backsliding a bit nowadays.

I spent a half hour to 45 minutes talking to Dave Scoville (editor of Handloader and Rifle) at the NRA convention last month about the change from freelance writers to staff writers. His explanation was that, in his experience, freelancers are "one-trick Johnnies", who know ONE thing intimately, such as "The .308 Winchester", and can write a hundred articles on that subject, but are not interested in pursuing any other topics that may be suggested by the editor. He said it was much easier to deal with staff writers who would take on multiple assignments and always meet deadlines. I can't blame him for that. Business is business and time is money. I didn't ask him specifically about why the magazines have become more commercially oriented, but I suspect that my previous sentence covers it.

I don't accept as gospel what is written in the magazines, but I do learn from them. Occasionally I will see something that causes me to question my current practices. I then review what I've been doing and make changes to find out whether the author of the article knows what he is writing about. If my experimentation verifies what the author wrote, I've learned something new. Otherwise, I return to previous practice or make further changes to find out if anything can be improved. Same thing applies to what is written in this forum.

Regards,

Stew

I would have to disagree with Scoville. The older Handloaders with it's feelancers like Mike Venturino, Ross Seyfreid, Jim Carmichael, Rick Jamison, etc and it's staff writers like Ken Waters, George Nonte, and Al miller made a much better mag. I imagine it's his justification for making things easier for HIM.