need advice: 1895G vs 1895 cowboy

[saigafan2008]

Howdy!

I need some advice. I'm saving up to buy a Marlin 1895 in 45/70. I've already bought a Ranch Dog Molds TLC460-425-RF and have dies on back-order, so I'm getting eager to make a purchase!

My problem is I'm torn as to which model to get: the Guide Gun or the Cowboy? I've never had a 45-70, and neither do any of my buddies. I also never had the chance to shoot one.

Although I do like the looks of the Cowboy better, I'm more concerned with accuracy than looks. I always heard growing up that a longer barrel was more accurate, but in recent years it seems this is sometimes no longer true...?

Any advice/personal experience on which model to get is greatly appreciated!

Many thanks,

Carl

[docone31]

I would go with the long barrel. I had a regular length one, and I did not really care for it. Just did not feel right.
Go with the long barrel.

[softpoint]

Others will have different opinions, but I own 3 at the present, and have owned others. If I could have only 1, It would be the standard, pistol grip 22inch rifle I have a guide gun, and I like it because it is stainless, Now myreasons are I shoot a pistol grip better offhand. The shorter barrel? Why? Now, the shorty's look nice, but I don't think you gain anything with a shorter barrel. I don't hunt in any thickets so dense that 4 inches of barrel makes any difference. Now, the cowboy gun is nice, too, but I see no reason to pay extra for a octagon barrel. I had a LTDIII, which is a 20 inch octagon barrel. Very light rifle for heavy loads. and, that particular thin octagon barrel never shot quite as well as any of my round barrel rifles. Now, other folks here will have different experiences, and opinions. :drinks::-D:castmine:

[JesterGrin_1]

A couple of people have given there thoughts on this subject but I will throw in my O.O2 as well.

To be honest which one you pick is up to you. Go Pick each one up and see how they feel as again to be honest in the end you have to be comfortable with what YOU shoot and what you are going to use it for as that will determine your loads and which rifle would suit you the best. .

Pro's and Con's in my eyes of each type of Marlin 1895. As no matter which one you pick they all shoot GREAT. :)

Marlin 1895 Cowboy in 45-70

Pro's BEAUTIFUL rifle in the theme of the long lever actions they would carry in the late 1880's. Holds 10 rounds of 45-70 with the 26" barrel

Con's Very Long rifle, Heavier than the other two. And with the weight and the length harder to carry and get around with on foot than the other two.

Marlin 1895 45-70 standard length Barrel of 22"

Pro's Still looks good in blue as that is how they come. Pistol Grip Stock which some say help with heavy recoil. And easy to replace the butt pad with an aftermarket one by say LimbSaver.

Con's It is a little Longer and Heavier than the GS and or Guide gun. It only comes in blue.

Marlin 1895GS Guide Gun 18.5" barrel

Pro's It is a bit shorter than the others and a little less weight not by much between it and the standard model. It is easy to carry and swing in close quarters either going up into a tree stand or a blind or just walk hunting. It has a straight stock which I do like as for carry as well as pointing it in a hurry. And it is Stainless Steel which is easier to take care of and need not worry about the elements nearly as much. But even though it is stainless you still need to take care of them as with any fire arm.

Con's Sorry can not think of any lol.

And I hate to bring this up even though it makes me DROOL lol. Marlin will have the new Marlin 1895SBL 45-70 out very soon.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/MarlinSBL.jpg

But as said before no matter which Marlin you pick in the 1895 they all shoot well and are very accurate. But I will warn you that they can be loaded from mild to WILD.

