Factors Affecting As Cast Size

[Farmall 1066]

Finally found a Lyman 314299 to ust for my 303 Lee- Enfield. Much to my dismay, it casts around .311-312. I'm casting W-W, with about 1 pound of magnum shot to 10# of W-W, also with about 1/2# of 60/40 solder. According to my Lyman thermometer, I've tried casting at various temps between 650-850f. I've also tried straight W-W, with the same results. I tried air cooled and water dropped, no measurable difference there either.
Tried ladle and bottom pour also, nothing has produced any repeatable, measurable difference. I have even checked calibration of my micrometers and dial calipers! Seems like I usually have this problem with Lee molds, but this is a first with a Lyman.
I'm kind of starting to think Lyman may have just given me an undersized mold, which in normal times would just be an aggravation, but with things the way they are, I have a feeling getting this replaced could be a real headache.
Can anyone suggest any other factors which may affect as cast diameter?

Andy

[stubshaft]

ALLOY - Cast with pure lino and your bullets should measure .314+.

[Maximilian225]

Beagle it!

http://www.castpics.net/molds/Beagling.htm

http://www.castpics.net/memberarticles/Bullet%20Diameter%20Enlargement.htm

-Max

[jdgabbard]

ALLOY - Cast with pure lino and your bullets should measure .314+.

Not everyone can get their hands on Lino.

You might also try casting a bit hot and with a little extra tin added to your alloy. If that don't fix it, beagle the mold, or (what I prefer to do) lap it.

[Farmall 1066]

The only lino I can find around here is a 55 gallon drum of stereotype. The owner, a scrap dealer, is never sober. I have been trying for 7-8 years to get him to put a price on it, without any luck.
It seems like I have had alot of trouble with undersized molds, over the years, but maybe it just seems that way, since you can always size an oversized bullet.
I'm a bit hesitant to lap this mold. It's brand new, and I'm concerned that may void any warranty Lyman might offer.

Andy

[44man]

Mold and lead temp has very little effect. However casting real hot so boolits are completely frosted can make a boolit SMALLER.
Remember to not measure boolits right out of the mold even if water dropped. You can with pure lead but an alloy will grow in diameter over a hardening period. You might gain .001" over a few days with a .30 caliber.
It is common to get under size molds, most every factory mold I have ever bought suffers from this. The .45 molds for instance, most are listed as .457". Now how many guns have that small of a bore? Then to have one that was cut with a worn and re-sharpened cherry will make the boolit useless. I spent just too much time lapping out molds.

[Farmall 1066]

I checked them within an hour of casting them, then about 24 hours later....no detectable change. I know what you mean, 44. Never seen a 45/70 barrel that ran .457". Lee is especially bad about this.
Andy

[Gunfixer]

I must be the luckiest guy here. I use 50/50 WW/ pure water dropped.
Lee 457-340 drops .460
309-170 fn drops .310
358-148 drops .359
451-2281r drops .452
Lyman 375- 264gn drops .377
( yeah I know not the lyman #)
I have done nothing to any of these moulds but super clean and cast

[StarMetal]

I recently send back a Lyman 266469 mould. Even with linotype it would barely cast over .264 out of the mould. They send a new one back and it's better, but not perfect. It won't quite reach .266, but close enough for my needs.

Joe

[Recluse]

I checked them within an hour of casting them, then about 24 hours later....no detectable change. I know what you mean, 44. Never seen a 45/70 barrel that ran .457". Lee is especially bad about this.
Andy

Lee, hell. I've had problems like you're having with the last THREE Lyman moulds I've bought. When I called customer service the first time, all I accomplished was to waste my time and feed an oxygen thief.

The second and third moulds that I bought together--and had the same problem--got sent back to the mail-order house. You'll never see another New Lyman mould in my shop again. The Old Lyman stuff was and is superb.

Out of over a dozen Lee two-cavity moulds, I've only had one mould that even came close to dropping undersized. A bit of lapping solved that.

Don't worry about the New Lyman's warranty. It's not worth the paper it's written on. Anything wrong with a mould is your fault according to the oxygen thieves they have manning the phones.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

I would chance a call to Lyman. If you get one of the "oxygen thieves" then demand to talk to a supervisor. It's worth a try.

[Farmall 1066]

I called Graf and Sons, and they really came to the plate on this one. Called Lyman first, and got the feeling I was going to get shafted. Couldn't even get an estimate from them, in regard to turnaround time, or even that warranty work got any priority over new production.

