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View Full Version : BruceB's Cast Softpoints (as of MAY 2009)



BruceB
05-07-2009, 09:43 AM
A lot of water's gone under the bridge, and a lot of new faces have arrived here. Hence, the mention of John Haviland's reference to the cast softpoint spurs me to review the whole process.

Also, my methodology has changed over the length of the experiment.

First, I must say that I've owned well-over 100 moulds, and have NEVER warped one or even seen a warped one among the dozens of used moulds which have come into my hands. It is NOT a problem.

Now then:

I embarked on my search for a good cast softpoint with one objective: TOTALLY RELIABLE PERFORMANCE ON GAME. I don't care about ease of production, because a mere dozen or so bullets will supply almost anyone's actual HUNTING needs for several years. I say this because the regular, non-softpoint bullets cast in the same mould can be used for practice and zeroing. Therefore, I'm willing to expend considerable effort to obtain predictable and consistent results.

I consider the Nosler Partition to be my benchmark and objective for cast-softpoint performance, meaning that a correctly-functioning cast softpoint should have 2/3 of its original weight intact after recovery from a carcass. This is the reason for my belief that the softnose portion should weigh 25 to 30 percent of the total bullet weight. There are bullets now on the market that retain more weight than do the Partitions, but the Noslers have worked exceedingly well for me on scores of big-game animals. Partition performance is VERY good performance, indeed, with their typical and reliable 2/3 weight retention.

Due to my commitment to absolute certainty, I was not interested in altering the hardness of already-cast bullets. Pure lead is an absolute and known quantity, and pure lead is what I want in my softpoints...PERIOD.

Reliability also means structural integrity. Many folks have made two-alloy softpoints in the past, and mostly report good results. However, photos of their bullets clearly show a flawed joining line of the two different metals. This is an invitation to separation, in my estimation, and even if it doesn't occur, the possibility is unacceptable for my purposes.

How do I make them?

1. Melt the pure-lead in the mould by heating the mould on top of the melt in the pot. Leave the sprue plate "open" so the melting can be observed. I have discovered that using LEAD split-shot of various sizes to make-up the desired softpoint weight is very simple, accurate and inexpensive. I have some "Water Gremlin" shot of various sizes, and these ones weigh 6, 14, and 29 grains. Other sizes are available.

2. Allow the softpoint to harden!!!!! You may even want to cast a bunch of softpoints and set them aside.

3. Place a cool softpoint in the mould and fill the mould with the harder base material, leaving a big sprue on the plate. If you were to look at the bullet now, it would be pretty ugly. No matter.

4. Float the mould on top of the melt until the sprue melts on top of the sprue plate. It'll take a while, and the pot should be at its maximum setting. CAREFULLY move the mould to a dish with the wet-cloth roll in it, and cool the mould until the sprue hardens again....and a little longer won't hurt. This might take as long as a minute, because things are HOT! Avoid jiggling as much as possible, because the cavity contents are liquid and we want to avoid disturbing the relationship between the hardnesses.

That's it! The new cast softpoint can be sized normally with a well-fitting nose punch, and the new bullet can even be oven heat-treated, because pure lead is not affected by heating and quenching.

Most importantly, THERE IS NO JOINT between the hardnesses. The bullet is a seamless flawless structure, with KNOWN hardnesses at each end.

Troublesome to do? Maybe for some, but not for my purposes of seeking best-possible results. I have yet to fire one of these into flesh, but Bullshop killed a moose with one and got spectacular results. He used a higher proportion of bullet weight in pure lead, almost 50% if I recall correctly, and opined that a smaller percentage of pure lead would be even better.

John H, like MANY readers, misses one of the most-important points: LET THE SOFTPOINT COOL, and pour the base metal on top of the hardened softpoint. This avoids most of the risk of mixing the two metals which exists if both are molten. Melting the two together AFTER the base metal has been added ensures that they are perfectly fused in the locations where we want them.

I hope this clarifies the procedure for anyone wanting to try it.

MT Gianni
05-08-2009, 10:57 AM
Great points Bruce. I made some with 30 cal swaged round balls weighing 60 grains. Cool down time is long but we are not after production here just results. Gianni

danski26
05-08-2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks for the update Bruce!

Gray Fox
05-08-2009, 12:21 PM
Bruce:

This clarified a couple points for me, but a couple questions: What calibers are you casting and at what velocities are you shooting them? Do you think this bullet would be a good candidate for paper patching? Thanks, GF

freedom475
05-08-2009, 01:28 PM
here is a 475 400gr. SP I recovered from a mule deer... Thanks Bruce worked great. The boolit hit in the shoulder quartering away at about 80 yrds and the boolit was recovered in the heavy bone of the neck.

