Question for the H110 users

[DragoonDrake]

Hey guys

I had heard that you could use H110 to get stouter 45Colt loads. I tried 16grs under a Lee 255-RF and had horribly inconsistent ignition. These were crimped at the groove and shot out of a ruger. They sounded like pop-caps going off. Did I down load these without realizing it? I found the load in the Speer Manual and start was 17grs with a 250gr condom bullet, to be used in Ruger and T/C only.
Primers were CCI Large Pistol; I have used the same lot before, and even split this 100 between two different loads (the second load worked fine).

So guys were did I go wrong?
Thanks in advance,
Adam

[Snyd]

Check Hodgdon load data. Min load for H110 for a 260gr bullet is 23.5gr. This is the Ruger only load. It is VERY important to not go below minimum loads with H110. You can get a squib easily, next shot results in KABOOM! Use a magnum primers. I consider the 255ers plinkers and load 8.5 or 9gr Unique with LP primer. I use H110 for 335 and 360gr CP WFNGC. Min load for the 360gr is 18gr. 19gr with a good crimp and LPM averages 1050 fps out of my 4 inch Redhawk. With H110 you need good bullet pull, heavy bullet and tight crimp does it. You are WAY light on the powder for H110. I would not shoot anymore of those loads. You may just stick one in the barrel!

[DragoonDrake]

Thanks Snyd. I did check Hodgdon load data and did not see that load listed. I fired one out of a marlin, 4 out of the vacquero, and 5 out of a derringer. I will pull those apart and make the changes. More powder and tighter crimp. I do not have mag primers, so I will not be able to try that. I do have large rifle primers, but I would like to keep those for the rifles.

Thanks again
Adam

[ebner glocken]

With a 255 I have never shot anything under 25 grains of ww296 which is darn near the exact same powder. I have used in excess of 28 grains but would not recommend it. I'll have to agree with Snyd that you are dangerously below the minimum. BTW all my .45 LC shooting is done in rugers and would not recommend any of these loads be shot in anything weaker.

Ebner

[44man]

Thanks Snyd. I did check Hodgdon load data and did not see that load listed. I fired one out of a marlin, 4 out of the vacquero, and 5 out of a derringer. I will pull those apart and make the changes. More powder and tighter crimp. I do not have mag primers, so I will not be able to try that. I do have large rifle primers, but I would like to keep those for the rifles.

Thanks again
Adam
I have to ask, is that an old Vaquero or one of the new ones? I would not shoot heavy loads from the new ones.
Everyone is correct about more powder but do not use rifle primers in either gun. It is dangerous.
You are just fine with regular LP primers and is all I use.
Now you are mistaking a harder boolit pull with a tighter crimp. You want tight case tension on the boolit, NOT a tighter crimp. Just use a good firm crimp as normal. Too hard of a crimp can bust loose your case tension and can even bulge the brass below it.
You need a harder boolit to resist sizing when seating and you should see the base of boolit and grease grooves on the brass.
If boolits are too loose you need to polish down the expander.
Dies are important and it depends on what dies you have to get accuracy. Most size dies are OK but some have over size expanders made for soft lead, very old fashioned with the slow powders.
Here is all the crimp needed to hold a 420 gr boolit in a .475. I am trying to show the ripples in the brass from the GG's and boolit base but it is hard to get them on the camera.

[44man]

Darn picture didn't show up.

[Irascible]

It sounds like too light a load and won't build enough pressure for consistant ignition.
Also, 2 friends and I did a test with primers and 296 powder (same as H110). The federal magnum primers were best for velocity, accuracy and standard deviation. CCI Magnums were close behind and all others were way behind, especially the std primers. We started testing after we noticed the first one of us to use 296 had inconsistant ignition. Sometimes a BOOM and sometimes a bang, also different amounts of muzzle flash! Find a chronagraph and try it your self. This seems to be more true with 296/H110 than any other powder. Equal length cases for an equal crimp will also help, as will an expander that is tight enough (see above post).

[Lloyd Smale]

i agree with his findings. Ive never had any kind of luck using 110 with standard primers. I about exclusively use cci 350s with it anymore

[Dale53]

44man is absolutely correct. You need a decent crimp (but to hold the bullet in the case when adjoining rounds are fired). The most important thing is GOOD bullet pull. This is achieved by a sizing die that sizes the case enough then a "somewhat undersized" expanding stem. It should be at least .003" under cast bullet diameter. Then, using Hodgdon data, NEVER dropping below the minimum listed and you will eliminate your problems with H110/296. I have shot tens of thousands of these loads in a .44 Magnum without anything except SATISFACTION!

