Cowboy shooter needs advice

[mkaye]

I would like to start casting my own boolits
i've been collecting wheel weights for the past year
i have measured my 2 New Vaqueros and they are both .452 and i have been shooting 255g .452 RNFP out of them & my 1873 Uberti without issues (i want the same bullet for both pistol & rifle)
i would probably like to go down to ~200g when i start casting (unless there is a compelling reason not to do so)
should i get a mold that is .452 or slightly larger?
would i have to size either way?
i would like to get a 4-6 cavity mold - i can get the Lee molds locally

mark

both pistols shoot low with the current load and i have to split the front sight about 1/2 way to hit the target (haven't got the nerve to file them down yet)
if a different bullet would help this then please let me know

[sdiver40]

.452 should be just fine for both rifle and pistol. but up to .454 should be ok too. In cowboy action shooting you not loading very hot most time anyway. most of the guys are shooting the (Long Colt) (452 Diameter) 200 Grain Flat Nose
Tom

[MtGun44]

You need to know the cylinder throat diameters. This is more important than
the groove diam of the bbl, altho you need both to choose the boolit diam that you
are going for. You want about .001 to .002 larger than the throat diam, altho some
folks have good results with right on throat diam.

Now - the fly in the ointment is that if your throats are SMALLER than the groove
diam. If this is the case, you should have the throats opened up to about .001
larger than the groove diam.

Bill

[John Boy]

+1 ... 100% what MtGun says. And lube/sizing a 1000+ bullets at one sitting is a PITA!. So, get the 6 gang mold and pan lube them as cast ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=5919.0

The lube is for BPCR not smokeless, so the smokeless lube is your choice if you don't shoot black powder

[stubshaft]

+1 ... 100% what MtGun says. And lube/sizing a 1000+ bullets at one sitting is a PITA!. So, get the 6 gang mold and pan lube them as cast ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=5919.0

The lube is for BPCR not smokeless, so the smokeless lube is your choice if you don't shoot black powder


+1 What John Boy said BUT tumble lube in alox instead.

[cajun shooter]

Will disagree about the lube method. I shoot CAS and shoot 3 matches a month and I 'm on my 12th straight weekend due to some three day shoots. What I'm getting at is that if you start shooting and liking the CAS scene you will go through a lot of bullets. If you can afford to buy a Star, do so. I had three set up but now I'm using two with air cylinders. John Boy has a wealth of info and I'm not putting down on his post but he is a hard core BPCR shooter and is use to pan lubing. As far as the Alox method , it leaves a sticky residue on the nose of the bullet that has to be wiped off with a rag soaked in mineral spirits. It will also not work if you decide to try some of the "real cowboy loads" and use black powder. The Alox will form a black tar in your bbls. Cas cost money for sure

[Echo]

You are considering using a lighter boolit (200 gr. vs. 255 gr.). While that will reduce recoil, the lighter boolit will shoot even lower than the heavier. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true. The sights of your Vaqueros are regulated for a standard 45 load, and you are loading less-recoiling loads that don't kick the gun up as much. The boolit is still in the barrel during the early stages of recoil, so less recoil = lower impact. Get out the file...

[mkaye]

i measured the cylinder throats @.452
i use Trail Boss, so no black powder yet (keep thinking about it tho)
i did shoot .454, but the .452 seem better
so, if i get a Lee 6-chamber mold 452-200-RF, do i need to resize, or does it depend a lot on the alloy, in this case wheel weights
i was going to use Alox - i shoot 1-2 times/month, ~3000 rnds does me for the year

mark

[jimkim]

You shoot cowboys?!!:cry:

[sdiver40]

I dont think you would have to resize them if you water Quench ( drop ) them. I use an RCBS luber sizer so they get sized along with lubing them. I just like the luber sizer more than I do the liquid alox.

[Westwindmike]

I used to shoot CAS with .44 Vaqueros, tumble lubed with LLA, and never wiped the nose of the boolit. Never caused any problems in my Marlin either.

[sdiver40]

I shoot the marlin with .44 Vaqueros also with no problem using the alox. I just prefer the lube in the grooves. No mess on my boolit loops either

[mkaye]

You shoot cowboys?!!:cry:

we shoot Indians too (even tho it isn't politically correct)

mark

[HORNET]

Gotta watch that, mkaye, the tribe around here built a casino a while back. I figure at the rate they're going, they'll buy the country back........after the BIG bankrupcy.

[Irascible]

I hope all the info didn't scare you. Fact is the pistol targets are big and close and rifle targets not much further and often bigger. .452 or bigger will work. A sizer is the fastest way to apply lube, you can size with the appropriate die or not size by installing a larger die that will just apply the lube. Alox smokes and hurts my sinuses, but I'm using the 12 free sticks I have anyway. When that runs out I have some door prize sticks of Lyman Black Powder Gold I'll use up. When I run out of that, I'll pick the cheapest medium hard lube I can find. I'm not a fan of really soft lubes except for use with black powder. Fact is it really doesn't matter what we use for Cowboy Action Shooting as accuracy is not that important. Save the accuracy worries and the good lube for the long range side events.