I have the Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 and I really really did I say really like it. :)

I might be a bit biased as I do like MARLINS lol. Top to bottom. Marlin 1894 .38/.357Mag, Marlin 1894 .44SP/.44Mag, Marlin 1895GS 45-70
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0002-1.jpg

This one is from my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 at 100 yards with the Ranch Dog 460-350GR GC with 52.0Gr of H-322, Rem Case,Fed 210 Primer. Bottom two are sight in and top three for group the day before going hunting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0005.jpg

This one is also from my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 at 100 yards with the Hornady 350GR J/RN with 53.0Gr of H-322,Rem Case,Fed 210 Primer. This one was just to find a load and get a group of which I think it did fine. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin45-70GS.jpg

And since my shots in the norm may go out to 150 yards I set my sights so I am about two inches high at 100 yards to compensate for drop out to the range of 150 yards. that way I will be with in a 5" kill zone. I will give two warnings lol. One is do not place your scope as far back as mine as if you are not careful you may need stitches lol. These loads THUMP as they are going about 2000FPS or so. And Purchase a Limb Saver Butt Pad. :)

Sorry I did notice that you purchased the Ranch Dog 460-425GC/TLC I have the mold as well and have casted a few of them. But I have no load data for it as of yet.

[beagle]

Well, being as every one else has, I'll throw my $.02 in. I have the standard model with the ballard rifling and I'm real happy with the way it shoots. Had it since they first came out with the ballard rifling. It handles everything from a 287 grain HP to the 545 grain 462560 Lyman and feeds them all. It shoots so well that it immediately forced a Number 1 Ruger out of the safe and to a gun show.

As a matter of personal preference, I like the longer barrel and sight radius as opposed to the Guide Gun. I suppose it has its uses but that's my take on it.

The cowboy, and I've had the opportunity to shoot a friends many times over the last several year, is like moving around a heavy crowbar. That long barrel makes it just too heavy.

If you're just intent on shooting off a bench, go for the cowboy. If you just want to brush hunt, go for the guide gun. If you plan to do a little of both, get the standard.

No matter which you get, you'll be a happy camper./beagle

[StarMetal]

I don't have the Marlin in 45-70, but I do have the Cowboy in 45 Colt, although it has the long long barrel, it's not as heavy as the 1895. With that said I do have a Browing/Winchester 1886 carbine in 45-70 and I absolutely love it. Getting back to what Beagle said I picked up the full length rifle at a gunshow once, that is the 1886 rifle not the Marlin, and first thing I said to my best friend was that I sure wouldn't want to carry this heavy thing elk hunting. That's why I bought the carbine with the round 20 inch barrel.

Joe

[August]

I have owned both. The answer depends on what you're going to use it for. Either might be more accurate, depends on the luck of the draw. Both will be very accurate, however.

I would shoot black powder in the long one (cowboy) and hot-load the short one. I'd definitely get the short one if any hunting is foreseen in its future. I'd get the long one for long range, black powder, or general pooping around with.

The short one is amazingly handy. The long one is very sexy and versatile.

I've owned both, as I said, but didn't keep either. I've got lot's of single shots in 45 2.1 and really didn't use either rifle for competition or plinking. I have a long one in 38-55 for long range lever contests.

Hot loaded, they both kick like mules. The short one is better to carry. The long one is better to shoot.

[stubshaft]

FWIW - I have the standard rifle and blued guide gun. They are both amazingly accurate. The rifle has a microgroove barrel and the guide gun has a ballard style rifling. They are both easy to carry in the woods BUT, the guide gun swings up a little faster and balances a smidgen better.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I'm marlin Poor also, I like the standard w/22" BBL, for carry/hunting , the guide is OK, I think it is to short and jerky, just don't like the feel. But I'm used to my regular levers for a long time.

The Cowboy is very nice looking, to heavy to be packed around on foot all day hunting, IMHO.
If you hunt off horse back or shoot the cowboy shoots for fun , it should be fine for this.

[gon2shoot]

Guess I'll add my 2cents too.
I bought a cowboy because I wanted the longer barrel, and found that it actually balances better than I expected it too.
Still, it is a little unhandy in some spots. I considered cutting it down, but every time I shot it I liked it better.

So I bought a 1886 with a 20"bbl. problem solved. :roll:

[sharpshooter3040]

Howdy!

I need some advice. I'm saving up to buy a Marlin 1895 in 45/70. I've already bought a Ranch Dog Molds TLC460-425-RF and have dies on back-order, so I'm getting eager to make a purchase!

My problem is I'm torn as to which model to get: the Guide Gun or the Cowboy? I've never had a 45-70, and neither do any of my buddies. I also never had the chance to shoot one.