HEED THE WARNING: regarding "Ruger Only" data. That is ONLY for the LARGE FRAME Rugers. The New Vaquero, while a fine revolver, is NOT suitable for "Ruger Only" loads. It has a smaller frame and smaller diameter cylinder. It should be limited to regular .45 Colt loads that would be suitable for an original Generation 2 or 3 Colt 1873 revolver.

Dale53

[bigdog454]

I have also had that ignition problem with WW296 and H110 and standard primers; I switched to Win LP primers and the problem went away. Winchester states that their LP primers are for standard and magnum loads. I try to use nothing but Win primers now, but, with the avaliability of primers I now save the Win for problem powders.

[zxcvbob]

Sixteen grains is way too light with H110 or 296. It's about right for Blue Dot or AA#7 though (in a large-frame Ruger, Anaconda, or rifle (etc))

Herco and WSF are good at about 12 grains.

[44man]

I have also had that ignition problem with WW296 and H110 and standard primers; I switched to Win LP primers and the problem went away. Winchester states that their LP primers are for standard and magnum loads. I try to use nothing but Win primers now, but, with the avaliability of primers I now save the Win for problem powders.
I have been shooting the .44 and .45 with 296 since the late 70's and shot all my IHMSA matches with nothing but the Federal 150 primer. All of my hunting loads use them. My friends all use them. Not once in hundreds of thousands of rounds fired has there been a single problem.
Every time I change bullets I test with both primers and after years of work and testing, in every single case, the mag primer will triple group size.
I can not fathom what some of you are doing that makes a primer fail. I have hunted in bitter cold with my loads without a failure to kill a deer.
I even cut down .460 brass for the .454 so I could use a better primer then the SR crap and I tested the 150 in them to see what would happen. Every single round fired fine even with starting loads but accuracy was a little worse then a 155 primer.
I can't say the same for a SR mag primer in the .454 brass, they failed with starting loads and stuck boolits in the barrel.
Do groups like these from my Vaquero .45 using 296 and a 150 primer at 50 yards show a problem?
Just WHAT are you guys doing????:confused:

[BABore]

Using them wimpy standard primers must be why your getting the vertical stringing on them groups. Better listen to Lloyd now you old fart.[smilie=1: :bigsmyl2:

[44man]

Using them wimpy standard primers must be why your getting the vertical stringing on them groups. Better listen to Lloyd now you old fart.[smilie=1: :bigsmyl2:
OOPS my mistake! I can't blame eyesight or because I shot from the side of my leg---HAS to be the primers! :drinks:
With recoil something like a full snort .475, most here would only be good for a few shots. I have had the gun handed back after a guy shot one! They get your attention but thump deer to 100 yards like gangbusters. [smilie=s:
I agree with your last statement, I am an old stubborn fart! [smilie=1:
This is what they do to a 16" tree.

[BABore]

OOPS my mistake! I can't blame eyesight or because I shot from the side of my leg---HAS to be the primers! :drinks:
With recoil something like a full snort .475, most here would only be good for a few shots. I have had the gun handed back after a guy shot one! They get your attention but thump deer to 100 yards like gangbusters. [smilie=s:
I agree with your last statement, I am an old stubborn fart! [smilie=1:
This is what they do to a 16" tree.

Must get a hellava B&C score on a 16 inch tree. The smaller 8 inchers are more tender though.:-D

[44man]

The grape vine I killed on the off side is MUCH better, real juicy! :mrgreen:

[Tom W.]

I've tried both standard and magnum primers with full loads in both a .45 Colt and a .480 Ruger with a 400 gr. cast bullet, and truthfully didn't see much if any difference in the accuracy. The magnum primed loads did seem a bit more lively.

