Jail time!

[leadman]

Several weeks ago an individual posted an ad on Backpage that he worked in "a big box store that sells ammo". He said he would buy ammo from the store and resell it to you. He said he had access to the ammo 'cuz he was one that was stocking it on the shelves.He would take orders for the ammo you wanted also.

Guess what??!!

This morning he posted on Backpage that he had been arrested by the ATF for doing this. This was about 10:30 this morning. the ad is now gone.

I hope he made alot of money from the ammo so he can pay his lawyer. He didn't say if he lost his job, but I wouldn't bet he keeps it.

[captaint]

Bummer. So what was it exactly that he did that was illegal? Selling ammo w/o a license? Gotta watch out for them Feds and their rooles. Hope he's not looking at a felony conviction. Mike

[mold maker]

I've got a feeling this isn't the only guy doing it. If there's money to be made, someone will have their hand out.
With ammo in such short supply, and prices at all time highs, the temptation is just to much.

[softpoint]

Something fishy, Wonder if he was STEALING the ammo?

[Trey45]

Something fishy, Wonder if he was STEALING the ammo?

You beat me to it. I know of no license restrictions for selling ammo.

[Maximilian225]

License is required only if you manufacture it.
Something Fishy for sure.

-Max

[Bret4207]

You beat me to it. I know of no license restrictions for selling ammo.

Maybe not licensing, but there are restrictions on selling ammo to minors and felons I believe. It may also come under the "straw purchase" area.

[cheese1566]

I would bet that if he was working for a "Bigbox" that he was moving it out the back door in a "bigbox". And then selling the stolen goods.

[EOD3]

If he was paying for it, there is NO WAY the store loss prevention folks could miss it. I wouldn't care to accuse anyone of wrongdoing without something a lot more concrete to go on.

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

I know of one that I reported that was selling on the net and stealing from the store he worked for and shipping it from the store on their dime too. He was in another state and he made a coment one day about his job so I called them and gave them a list of stuff that was and had been listed. They knew it was going on but hadnt been able to prove anything until I gave them a call.

[leadman]

I don't think he was stealing it, but I believe he was using his employee discount.

He stated in his post today the ATF told him he had to have an FFL to sell ammo over a period of time for a profit.
I quess he was considered to be running a business, especially since he was taking orders.

[Nora]

Could be to that since he was selling for profit with out a state tax # they will get him for tax evasion as well. Even if he paid tax for it first, the resale for profit would by law require it to be re taxed. Being a firearms related item maybe the ATF just got to him first.

[Tom Herman]

The first rule if you're doing something that's not Kosher (other than not doing it!) is to keep your mouth shut and not draw attention to yourself...
Second, to be in charge of stocking ammo and deliberately interfering with its distribution (by buying a significant quantity of a scarce item before it is available to the general public) is a violation of conflict of interest.
The stupid schmuck screwed everyone over and he got his just desserts.
Good riddance to him, just like the folks that are hoarding ammo, primers, and powder to gouge the rest of us.

Happy Shootin! -Tom

[Lloyd Smale]

just goes to show you that you should watch what you post. EVEN HERE!

[HeavyMetal]

If he's able to post he's not in the "can".

That in itself is a sad event!

I honestly wonder if we succeed in teaching our kids the difference between "right and wrong"?

In this case someone has failed. Although I never heard anything about "conflict of interest" until I was much older it was never an issue until I got into the sales end of employement.

I have, since then, had several conversations with my kids about honesty and conflict of interest.

I hope they were listening.

Sadly the "Make a Buck at any cost" crowd really seem to be driving younger people these days. Guess I shouldn't be surprised that this young man jumped on an "oppertunity".

I don't think "big Brother" needs to be involved but perhaps larger companies should consider class's in other subjects besides sexual harreassment.

[shooterg]

Now if he was passing it on to shooting club buddies at his cost, he'd be legal ?

[HeavyMetal]

Shooterg:

He might be legal if passing it on but he's still "interfering" with his employer's business which is the conflict of interest part.

If the "hero" in our story wants to sell ammo he needs to make his move and open a store front and compete directly with his "previous" employer.

If he wants to pass this ammo to his buds at the local gun club the "correct" way to do this is to inform them of delivery days and stocking times so they can be on site to make the purchase themselves.

Since most wal marts will tell you when they have stock arriving, the local one here has volenteered this info to me when I asked about ammo, our "hero" would not be guilty of insider trading.