Although I do like the looks of the Cowboy better, I'm more concerned with accuracy than looks. I always heard growing up that a longer barrel was more accurate, but in recent years it seems this is sometimes no longer true...?

Any advice/personal experience on which model to get is greatly appreciated!

Many thanks,

Carl

I have a cowboy and I love it . The balance is perfect and the longer sight plain makes a big difference. If you're hunting in heavy brush the guide gun edjes out slightly. I shoot an rcbs 300 grain on top of 42 gr of 4198 and it will cut one ragged hole at 100 yards. I am sure the guide gun will do just as well. If youre going for asthetics and handleing the cowboy beats all hands down.

Good luck an good shooting
Doug

[saigafan2008]

Wow, a lot of reponses so far! Many thanks for all who have posted.

I do plan on using the rifle for both target and hunting, but not in heavy brush. I have bad knees, and they just won't take that anymore. Not without a couple of surgeries, anyways, and I'm trying to hold off on those for a couple more years. Had to give up softball a few years ago.

Funny thing is I can hike all day with a heavy pack and it doesn't bother me much. But if there's a lot of steep grades or heavy brush, my knees tell me about it pretty quickly... :(

I think I'm now relegated to hiking in, finding a good spot, and settling in to wait. For that kind of hunting, I don't see the longer barrel or the weight being a big disadvantage.

Right now I'd have to say I'm leaning strongly towards the cowboy. Sounds like both are accurate, which was my first concern. I was also concerned about the balance of the heavier cowboy, but some of you are saying its much better than expected. The heavierer gun should dampen the recoil more than the guide gun will, and although I doubt I'll ever need it, having a 10-round tube magazine just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. :mrgreen:

JesterGrin_1, thanks a bunch for the 460-350-RF data. I think I'll have to add that one to my collection!

Many thanks!

Carl

[Chuck 100 yd]

HI!! I have both the 1895 SS and the 1895 Cowboy in .45-70. They both are about the same accuracy wise with cast bullets and if I hunt the 22" is the one I grab but if its target shooting/ plinking its the cowboy with its 26" barrel that I choose.
If I had to keep just one, It probably would be the cowboy.
Here is a target from 50yd. using cast bullets and trail boss plinking load.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c356/chuckleininger/IMG_1336.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c356/chuckleininger/IMG_1329.jpg
Top target 22" barrel, Bottom target 26" cowboy.

[ammohead]

Go for the cowboy. Heavy is relative. Yes if you walk around all day with 8 405grs in the mag and one in the chamber the cowboy does get a bit heavy. But empty it is under 8 lbs and with 3 or 4 rounds in the mag it is quite handy and balances nice. If you are doing more stand hunting than spot and stalk the longer site radius really makes it an accurate rifle for a 45-70. I think that the longer bbl makes recoil a bit more manageable too. And like women, I prefer long and elegant over short and loud.

ammohead

[MtGun44]

I have a SSGG. If I were planning to carry it a lot and need to swing it quickly, esp in
brushy areas, and need to shoot quickly (bear, close range hunting) the GG is the way
to go, esp since the expansion ratio is very high in this caliber so the benefits of barrel
length for increase velocity are minimized. Expect very little velocity gain with most
powders in the longer bbl.

Now - if you are planning to shoot long range for top accuracy with open sights - then the
extra sight radius would be of signicant value. The gun may 'hang' better for offhand
shooting if you do a lot of that. Gonna be heavy and unhandy in the brush. The octagon
bbl is a great attractant to many folks.

Of course, YOUR personal evaluation of the relative beauty is a key decision variable!

Bill

[jack19512]

I have the 1895 Cowboy and really like it. The weight or barrel length hasn't been a problem for me.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a Cowboy in 45/70 and a 444 in standard configuration. The Cowboy seems to be a lot lighter in 'heft.'

Loaded with three-4 rounds, it balances nicely.

If I was going to shoot open sights alone, I'd go the Cowboy for the longer sight radius, although, if I was going to hunt close country mostly the longer Bbl would be a PITA.

If I was going to use a scope sight or just hunt only with the rifle, I'd get a normal one or one of the new XR whatevers.