[jack19512]

Never caused any problems in my Marlin either.








I had to start wiping the nose of my boolits that I shoot in my Marlins, it started gumming up my loading tube. The boolits started to get hung in the tube and not load properly.

[WHITETAIL]

mkaye, Welcome to the forum![smilie=s:

[WHITETAIL]

mkeye, If you want to tumble lube
try JPW. (Johnsons Paste Wax)
If you are not sizing them just
put them in a small jar.
And add a table spoon of JPW.
Then warm the jar and boolets
up till the wax melts.
Swirl the boolets in the jar.
Then take them out with tweezers and
set them base down on wax paper
over night.:cbpour:

[madcaster]

You shoot cowboys?!!:cry:


Oh No!:roll::-D

[mkaye]

so, i should really stick with the 255's?
another shooter uses the 200g, i'll fire a few to see how the POI changes the next time we are together and then make a decision

mark


You are considering using a lighter boolit (200 gr. vs. 255 gr.). While that will reduce recoil, the lighter boolit will shoot even lower than the heavier. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it's true. The sights of your Vaqueros are regulated for a standard 45 load, and you are loading less-recoiling loads that don't kick the gun up as much. The boolit is still in the barrel during the early stages of recoil, so less recoil = lower impact. Get out the file...

[Echo]

I would stick with the heavier boolits, and regulate their impact with powder load. More powder, higher impact due to more recoil - I think...

[Springfield]

My wife shoots 45 Colt with the LEE 200 grain rnfp bullet, I just cast them and tumble lube, and she has had nary a problem with pistols nor rifle. The bullets drop about .452-.453, so no need to size if you don't want to. Just put a light coating of LLA, no need to over-do it. I used to Moly coat her bullets, but the LLA is easier and faster. At the 20 feet we shoot at it's hard t believe the sights are off enough to worry about. I've been doing this since 1999 and I have never filed sights on a gun, and I shoot 160 grainers from my 44-40 with BP.

[zxcvbob]

You might try 230 grain boolits; will shoot closer to POA. I've shot many hundreds of them (don't think I'm up to 1000 yet) lubed with LLA, over Promo powder (it's just like Red Dot but cheaper.)

If you use Rooster Jacket instead of LLA, you won't have to wipe their noses because it dries clear and hard.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

If you shoot the same boolit with a higher charge of powder, it will normally print lower than the slower load. If you shoot a liter boolit, it should print lower. If you shoot a heavier boolit it should print higher. This may not always be the case, if you shoot poofer loads with no recoil, and switch to one going 1300fps, I imagine it will print higher, I have no experience with this. There are exceptions to most Rules of Thumb.

The weight and speed/time in the barrel is all relevant. IMHO

If you want one load for both pistol and rifle , make one you like for the pistol , make sure it will feed in the rifle and there you have it, set your sights and shooting.

If I use a hotter load for my rifle , I use a different boolit and mark the primers, so it is easy to distinguish between the two . Safety is necessary when carrying two different loads for two different weapons., as we all know.

All of this is dependant on your personal preference

[fredj338]

I shot 100s of CAS matches a few years ago. The 45colts are setup for std. vel. 250-255gr bullets. Anything you shoot, 200gr, 230gr or even 255gr @ low vel. will shoot low. You are going to have to file that front sight down, that is the only way to get closer to POA/POI. I like the 2oogrRNFP for a balance of soft recoil & enough mass to drop a steel popper. Run them about 750fps & you can still shoot very fast w/ ample power. I like the Lee mold, they do cast small unless you cast harder alloy, so sizing may not be needed. For those vel. you really want a softer bullet anyway.

[zxcvbob]

I don't understand shooting lightweight bullets at as low a velocity as you can -- but then again I don't shoot CAS. If I did, I would probably be the guy shooting a .44-40 or a .45 Colt (either one) with as much black powder as I could cram in the cases behind a heavy bullet. I know my scores would suffer, but I'd be having fun :D

I do shoot Bullseye pistol, and I shoot heavy loads that duplicate self defense loads. I kind of have a reputation at the club for making a *lot* of noise when I shoot centerfire. I try to get the end stall so don't bother so many other shooters.

[cajun shooter]

zxcvbob, Not all shooters in Cas are gamers. I shoot 45 Colt loaded to the brim with 2F. I also shoot 75gr BP 12 ga. loads. There are those of us who use the same equipment and loads as what was used in the 1880's. When you hear thunder and feel the ground shake don't run for cover it's just a Cowboy shooting the real powder!!!

[TAWILDCATT]

I used the lee 252 gr and 9.5 gr unique.in 45 Ruger and WIN 94.also the 200 gr SWC lee for the 45acp in the 45 colt.same charge.

[Springfield]

I'm with Cajun, just fill the case with ffg and seat the bullet.