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View Full Version : 6.5 Jap no happiness



jonk
05-04-2009, 09:33 AM
Figured I'd try some cast lead in my 6.5 Jap type I. I tried 2 molds. Lyman 140 gr and the Lee Midsouth 170 gr cruise missle. Both cast with WQWW+5% 50/50 solder.

First problem- the Jap die wouldn't accept the .266 Lyman bullet much less the .268 Lee. The Lee was fat enough that it actually would seat on the 'shoulder' of the seating die, without the bullet ever entering the stem. Odd, but it worked and runout didn't look bad. The Lymans I had no choice but to size down 1/1000 more as they would go into the stem and then stick there.

50/50 lube, gas check. There's the second problem; the Lee mold wouldn't hold the checks well. They were loose after sizing at .268. I'm going to have to open up the base of the mold a tad or run just the gas check portion into a .264 die, or else superglue them on. Probably the latter 2 for the short term until I get to the real fix.

Ok. So I read a thread here that 26 gr of 4895 might be a good load for these. Both bullets seated to just off the lands. Worth a shot as I had 4895 readily on hand. Results:

Lyman- nothing great. All on paper but maybe a 10" group at 100 yards. Bullets DID stabilize. No real leading.

Lee- I used a dacron fluff filler on these to help hold the gas checks on the base for the ride down the bore.

Results? The worst leading I have ever seen! After 10 rounds!

Given a good bullet fit (3/1000 over bore size) seated to the lands and a decent lube I'm forced to consider one of 2 things happened. Either despite the dacron, the gas check was falling off- quite possible considering the base of the bullet protruded well below the neck- or whatever the rifling twist rate in this gun is, it was incompatible with higher velocity heavy cast bullets much like a 6.5 Swede. Or maybe both.

Lots of scrubbing with steel wool and such and the bore is mostly clean. It's soaking for a week with Kroils to try and get under whatever is left.

Thoughts? Next time I'm going to try the other end of the spectrum with like 8 gr of Unique or Red Dot and see if the velocity theory could be the key.

corvette8n
05-04-2009, 10:33 AM
I had simular problem with a Carcano only it wwas the other way around, bullets rattled around the bore and came out sideways, finally sized some .270 cast to 268 and loaded under 8gr of Unique got them on parer then went to various loads of H4895. I did use a homemade electronic bore cleaner and what I dumped in the pail looked like what comes out of a sewer.

Ben
05-04-2009, 10:42 AM
jonk :

Have you slugged your bore so that you know the dia. of the bore ?

jonk
05-04-2009, 12:02 PM
Ben-

Not as such, no, but given that the Lyman didn't lead (though had poor accuracy) I'd think that it is .265 or smaller as that was what I sized the Lymans to.

I normally do do this but just didn't have an egg sinker that small on hand. It could be coming up next.

Could be the Lees were just TOO fat- but 3 or 4 thousandths over nominal diameter would probably be fine so far as leading goes so I dunno.

EMC45
05-04-2009, 12:05 PM
Use a greased up buckshot pellet.

runfiverun
05-04-2009, 01:44 PM
back that load dow to 24 grs. and start over.

Four Fingers of Death
05-04-2009, 10:03 PM
Watching with interest here, I picked up an excellent 6.5 Jap and recently got dies and cases. No mould yet.

madsenshooter
05-05-2009, 01:16 AM
I don't think the problem with the Arisaka is the twist rate, it's the rounded metford style rifling. It takes a very hard bullet to keep from stripping. #2 buckshot is the perfect size, .270", for slugging a 6.5 rifle bore.

jonk
05-05-2009, 07:33 AM
I don't think the problem with the Arisaka is the twist rate, it's the rounded metford style rifling. It takes a very hard bullet to keep from stripping. #2 buckshot is the perfect size, .270", for slugging a 6.5 rifle bore.

Hmm interesting. I could up it to a harder alloy and/or reduce velocity.

I'll tinker a bit more but it's not a gun I shoot a lot so if it is just a jacketed gun so be it.

Ben
05-05-2009, 08:40 AM
Take 1 of your 6.5 cast bullets , set it on a hard flat surface, tap the top of the bullet with a small hammer until the outside dia. of the bullet is .270 "

Grease the bore and the bullet, tap it through.

No more wondering what the bore dimensions are ?

curator
05-05-2009, 06:30 PM
I concur with Madsenshooter. My 6.5 Jap would not shoot accurately with soft boolits. I use wheel weight alloy with 2% tin added and water drop quench for a hardness of BHN24. The Medford-style rifling is the culpret. The fact that you had severe leading indicates your boolit is too small, or you have a large thoat. My Jap has a .2685 throat and a .266 groove diameter. I use an LBT custom mould .268/140gr SpGC design. I have also found that really slow powder seems to work better with this rifling type (.303 Lee Medfords too) 42 grains of AA8700 or 44 grains of WC860 also works very well with velocities around 1650 fps.

If you have severe leading try bronze wool instead of steel wool on an old nylon bore brush. This will scrub away leadiing nicely and not scratch your bore. Bronze or copper chore-boy kitchen scrubbing pads also work great for this simple task.

Bret4207
05-06-2009, 07:45 AM
Steel wool, 4/0, will not scratch your bore either.

StarMetal
05-06-2009, 11:26 AM
Here's an interesting read on cleaning your barrel.


http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

Notice the use of GM Top Engine cleaner and the Mercury (not the metal) cleaner.

Joe