9.3X62AL
05-08-2009, 01:49 PM
GREAT summary for those who haven't reviewed the process previously. It seemed that Mr. Havilland's overview skipped a step or two, so Bruce coming on and clarifying the procedure was a fine idea.

MANY THANKS to 475 and Bullshop for their commentaries on terminal performance. Like Bruce, I have yet to launch cast softpoints at game animals (jackrabbits don't count, ANY 9.3mm casting will flatten them right promptly), so real-world work is good to learn about. I can confirm that in 9.3mm/270 grain flatpoint and 45-70/405 grain Lee loadings, there is ZERO difference in accuracy or dispersion on target at 50, 100, and 200 yards between the softpoint castings and boolits poured in homogenous alloy.

For my purposes, the softpointing process eliminates the need to paper-patch. A homogenous pure lead boolit (the net effect of paper-patching in the hunting context) seems to be at least as effective historically as any controlled-expansion softpoint. To paraphrase Ammohead, "Seen many bison lately?" I don't see any reason that a reloader COULDN'T P/P a softpoint--but you're talking a VERY time-consuming and labor-intensive process for little or no gain (my opinion).

Firebricker
05-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Good info Bruce thanks !!

Hardcast416taylor
05-08-2009, 03:33 PM
Thanks Bruce for a different manner of making softpoints. I always made mine the hard way with 2 pots of lead and a small cartridge case for a dipper of the soft lead. Now I`ve got to try making some of these for my .45/70 and .416. Robert

KTN
05-08-2009, 03:46 PM
BruceB softpoint casting method just simply works.
Here are my first 11 softpoints in casting order, from left to right. First 3 are uglu but after those, it just worked. Boolits nose is pure lead to the crimp groove, rest is 1 lino/4 WW and water dropped. I used rubberband on handles to hold mold closed while floating on melt.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o277/kainiin/IMG_2074.jpg


Kaj

cast-n-blast
05-08-2009, 05:16 PM
Bruce, I routinely heat my molds by putting them in the melted lead of the casting furnace for a few minutes without ever warping a single mold. Like you, I have a varied collection of molds too many to count, and never had a problem. Iron, brass, aluminum, doesn't matter.

A mold that is used by a fast caster will eventually come up to temperature of the alloy, as one that is set in the alloy itself. What's the difference ? I would never risk warping my molds if I thought setting them in the alloy itself were harmfull.

Just my 2 cents, Jeff

Marlin Junky
05-08-2009, 06:54 PM
So what advantage does this method have over hollow pointed designs intended for rifle velocities that are cast of 50/50 alloy (clip-ons and soft lead) and heat treated to BHN 29-30?

For the record, I have a brass mold that warped after a few hundred castings by simply using 800F alloy (which was probably due more to the manufacturing process but nevertheless, it happened).

MJ

GLynn41
05-08-2009, 07:35 PM
thanks for all the info -- I have made these since the 80s but mine do not look at good as yours-- but they expand very well

MT Gianni
05-09-2009, 12:38 AM
So what advantage does this method have over hollow pointed designs intended for rifle velocities that are cast of 50/50 alloy (clip-ons and soft lead) and heat treated to BHN 29-30?

For the record, I have a brass mold that warped after a few hundred castings by simply using 800F alloy (which was probably due more to the manufacturing process but nevertheless, it happened).

MJ

MJ, I believe that a soft point is less inclined to shear as a hp will do.

leadman
05-09-2009, 11:23 PM
I have used Bruce's method and after a few trials was able to make good looking boolits. Maybe I send one thru an elk this year.
Looking at the pictures in Handloader it appears the round ball in the cavity is oxidized. I either use a fresh cast or use acid flux for soldering with a brush to clean the crud off. Seems to make a difference.
I may cast some of the split nose like Johns' just to try them.

runfiverun
05-09-2009, 11:59 PM
you need to help a hollow point to get consistant opening.
by either scribing it.or plugging it.
you might also get shorn petals.
the smush a plain lead nose gives you is more consistant, and the weight retention is much higher.

old wanderer
05-02-2011, 10:28 PM
Well this article is extreemly timely for me. I just purchased 50# of pure lead and 140# of some pretty hard lyno.

I have a boolit mold comming from Sweede, for my 300 Blackout. This will be 247 Gr 30 cal for sub-sonic. ( NOE 311 247Gr. FN Whisper ) Some of felt for bext expansion the front should be a soft material.

With this process I can see clearly how to cast exactly what I envision. The only negative, is when casting and rejecting some of the early cast, you cannot throw the combined metals back into the pot, but they can be saved and mixed with other projects that are not so critical. For myself I think I will make a dipper that will give me the exact amount needed for the tip cast, then make up a bunch.

