Jacket Making

[ETG]

Just made a bunch of jackets from 22LR cases. Still waiting for the other dies from Larry Blackmon (will probably be a while). My question is, is there any need for lube on the jackets once you derim them? Not sure if core seating needs lube or not. If I don't need it I would like to clean them off - I used lanolin and castrol. What is best to get this off - lacqure thinner, acetone, boiling in soapy water????? Any info appreciated. Thanks

[Russel Nash]

DISCLAIMER: I have not swaged one single bullet in my life, so...

but what I do like for general cleaning and/or degreasing is automotive brake cleaner. It cames in a spray can, usually with one of those skinny red straws taped to the rattle can. At most, it is like 2 bucks a can.

Just wear safety glasses/goggles when you go to spray stuff with it. The liquid comes shooting out with some authority and goes splashing everywhere.

[deltaenterprizes]

Use lube in all operations,it helps with ejection. If you have a rotary tumbler, tumble them like the big manufacturers do!

[ETG]

I thought when seating the core you didn't want any lube inside. I lubed both the outside of the case and the punch when derimming.

[shooterg]

I just lube the outside of the cases(as clean as I can get 'em). Still wipe a little primer residue off the bunch every few swings of the handle. I clean 'em again at this point and relube outside before seating the clean cores. Very little lube is used - I've only put a dent in my first container after completing 3,000 bullets. YMMV !

[MIBULLETS]

ETG,

You definitely do not want lube inside the jacket when core seating. The jacket may not grab the core as well when seated if you leave lube inside. I put mine in acetone after derimming, then relube before core seating.

Dan

[ETG]

Thanks.
From all I have read it seemed like you wanted everything clean inside when seating the core. I'll soak them in acetone and then just lightly lube the outside for seating and point fprming.

[deltaenterprizes]

I assumed you knew better than to put lube inside the jacket, never assume!

Benchrest shooters wash the cores in dish detergent to get the cores to bond with the jacket.

[ETG]

Larry Blackmon told me to lube the punch when derimming which would obviously get lube inside the jacket. I know you want a bond between the core and jacket - that is why I ask if there was any need for lube in future processes and what is best to remove lanolin. I didn't know if acetone, lacqure thinner or boiling with dish detergent was beast to remove the lube from the inside.

[JohnM]

Benchrest shooters wash the cores in dish detergent to get the cores to bond with the jacket.

I had a client that has a 6mm with a 1:6.5 twist barrel; his bullets were exploding 50 to 75yds downrange.
I fix this problem by first cleaning the core, then tumbling the cores in flux before swaging. To finish off, I baked the bullets to fuse the core to the jacket. This solved the problem…..

Guess you could say it's my verison of bonding...

John

[ETG]

Did you bake above the melting temp of lead or around 500????? Did you bake before or after you swaged the core, before or after tip forming? - it sounds like that was the last step.

[Lead pot]

The problem with rim fire jackets is you cant push them to fast.
3000 fps with a 1/14 twist is just about the limit with thin walled RF jackets.
When you put them through a faster twist you need to slow them down or core bond them with a harder alloy.
Even the Honady SX .224 diameter that have a thicker jacket when pushed over 3200 fps will vaporize inside 50 yards when shot out of a rifle with a 1/14 twist.
I have watched a smoke trail many times with bullets shot with my .222.

[shooterg]

I need to get a chronograph ! I'm shooting most of my rimfire jacketed 56 gr. .224's out of a 1 in 9 AR with 25 grains of RE15 behind 'em - so far all have made it to the 200 yard line in one piece. Doubt I'm anywhere close to 3000 fps and they group fine. Still, I need an excuse to hint to the bride that I REALLY NEED a chrony ...

[ETG]

Guess the 1:9 is really gonna be a problem!!! About is the max speed for a 1:9 - 2700?????

[ETG]

LOL - didn't refresh the page before posting - sounds like the AR and HK are doable as long as you keep them less than mach3.

[Jim_Fleming]

you also made a pretty darned good hunting bullet!

What company made the old "Hot Core" bullets... that were nothing more than cores soldered onto/into the jackets...?

I've made bullets from .22RF cases and ran them thru an AR-15, and didn't have trouble with the slugs spinning apart down range..