[44man]

I've tried both standard and magnum primers with full loads in both a .45 Colt and a .480 Ruger with a 400 gr. cast bullet, and truthfully didn't see much if any difference in the accuracy. The magnum primed loads did seem a bit more lively.
The .480 and up will NEED a magnum primer. Once you get so large, ignition is better.
My .475 and 45-70 revolvers use the Fed 155.
The problem with smaller cases like the .44 is that the pressure of a mag primer will move the boolit out a different amount with each shot before a good powder burn causing a change in capacity for each.
If you think your crimp will hold a boolit, think again. Try this, put in a mag primer then fill the case with corn meal and seat a boolit. Crimp hard as you like and then tell all of us how far up the barrel the boolit went. Even the best case tension can not hold a boolit.
Larger cases can absorb pressure and allow a good burn to start.
If you can not tell any difference between primers, you are not shooting to the accuracy potential of your gun. You are making noise.
I showed the .45, now let me show you the .44 with 296 and a 150 primer. This is 200 yards with my SBH. I was testing drop for my new boolit. Granted it is exceptional because I usually hold about 1-1/4" at 100 yards with a few now and then that go under 1". With the SRH I had I was shooting one beer can after the other at 200 yards.
Please show what you are talking about with pictures.

[44man]

What all of do not realize is that I have spent 34 to 36 years figuring out why a revolver was not considered accurate. I was not after the stuff the super shots use like Ed, Bob and Jerry, but hunting and steel busting loads. I read everything and got sick of the terrible loads shot with a Ransom rest at 25 yards. Hell, I followed Elmer and was shooting pretty small targets at 200 yards back in 1957. IHMSA changed me and put me to work. It has been a labor of love since and not much gets past me.
My friends and I are most likely shooting the smallest revolver groups with out of the box revolvers ever shot and shooting them farther then almost anyone ever has.
We shoot as far as 500 meters (547 yards.) with revolvers. I plan on shooting 800 yards this summer.
Now fellas, show me some proof of what you do with loads I know do not work. Been there, done that.

[.45Cole]

For 255gr loads, I use unique and have been experimenting with AA#5. Unique works well but is smokey. I have been using around 10-10.8 grns of AA#5 for around 900 some fps. These are probably heavy/er loads just so that somebody doesn't try stuffing them into colts/winchesters/replicas. You would be more wise to ditch the h110 for 255 gr boolits and find a medium burning pistol powder. Maybe herco or power pistol could be some other powders, but as everyone says, it's hard to beat unique (maybe universal clays?)

[Lloyd Smale]

Hell i think he keeps his best 3 targets he shot for his whole life and breaks them out everytime this subject comes up ;)

[Lloyd Smale]

I also have no doubt that they can be made to work as long as everything is perfect. A perfect crimp, perfect case tension and temperatures above freezing but i dont have time to load that precisely. I shoot to much to bother with it. I dont even seperate brass by headstamp or trim handgun brass and i know the way i load mag primers are hands down more accurate then standard and id about be that the majority of shooters have simualar luck to mine.

[DragoonDrake]

Thanks for all the advise guys. I will not have a chance to make the corrections for a few days. I do not shoot groups like that with a pistol, never been steady enough; I was loading these b/c I was going to go hiking for a few days where bears and cats have been spotted.

Thanks again

Adam

[44man]

Hell i think he keeps his best 3 targets he shot for his whole life and breaks them out everytime this subject comes up ;)
A lot of truth to that! :Fire: Once a gun is shooting we don't shoot much more paper. We shoot water bottles and cans off hand out of a tree stand out to over 80 yards. We are holding 6" at 100 off hand and we shoot a lot of steel here at 200 and go to the club to shoot to 500 meters.
I only revert to paper when I need to check new boolits or get sight settings.
I HATE bullseye shooting. So, yes, you see a lot of the same targets but they make the same point. Revolvers can and do shoot better then I can shoot them. It is so easy that it is a waste of time and energy to load wrong or to worry about all the small stuff that means nothing.
It only takes me one or two range sessions to get a new boolit shooting and it might never see paper again unless I change and need to sight in again.
The few simple basics do not change and a new revolver caliber will be shooting as good in no time at all.
The same loads for a .44 will work in any other .44, ditto the .45, .475 and on and on.
My friend brought over a new BFR 45-70. I unwrapped it, did a trigger job, mounted an Ultra Dot, loaded my loads in his cases, sighted it at 50 with a few shots and I proceeded to hit a bunch of 1-1/4" plastic targets at 100.
Simple, simple, simple, no muss, no fuss.
Some of the groups I show were in response to silly ideas posted. I would grab my gun and 5 shots, go down to my range and shoot a group and come back up and post it. The .45 targets were from that, I don't usually save all targets or cans or whatever. Many are the result in response to a question as to how a certain boolit shoots.
I have been posting for years and lately I am seeing what I posted being repeated by other fellas.
It is not hard, there are no secrets but loading wrong is a waste of time and money. Your groups start at the loading bench, not following what some rag writer printed in the last issue. I get so disgusted when they print some nice groups at 25 yards and brag about how good the gun is. If I can't better that at 50 without a Ransom rest, I go back to work.
Why should I shoot a new target for every post?
How many of you have posted groups? If anyone is doing better consistantly and knows something I don't, how about sharing? I don't know it all and might advance my procedures.
Same with archery! Years and years ago I figured out how to tune a compound bow for ANY broadhead in 5 minutes. Any broadhead I shoot flies perfect and hits the exact POA as the field points. I can change arrows and heads at will and in seconds put it in tune from adjustments recorded in my book. I wrote it up and copyrighted it, sent it to all the rags and was rejected. Now Easton is using it and their response was that guys in their lab worked it out-----yeah, right! Without money I can't fight them.
I could have kept everything top secret and printed 15 pages of crap, then when I show groups all of you would scratch your butts.
I HAVE been accused of lying many times.
I can't shoot like Bob or Jerry or Brian but my shots with revolver or bow shoot to the sights whether on or off target. Now days mostly off! [smilie=1:
What more is there then to have your gun shoot better then you can shoot it? :drinks:

[Tom W.]

Gee fella, I never said that I was shooting expert, just that the magnum primers seemed "livelier" than the standard, but my accuracy didn't seem to change much.
With my .44 and the 310 grain Lee bullet, with mag primers and H110, my SRH shoots about
2" to the right of the 245 grain SWC. But I still enjoy shooting it....

And truth be told, I don't have a "go to" load for my Blackhawk... It's my farting around gun, shooting whatever I feed it. It doesn't go hunting, and seldom gets to the range....but it has a lot of trail time.

[Lloyd Smale]

Id be very interested in any bow tuning tricks you can pass on to me. Never farted with it because i didnt understand it all. Send me a pm if you dont want to post it here.
A lot of truth to that! :Fire: Once a gun is shooting we don't shoot much more paper. We shoot water bottles and cans off hand out of a tree stand out to over 80 yards. We are holding 6" at 100 off hand and we shoot a lot of steel here at 200 and go to the club to shoot to 500 meters.
I only revert to paper when I need to check new boolits or get sight settings.
I HATE bullseye shooting. So, yes, you see a lot of the same targets but they make the same point. Revolvers can and do shoot better then I can shoot them. It is so easy that it is a waste of time and energy to load wrong or to worry about all the small stuff that means nothing.
It only takes me one or two range sessions to get a new boolit shooting and it might never see paper again unless I change and need to sight in again.
The few simple basics do not change and a new revolver caliber will be shooting as good in no time at all.
The same loads for a .44 will work in any other .44, ditto the .45, .475 and on and on.
My friend brought over a new BFR 45-70. I unwrapped it, did a trigger job, mounted an Ultra Dot, loaded my loads in his cases, sighted it at 50 with a few shots and I proceeded to hit a bunch of 1-1/4" plastic targets at 100.
Simple, simple, simple, no muss, no fuss.
Some of the groups I show were in response to silly ideas posted. I would grab my gun and 5 shots, go down to my range and shoot a group and come back up and post it. The .45 targets were from that, I don't usually save all targets or cans or whatever. Many are the result in response to a question as to how a certain boolit shoots.
I have been posting for years and lately I am seeing what I posted being repeated by other fellas.
It is not hard, there are no secrets but loading wrong is a waste of time and money. Your groups start at the loading bench, not following what some rag writer printed in the last issue. I get so disgusted when they print some nice groups at 25 yards and brag about how good the gun is. If I can't better that at 50 without a Ransom rest, I go back to work.
Why should I shoot a new target for every post?
How many of you have posted groups? If anyone is doing better consistantly and knows something I don't, how about sharing? I don't know it all and might advance my procedures.
Same with archery! Years and years ago I figured out how to tune a compound bow for ANY broadhead in 5 minutes. Any broadhead I shoot flies perfect and hits the exact POA as the field points. I can change arrows and heads at will and in seconds put it in tune from adjustments recorded in my book. I wrote it up and copyrighted it, sent it to all the rags and was rejected. Now Easton is using it and their response was that guys in their lab worked it out-----yeah, right! Without money I can't fight them.
I could have kept everything top secret and printed 15 pages of crap, then when I show groups all of you would scratch your butts.
I HAVE been accused of lying many times.
I can't shoot like Bob or Jerry or Brian but my shots with revolver or bow shoot to the sights whether on or off target. Now days mostly off! [smilie=1:
What more is there then to have your gun shoot better then you can shoot it? :drinks:

[44man]

Id be very interested in any bow tuning tricks you can pass on to me. Never farted with it because i didnt understand it all. Send me a pm if you dont want to post it here.
Sure, I will give you my address and I will send what I wrote up.