My Cowboy is brand new, but I reckon with the thin Bbl, it would bite with gonzo loads. I don't intend to hunt with it, but I will have to try a few full loads just to see what it's like.

Four Fingers.

[Dan Cash]

I have a 1895 CB and a stainless, ported guide gun. They only ge black powder and both shoot ok. The CB groups better and is better balanced. The guide gun is handier in a truck but one adapts and as a result, the guide gun is becoming a closet queen. I have recently set the Marlins aside for a Winchester 1895 that is 2 inches longer than the Marlin CB. They are about the same weight and the balance lets you carry either one as long as you want to.
Both long guns are up to the task of hard use and reliability and relatively long range punch (iron sights). The shorty is too much like shooting a pistol.

[saigafan2008]

Thanks again for all the replies!

I've settled on the Cowboy. I think it will suit my needs better.

And JesterGrin_1, I've got the Ranch Dogs 460-350-RF on order. Now I'll have both 45-70 Ranch Dog molds!

Carl

[JesterGrin_1]

Thanks again for all the replies!

I've settled on the Cowboy. I think it will suit my needs better.

And JesterGrin_1, I've got the Ranch Dogs 460-350-RF on order. Now I'll have both 45-70 Ranch Dog molds!

Carl

Great to hear. :castmine: Please post pictures and findings. :)

[Lloyd Smale]

I like them short. I just got my cowboy back from dave clement sand he cut it to 18 inch. theres not differnce in the accuracy of a short or long barrel. It just luck of the draw when it comes to individual guns. The only downside to a 18 in gun is they dont ballance right ahead of the lever for carry. They end up being a little but heavy. NOt enough to make it impossible but enough to notice. A 22 in gun would probably ballance best.

[saigafan2008]

I will, but it will be a while yet. I haven't finished saving up to buy the gun yet! :mrgreen:

Carl



Great to hear. :castmine: Please post pictures and findings. :)

[Potsy]

I faced the same decision about a year ago. Spent a lot of time researching it.

The guide gun is handy, the cowboy looks cool and is not nearly as heavy as I thought it would be, and the 22" model was a little of the best and worst of both worlds.
I never knew anyone who had any model that wouldn't shoot, and I knew there wouldn't be a world of difference in muzzle velocity per given barrel length with that cartridge.

Soooo....I wound up buying a Ruger #1.
Go Figure.

Now, I still need a good big bore levergun.

[JesterGrin_1]

Sell that single shot Bat and get a MARLIN :):drinks:


I faced the same decision about a year ago. Spent a lot of time researching it.

The guide gun is handy, the cowboy looks cool and is not nearly as heavy as I thought it would be, and the 22" model was a little of the best and worst of both worlds.
I never knew anyone who had any model that wouldn't shoot, and I knew there wouldn't be a world of difference in muzzle velocity per given barrel length with that cartridge.

Soooo....I wound up buying a Ruger #1.
Go Figure.

Now, I still need a good big bore levergun.

[6pt-sika]

I have a pretty decent selection of Marlin 1895's in 45-70 .

My first and still in my possesion is a 1895CB that I have shot the RD460-425GC bullet in quite a bit ! With a good stout load that rifle can be a handfull without the recoil pad !
I prefer the RD460-350GC or the Lyman 330 grain HP in the 1895CB .

I also have a 1978 vintage Marlin 1895 with the semi curved hard plastic buttplate . This one is also a handfull with the 425 grainer loaded up !

I have a 1895XLR that is jacketed rubber tipped bullets only , but would most likely be good for cast should someone wish to shoot them in theirs !

I have a still NIB standard Model 1895 that will either be sold soon or be fed a diet of cast bullets so I cannot make a call on this variation .

Last but not least I have a PAIR of 1895G's . The first is a ported one that I bought LNIB and I shoot only jacketed in it so far (but that may change) . My other 1895G is a non ported one . I loaded it up last year for the first time with my stout RD460-425GC load and went to the range . With that rifle and a 4x Leupold I was able to shoot exceptional groups ! one hole at 50 yards and easily inside 1.5" at 100 yards . The recoil pad on that rifle easily dampens any recoil I could generate with my stout load !