Graf's sent out a new replacement, and when I send the other one back, they'll credit my debit card for the shipping. I told the lady this was more than fair.....sending the new mold without payment for it, she chuckled and said "we have your card #". Hadn't thought about that!

Just hope this mold is from a different batch!

Andy

[BHLUA]

I would chance a call to Lyman. If you get one of the "oxygen thieves" then demand to talk to a supervisor. It's worth a try.

OHHHHHH but i have tried this..........Everyone answering the $&#% phone is a supervisor or manager or "2nd level customer service" I have had this same problem.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Learn to lap your molds, if you are afraid that you may make a mistake , use an old mold to begin with that you don't use much. I gave up on the MFG's a long time ago, getting them to respond positively is A PITA. I like as cast boolits if I can make the mold drop what I want, so I do a lot of lapping. It is just another part of the hobby.

Lyman is hurting right now, most Lee's drop oversize, RCBS are close, Saeco is usually oversize.

If you want molds that drop exactly what you want, you will need to go to a custom mold maker and give them the alloy your using , they cost more , but are usually within spec or they will fix them asap.

[454PB]

The only lino I can find around here is a 55 gallon drum of stereotype. The owner, a scrap dealer, is never sober. I have been trying for 7-8 years to get him to put a price on it, without any luck.


Andy

If you can figure out what he drinks, buy a case of it and offer it in trade for that stereotype!

[HeavyMetal]

454 has it right!

Most drunks are billigerent by nature but put the right "fuel" in front of them and they'll deal!

[mooman76]

Mold and lead temp has very little effect. However casting real hot so boolits are completely frosted can make a boolit SMALLER.
Remember to not measure boolits right out of the mold even if water dropped. You can with pure lead but an alloy will grow in diameter over a hardening period. You might gain .001" over a few days with a .30 caliber.
It is common to get under size molds, most every factory mold I have ever bought suffers from this. The .45 molds for instance, most are listed as .457". Now how many guns have that small of a bore? Then to have one that was cut with a worn and re-sharpened cherry will make the boolit useless. I spent just too much time lapping out molds.

Good tip 44man! I didn't realize that they grew too, I just thought they got harder. I just got a GB mould and was about to get rid of it. It was suppose to drop at .314 but it was dropping at .312. I just checked again after 5 days and they are at more like .313 now. I can live with that better and will probubly lap them to .314 and for the guns that need it beagle more! But now I have to recheck all my bullets! Thanks allot!

[Maximilian225]

http://www.castpics.net/molds/Beagling.htm

http://www.castpics.net/memberarticles/Bullet%20Diameter%20Enlargement.htm

-Max

[Le Loup Solitaire]

As pointed out, letting the casts cure can bring diameters up another .001, but there are, as also mentioned/recommended, another couple of ways to increase the dia. Go to the Saeco website and you will find reference to "The Terracorp formula". This is essentially an explanation that using Lino or adding tin to WW's will increase the diameter of the casts by as much as .002. This principle was also published in H&G catalogues some years ago to assist customers in ordering molds to the diameters that they wanted. What has not been mentioned, altho it is part of the information furnished by the above cited sources, is that bullets cast of Lino or enriched by tin will weigh as much as 6.35 % less by weight....and of course be hard up to as much as 22 Brinnell. Lapping the mold is a very good option and the permanent one. It is not rocket science and can be successfully done if one is careful, or get someone to do it for you if you don't feel really comfortable/confident. +1 to Slow Elk 45-70 who summed it up well. One cannot rely on the crap quality control that is coming out of the mfg's these days and it is imperative to get informed and involved if you want to achieve decent accuracy. What the mold makers are doing is running the cutting cheeries longer to cut costs; its all about moolah and they don't care. Neither does the robot that answers the phone, reads from a card and plays zone defense for the company, so you've got to take care of #1 yourself. Enjoy casting and good shooting. LLS

[dromia]

Paper patching is also an effective option for increasing boolit size and potentially performance.

[jack19512]

I must be the luckiest guy here.










I must be the 2nd luckiest guy here then because I have never had a Lee mold that didn't drop boolits larger than the stated size. I'm kind of new at this compared to a lot of guys here so it's always been easier for me to size a boolit down rather than grow it bigger. This has been one of the things that I have liked about the Lee molds.