[DragoonDrake]

Hey guys, I bumped up my charge to 23grs and wow do they shoot. Nice, sharp, a little more recoil than my 4.5grs clays but still very nice. At 50feet held a 2in group. Sorry I don't own a camera that lets me download pictures.

Thank you all for the advice.

Adam

[MtGun44]

Remember that the powder companies strongly recommend against going below
the minimum loads posted in their books with H110/W296 so you are verifying one of
the reasons not to do this. The implication has always been that you might also get
way too high pressure from lower than recommended loads, too.

H110/W296 is a great powder for full power loads in .44 Mag and .45 LC, and some more
of the hot magnums. Usually gives great accy, too, esp with mag primers.

Bill

[zxcvbob]

23 is still a little light. I don't use 296 very often, but I load it at 25 or 25.5 grains.

[shotman]

Why would you want to use 25gr when you can use 8 to 12gr ?? 110 296 is better on a compressed charge.
I like these guys that shoot 2in groups at 200yds with a 44 mag. They cut down 460 brass to make 454 come on. That is the same as the rifle guys saying they shoot 1in groups with a open sight garand. A 1 in group is very good for a sniper rifle and they dont use a Garand most use a 44 mag with a 2in barrel with cut down 460 brass resized and fire formed deglazed and restamped just my .02 rick

[zxcvbob]

Why would you want to use 25gr when you can use 8 to 12gr ?? That's why I don't use 296 very often. 7.5 grains of Red Dot is a very shootable load. And 12.2 grains of Herco (with a 255 grain boolit) gives right at 1300 fps from a 7.5" barrel. But if you gotta have more power than that, 26 grains of 296 or H-110 will give you almost 1500 fps at less chamber pressure that the Herco load. That's a bigger increase in muzzle energy than it looks like from the numbers.

(BTW, I don't think you can form .460 brass down to .44 Mag)

[jack19512]

(BTW, I don't think you can form .460 brass down to .44 Mag)









I believe that was .460 brass to .454 if I am not mistaken. :?

[44man]

I believe that was .460 brass to .454 if I am not mistaken. :?
Yes it was. We had ignition problems with SR primers and even an over max load was giving us too high SD's with groups that were not as good as the gun was capable of.
Just going to a LP mag primer tightened groups very well.
I see shotman is a non believer! Oh well, I try! I can tell him I like long barrels, not shorter then 7-1/2". I like 10" best.
This is what I used to do with single shots at 100 and 200 yards, back when I had good vision. Now I can't find the sights! :neutral::neutral:

[44man]

Shotman, here are two, five shot sighter groups from last fall when getting sighted for deer hunting. Only 50 yards though.
I can't make any excuses for my guns, any shots that open a group will be my fault, poor vision, holding still, etc.
This huge revolver will keep shots on a steel ram at 500 meters. It shoots 3 times better then my 45-70 rifle.
It is not a reflection on me, only on the great gun and how rounds are loaded before stuffing them in the gun.
Why is it some of the great exhibition shooters break balloons at 200 yards with a 2" snubby? Could you be missing something?

[44man]

Lloyd E mailed me about his devastating fire that destroyed his barn and all of his equipment. Nothing like that should happen to one of our great members and I hope all of you join in with prayers that he can overcome this tragedy.
True that it was only material things but I just can not put myself in his place right now, he must be beside himself. Join me in wishing him well.

[ebner glocken]

23 grains, now you're getting in the ballpark. I would be willing to bet you're still getting quite a bit of unburned powder left in the barrel. H-110 and ww-296 really do need plenty of backpressure to burn closer to complete.

Ebner

[DragoonDrake]

Actually not that much unburned powder. I was shown the hodgdon data center Saturday and saw that i was still under load. Please remember that the Speer manual showed a load from 17-22gr. After see some other data and talking to you find guys, I believe that this is a typo.

Adam

P.S. Yes I will bump upto 23.5gr and 24gr shortly, though hodgdon has a max of 24gr and I a little unsure as to exceed this.

[Dale53]

I have literally shot thousands of .44 magnum loads with a 250 Keith ahead of 23.0 grs of H110 (that is my practice load for .44 magnum). My hunting load is 24.0 grs of H110. I have plenty of case neck tension and a decent crimp. I have NEVER had any problems with this combination. It shoots well to over a 100 yards.