Now bear in mind I like all the rifles mentioned . However for me and 45-70 stomper loads I think the 1895G is the way to go !
For more medium to mild loads I would tend to go with the 1895CB .

[JesterGrin_1]

6pt-Sika I thought you were on vaction? I do hope you had fun. :)

And for an Update I put in an order for some STARLINE Brass for my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 and plan to load those up with the RD460-425Gr with the H-322. Lets see what we can find out? I should be able to throw some lead Next weekend on the 16th or 17th. :)

I will keep the light bunny load of the RD460-350Gr in my Remington Brass that I use H-322 in. :) No they are not light just trying to be bunny funny lol. :)

[saigafan2008]

Where did you find Starline 45-70 brass? I've been looking online for the last couple of weeks and haven't found any...

Carl

[JesterGrin_1]

Where did you find Starline 45-70 brass? I've been looking online for the last couple of weeks and haven't found any...

Carl

I am confused here? Is this a loaded question? At any rate I just purchased them online direct from STARLINE http://www.starlinebrass.com/ You may wish to give them a call to see if they may have any. But if not they will have them soon. They Make them lol. :):castmine:

I put my order in on May 6th and will have them by May 9th.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-Sika I thought you were on vaction? I do hope you had fun. :)



I'm leaving may 11th and won't be back until june 29th !

However I am taking a laptop and they have WiFi in my hotel [smilie=1:

[Irascible]

Thanks again for all the replies!

I've settled on the Cowboy. I think it will suit my needs better.

And JesterGrin_1, I've got the Ranch Dogs 460-350-RF on order. Now I'll have both 45-70 Ranch Dog molds!

Carl

Good, you should always pick the gun which appeals most to you.
The longer barrel should be more accurate with open sights. For scope use, it won't matter much.
I find the Cowboy light, not heavy.
I shortened my barrel to 24" just to match my other Cowboy models.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Good, you should always pick the gun which appeals most to you.
The longer barrel should be more accurate with open sights. For scope use, it won't matter much.
I find the Cowboy light, not heavy.
I shortened my barrel to 24" just to match my other Cowboy models.

Thats the good thing about the cowboy, you can always lop the barrell if you feel so inclined. Adding a bit of length to a guide gun to counter noise, etc ain't so easy. Welcome to the cowboy club.
Four Fingers

[Whit Spurzon]

Marlins, especially 45-70s tend to multiply.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/The_Collection.jpg

I don't think you can go wrong with either the GG or the CB. If you really can't decide you can buy an LTD III - a CB with the shorter barrel.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/1895ltdiiiprofile.jpg

I had to pay a ransom for mine, almost what a GG & CB combined cost... but I really like it...

The accuracy of all them is very good. All LOVE the Ranch Dog bullet too.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/50yard1895gs405gtarget.jpg

50 yard target with 405 grain commercial cast bullets shot open sights with my GG

I'd buy the first one you come across and start saving for the next one :)

[Ole]

A good practice load that works well in my .450 Marlin Guide Gun is 20 grains of Alliant 2400 with 1/2 a grain of poly fill with the 425gr RD bullet. I made these up for a low recoil practice load with no gas check. Just a short range plinking round.

It chronographs about 1240-1250 out of my guide gun and barely kicks at all. I was shooting these with my buddy at the range a few weeks ago and he made the comment that it sounded like someone was hitting the dirt berm behind the targets with a baseball bat.

[Sprue]

I'm also a fan of a light-load plinking round, I also use it for hunting them white tails.

It hasn't been chrony'd but I would think its around 13-1400 fps. This is an all day shooter being easy on the shoulder, brass, gun, scope as well as low powder consumption.

It'll make a clean hole through a 1 gallon laundry detergent jug filled with water at 100 yrd and barely move the jug. I use my cast plain WW's in a Lee 457-340-RF over 15 gr of Unique. Its a very accurate load @ 100 yrds. I don't need anything more powerful, I'm content with a 100 yrd load. I figure this load would easily & fully penetrate a deer at the said distance. I'll report back next season.

Buy whater ever feels right in your hands, but the GG is lots of fun & easy to tote.