ETG: if you can possibly do it, run the CLEANED, i.e. degreased jackets thru a tumbler of some kind. It'll make your brass jacketed pills look great! (at least better if not great...

Jim



I had a client that has a 6mm with a 1:6.5 twist barrel; his bullets were exploding 50 to 75yds downrange.
I fix this problem by first cleaning the core, then tumbling the cores in flux before swaging. To finish off, I baked the bullets to fuse the core to the jacket. This solved the problem…..

Guess you could say it's my verison of bonding...

John

[454PB]

I guess I've been lucky too. I fire my Corbin home swaged .22's at a chronographed 3500 fps and get 3/4" groups from my 22/250.

I don't lube the punch when forming jackets, but I do wipe it clean every 15 or 20 strokes. I also don't clean the formed jackets before seating the cores.

[ETG]

Thanks,
I'll run them through my thumblers before I load them :-)

Hummm, so 3500fps out of a 22-250. Any idea what the twist rate is? I have a 22-250 BDL varminter I'd love to start shooting - been in the safe for over 30 years and never a round through it.

[MIBULLETS]

I have also shot them up to 3500 fps out of a 22-250 with a 1 in 12' twist. I regularly shoot them out of a 223 with a 1 in 9" twist. I have not had any come apart. I think there are a lot of factors that come into play here, velocity, twist rate, and the one I believe is most important is how smooth the bore of the barrel is.

Even though I can shoot them faster I normally shoot them around 3000 - 3200 fps. Accuracy is noticeably better in that range in my 223.

Dan

[Maximilian225]

I thought when seating the core you didn't want any lube inside. I lubed both the outside of the case and the punch when derimming.

David Corbin's book recommends boiling the cases in water and detergent followed by a second boil in plain water. Than baking in a 600 oven for 20 minutes to dry and anneal before drawing. No lube inside the case only the outside.

-Max

[ETG]

I did the boil with vinegar and salt and then water and baked to dry and anneal. If I didn't lube the punch the case would pull back through the die. I'm not sure if the punch pushes it all the way out of the die or not. I have it set down in the press to where it only occasionally pulls the case back - but a couple pumps on the handle and it comes off. It is down far enough that it is hard to press the case through - not getting to use the leverage at the bottom of the stroke.

[JohnM]

Did you bake above the melting temp of lead or around 500????? Did you bake before or after you swaged the core, before or after tip forming? - it sounds like that was the last step.

I go though the normal swaging process, with the exception of tumbling the cores to lightly coat them with flux. After swaging I then wash them and I put them in a oven for 15 minutes on high. I then let them stand till I can pick them up. I polish them, then coat with hBN and pack ready to be sent out.
The jackets are J4 with 99% pure lead cores. They weigh 108grs, which I believe a 1:6.5 is way too fast, but then it’s not my rifle.

22 rimfire jackets I don’t recommend pushing them past 2850 using a 1:12 twist. I’ve only just started playing with these, but quite happy so far. They seem to get around .5MOH on most days @100yds if I’ve got my act together….. We’ve just started trying a 1:9 with mixed results. Overall I’m quite happy with these 53gr bullets, bet the rabbits won’t be lol

My pet load is 23grs Varget


John

[n.h.schmidt]

I have the Corbin setup. For me it came down to lightly lubeing the jacket makeing punch or the jacket would stick on the punch. The best way to use the leverage of the press was as follows. The de-rimming die was set in the press so as to just iron the case rim out at the top of the stroke . When the punch was pulled down the case stays in the re-rimming die. The next case to be de-rimmed then pushed the previous case the rest of the way thorugh as it was going through the die. I would always clean the jackets after this step to remove the lube and remove more of the leftover priming grit. I have only shot my bullets out of 223 chambered guns . The fastest twist rate is with a 1-10 Mini 14. I never did reach the speed needed to have the jacket give out.
I did reach jacket limits with bullets made with expanded 22mag rimfire cases made for 6.5mm. They worked up to about 2100fps in my 6.5 x 55 m96. After that the bullets went all over the place and had one break in two. I seen the two halfs on my target. That thin brass just couldn't take it.
n.h.schmidt