Dale53

[44man]

Many do not realize that heavy loads of fast powder needed to get the same velocity achieved with H110 or 296 can cause boolit damage at the forcing cone and skidding in the rifling. Accuracy will never match the slower powders.
Why buy a .44 mag and then use fast powders? A .44 special would be better. Same with a .357, if you are going to use Bullseye why not stay with a .38?
Larger cases are made for a reason, and that is to gain velocity without a loss of accuracy.

[Dale53]

44man;
I agree fully with you regarding "full loads". I have the luxury of more than one handgun and most of my .44 magnums are dedicated to full loads with H110 or equivalent. However, for the individual who only has one gun, the faster powders like Bullseye and Unique make sense to me for:

Bullseye - light target loads
Unique - Moderate loads

That way the feller who only has the Magnum can shoot "pleasant loads" when target shooting and can become "one" with the gun without all of the noise, recoil, and cost of the heavy loads. But hey! you know that:mrgreen:.

These days I shoot many more target loads than full magnum loads (I shoot mostly paper these days) so the faster powders are quite useful to me.

Dale53

[zxcvbob]

Why buy a .44 mag and then use fast powders? Because you wanted a .45 Colt, but the .44 is inherently more accurate because the tolerances are held tighter?


HS-6, Herco, WSF, AA#7, and especially 2400 and AA#9 are not fast powders. They are all good for cast bullet "magnum" loads. Titegroup, RedDot, 231, TrailBoss, and Clays are fast powders, they are good for light loads. Unique, Universal, and Bullseye are in the middle. (Don't believe everything you read about Bullseye. It is kind of on the cusp between fast and medium powders. I group it with the mediums because it outperforms all other fast powders)

I lieft out Blue Dot because I don't like BD ;) It goes in the first catagory if you want to try it.

[44man]

44man;
I agree fully with you regarding "full loads". I have the luxury of more than one handgun and most of my .44 magnums are dedicated to full loads with H110 or equivalent. However, for the individual who only has one gun, the faster powders like Bullseye and Unique make sense to me for:

Bullseye - light target loads
Unique - Moderate loads

That way the feller who only has the Magnum can shoot "pleasant loads" when target shooting and can become "one" with the gun without all of the noise, recoil, and cost of the heavy loads. But hey! you know that:mrgreen:.

These days I shoot many more target loads than full magnum loads (I shoot mostly paper these days) so the faster powders are quite useful to me.

Dale53
I too, shoot many plinking loads for fun. However I never load to full magnum loads with fast powder and for the .44 and .45 I only use 7 gr of Unique or 231. Very nice shooting.
Fast powders are useful and fun but to increase it for high velocity is just wrong.

[Frank]

Shotman says
Why would you want to use 25gr when you can use 8 to 12gr ?? 110 296 is better on a compressed charge.
I like these guys that shoot 2in groups at 200yds with a 44 mag. They cut down 460 brass to make 454 come on. That is the same as the rifle guys saying they shoot 1in groups with a open sight garand. A 1 in group is very good for a sniper rifle and they dont use a Garand most use a 44 mag with a 2in barrel with cut down 460 brass resized and fire formed deglazed and restamped just my .02 rick

No, the question is, why would you want to use 8-12 grs, when you can be using 25grns? :groner: Is that the only gun you have? :violin: Well, all the more reason to use it to it's full potential. :shock: I like to hear about people who shoot 2" groups at 200 yrds with a 44 mag. :idea: That's what keeps me coming back to this site. :coffeecom Not just a pie plate with holes in it at a short distance. [smilie=l: A 1" group with a Garand at 100 yds with iron sights - now that sounds worthwhile. :redneck:

[44man]

Frank, I will start the ball rolling. I dug around and found some 200 yd stuff I shot. Since we mostly shoot steel I don't have a lot but these were shot with a SBH, SRH, BFR .475 and BFR 45-70. Ultra Dot, no scope.
We will see how many will follow me. [smilie=l:

[Frank]

OK, guys. a challenge was put to 44man that his shooting was "BS", and 44man had to step up to the plate. For those that are new, this is old stuff. It has to be done once in while so good information and accomplishments don't get diluted. For those that are offended, please reconsider. It's all designed for the betterment of the whole. It also helps promote the casting hobby, remember he's using all cast projectiles. Hurray for 44man and cast boolits. Great website.