All the normal practice/plinking can be done without the soft nose.

Thanks for preserving it in the archives.

Hank M
05-04-2011, 11:53 AM
Why not use 55gr .223 cast lead boolits for the nose,after melting of course?

BruceB
05-04-2011, 12:39 PM
There are many ways of creating the material for the pure-lead component. Casting smaller "donor" bullets of pure lead is one way; another is using split-shot sinkers; yet another would be measured lengths of pure-lead wire.

For my part, I have some un-used (new) stick-on wheelweights on hand. Stick-on weights are generally considered to be pure lead for our purposes. Some of these are in the 1/4-ounce size, meaning about 110 grains each. A pair of good "cable-cutting" pliers cuts these like butter. The pliers have curved cutting edges and are very sharp. They function more like scissors than pliers.

I'm about to cast some NOE 316299s as softpoints for an up-coming Alberta excursion. I want the pure-lead component to weigh around 70 grains out of the total weight, or roughly 30%. In trials, I can easily cut the wheelweights to the required weight, using my scale to ensure that the actual weight of each chunk is close to the desired figure.

Pure-lead bullets will give very consistent weights for the softpoint. So will split shot. My cut-down WW will be less so, but absolute uniformity is not all that critical....a few grains plus-or-minus won't affect much of anything.

My NOE mould is a four-cavity model, so this will be an interesting test in casting four softpoints at once. I'll let y'all know how the multiple-cavity process works.

nanuk
05-05-2011, 12:10 AM
:popcorn:


What I am thinking is two casting sessions

first one with pure Pb and a measured dipper to cast the noses

then the second one to cast the duplex load

dntfxr
05-05-2011, 02:14 AM
This seems like a great way to make hunting boolits. I assume it works with 2000+fps rifle loads too?

Dthunter
01-17-2012, 12:35 PM
There are many ways of creating the material for the pure-lead component. Casting smaller "donor" bullets of pure lead is one way; another is using split-shot sinkers; yet another would be measured lengths of pure-lead wire.

For my part, I have some un-used (new) stick-on wheelweights on hand. Stick-on weights are generally considered to be pure lead for our purposes. Some of these are in the 1/4-ounce size, meaning about 110 grains each. A pair of good "cable-cutting" pliers cuts these like butter. The pliers have curved cutting edges and are very sharp. They function more like scissors than pliers.

I'm about to cast some NOE 316299s as softpoints for an up-coming Alberta excursion. I want the pure-lead component to weigh around 70 grains out of the total weight, or roughly 30%. In trials, I can easily cut the wheelweights to the required weight, using my scale to ensure that the actual weight of each chunk is close to the desired figure.

Pure-lead bullets will give very consistent weights for the softpoint. So will split shot. My cut-down WW will be less so, but absolute uniformity is not all that critical....a few grains plus-or-minus won't affect much of anything.

My NOE mould is a four-cavity model, so this will be an interesting test in casting four softpoints at once. I'll let y'all know how the multiple-cavity process works.

How did your Alberta excursion go?
Where abouts were you hunting?
I am living in Alberta.
It's Jan16/2012 and its -39 degrees Farenhiet! Ouch!
First real cold of the year.

Dthunter
01-17-2012, 12:47 PM
I have an idea for some of you guys.

If you want to be able tune the weight of the soft point "exactly".

1.)Pour all your 'donor bullets you want.
Or get your lead fishing weights/split shot.

2.) get your self a wire brush, and a fine file.

3.) put the file flat on a bench. And prepare your scale to weigh.

4.) weigh each bullet/split shot, and file off the required amount to make them as uniform you like.
5.) after filing each donor item (bullet or split shot), use the wire brush to clean the file to prevent clogging, and difficult cutting.

This method is as accurate as you want.

Hope you guys can use this simple/useful approach.

richhodg66
01-17-2012, 10:06 PM
I've been contemplating doing this with my .30-06 and the Ideal 311284. Truthfully, of all the deer I've shot, I can only think of one or two that were at 100 yards, most have been much closer. That bullet shoots very well in my rifle with the Lyman recommended most accurate load, I thnk it's about 22 grains of SR4759 giving about 1700-1800 FPS. If I could speed that up a little, it would be pushing more energy than factory .30-30 loads and with a bullet that heavy would carry more of it downrange.

I have a 32 RB mold, I'm guessing that would make balls about the right weight range for the soft nose of a 220 grain bullet, is that right? Would a 1/8th ounce split shot be about the same saving me the trouble of casting them?

MT Gianni
01-18-2012, 10:43 AM
I bought some 32 rb for less than $5 @ 100 a while back. They work great in a 30 for this project.