[parkergunz]

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv131/parkergunz/scan0001.jpg

This is out of my 1895CB. Lyman 457193, WW Brass, CCI BR2, SPG Lube, 27 gr 5744. I00 yards iron sights.

[45r]

If it were me I'd get one with the Pac recoil pad,XLR or New SBL.The others aren't bad with 5744 loads but crank up the FPS with 400 to 500 grainers and you'll want a pac pad.

[WHITETAIL]

2008, My vote is for the Cowboy!:castmine:

[saigafan2008]

When I was looking online last week everyone was out, and I thought for sure Starline said they were out. Guess I misread it. :oops: I've been pulling 16 hour days for several weeks and I don't think I'm firing on all cylinders, if you catch my drift...


I am confused here? Is this a loaded question? At any rate I just purchased them online direct from STARLINE http://www.starlinebrass.com/ You may wish to give them a call to see if they may have any. But if not they will have them soon. They Make them lol. :):castmine:

I put my order in on May 6th and will have them by May 9th.

[saigafan2008]

Thanks again for all the feedback, and special thanks for the light load data. I've definitely decided on the cowboy. Just need to save up the money first!

Thanks,

Carl

[6pt-sika]

Thanks again for all the feedback, and special thanks for the light load data. I've definitely decided on the cowboy. Just need to save up the money first!

Thanks,

Carl

The 1895CB is a fine rifle !

Now if I were you and wanted to shoot ass stomper loads in it with the RD 460-425GC bullet I'd get a slip on recoil pad for shooting from the bench and sighting in ! Then when I carried it hunting I would remove the pad !

[stubshaft]

A good practice load that works well in my .450 Marlin Guide Gun is 20 grains of Alliant 2400 with 1/2 a grain of poly fill with the 425gr RD bullet. I made these up for a low recoil practice load with no gas check. Just a short range plinking round.

It chronographs about 1240-1250 out of my guide gun and barely kicks at all. I was shooting these with my buddy at the range a few weeks ago and he made the comment that it sounded like someone was hitting the dirt berm behind the targets with a baseball bat.

I use almost the same load except I use 23.5 of 2400. As far as plinking loads go these exceed the original trapdoor loads and work great on hogs!

[Stillwater]

I have two Marlin 1895's...

The first is one of the last 1895 CB's that was drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. The 26" barrel doesn't phase me at all. I grew up carrying long barreled rifles, since I was a little kid.

The second Marlin 1895 I just bought is an modern 1895 iteration, that I didn't know Marlin made. This 1895 rifle is a LTD IV with a half-ocagonal, halr-round barrel on it.

When I saw the rifle, it surprised me, since I didn't know the modern 1895 with the half-octagonal, half-round barreled rifle was ever offered.

It shows you how much I know doesn't it? This rifle, while used, is in better than 99% condition. It may have been handled a little, but it was never fired.

I looked at the price tag, expecting a deep pocket surprise. Wonder of wonders, the price was only $425.00. I haggled the price down to $400.00, paid the man, and now it is mine.

There is one guy that wants this rifle so bad, that his tounge is hanging out for it. Anybody know why that is? Is this 1895 Marlin, considered a collector firearm?

I won't sell the rifle, because I bought it for the half-octagonal, half-round barrel. I just like it that way.

Bill

[JesterGrin_1]

Let me think well it is a $1000.oo gun if it is the model that has been engraved on the receiver? If not around $750.oo to $800.oo. And from what I can remember they only made 2500 of them in 2000. But I am sure others might know a bit more.

So yes many will drool over that rifle lol.

But you have one heck of a rifle to be proud of. :)

[Stillwater]

Let me think well it is a $1000.oo gun if it is the model that has been engraved on the receiver? If not around $750.00 to $800.00. And from what I can remember they only made 2500 of them in 2000. But I am sure others might know a bit more.

So yes many will drool over that rifle lol.

But you have one heck of a rifle to be proud of. :)

This rifle has the plain receiver...

$750.00 - $800.00, thats nice... Thank you for getting back to me so quickly...!

Bill

[JesterGrin_1]

Very welcome. :)

[Stillwater]

Very welcome. :)

My wife, the great lady she is, was born in San Antonio...

Bill