Anything else is simple "profiteering".

[MT Gianni]

Now if he was passing it on to shooting club buddies at his cost, he'd be legal ?

Perhaps in the sense of a "group buy". In a regular matter of "I will buy this for $X and sell it to you for the same $". often enough to be percieved as a regular business, he needs a business license.
People were guessing Wal-Mart but it could as easy been another big box store, ala Cabela's, Gander MT, etc.

[Maximilian225]

He stated in his post today the ATF told him he had to have an FFL to sell ammo over a period of time for a profit.


There's something else going on here. I don't believe the ATF is even involved.

Straight from the 18 USC 921 from the ATF website


[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and (16), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.141(d)]

(A4) What kinds of ammunition are covered by the GCA?

Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.

Items NOT covered include blank ammunition, tear gas ammunition, pellets and nonmetallic shotgun hulls without primers.

Generally, no records are required for ammunition transactions. However, information about the disposition of armor piercing ammunition is required to be entered into a record by importers, manufacturers, and collectors.

A license is not required for dealers in ammunition only.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17) and 922(b)(5), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.125]

-Max

[James Wisner]

Some States REQUIRE that you have a Ammo Liscense to sell.

Washington is one of them.

We have a State Handgun, Longgun and then the Ammo Liscense, for all three it is like $ 125 for three years, it is needed for wholesale and retail busniess's.

This is maybe what he got in trouble for and the state simply let ATF figure out the issue.

James Wisner

[PatMarlin]

just goes to show you that you should watch what you post. EVEN HERE!

And that's everywhere on the net and email. It is a record for all to find.

Now if you are not doing anything illegal, then there's no worries. But what if something now legal, becomes illegal?.

Nothing to worry about really, unless you live in a country that is turning it's honest citizens into criminals ..:roll:

[softpoint]

Maximillian 225,
I believe you hit the nail on the head ! I wasn't going to argue with anyone, because a lot of people believe you have to have a license to sell ammo. You do not. I owned a public shooting range for several years, It was run by several different people over the course of that time. Only one had an FFL, All sold ammo over the counter. Now, you are supposed to collect state sales tax on ammo here in Texas. And, if you sold enough ammo to get the state tax people interested in you, and you didn't pay it, they would make it hard for you to run your buisiness.
Go to jail? I 'd think not. First, unless you attempt to defraud someone, you cannot be locked up for owing a debt. And yes, its' sometimes done over child support, but that falls under different ordinances.
I still maintain that all the story hasn't been told here, Wouldn't you think?:drinks:

[shooterg]

In re one of the comments above - I do not approve of the guy's ethics, just meant that if he had been passing it on at cost, he was probably not in deep legal doo doo !

[leadman]

I wonder if the ATF had a problem with what the guy was doing and not paying the excise tax?
When I called the ATF about selling cast boolits they told me I didn't need a license, but to be sure to pay the taxes.

The guy didn't say, but I wonder if he was also buying and selling firearms. I'll watch the paper here and see what, if anything comes up.

The guy stated he had spent the night with the ATF and was being charged and not in jail yet.
When I went back to find the post about 1 1/2 hours later it was gone. Maybe he talked to a lawyer by then?

[HeavyMetal]

Might have gotten a clue to this "mistery" last night when I was at Wal Mart.

Saw two NEW signs up on the ammo rack, first one was a limit of six box's of ammo per purchase. The second was a very LARGE sign stating you must be 21 to purchase pistol ammo.

If the employee at Wal Mart was buying the pistol ammo, reselling for a profit or not, and was under 21, as most of them are, here's the Federal Beef and the possible reason the ATF was involved.

[leadman]

Could be, or he was selling it to persons under 21.

[LWSTARKS]

Let's take this down another road...

What if the guy is telling a lie. What if he was working at walmart and selling ammo as he said. Or taking orders to sell ammo. If his boss or some other concerned citizen mentioned it to walmart that he was doing this, they could have fired him. Now to save face, and maybe to try to have some people sympathetic towards him, has concocted this story that the ATF held him overnight, and telling him that they are going to charge him for dealing ammo w/o a license.

I don't know what happened, but there seems to be a lot of questions that don't make any sense.

[Maximilian225]

Let's take this down another road...

What if the guy is telling a lie. What if he was working at walmart and selling ammo as he said. Or taking orders to sell ammo. If his boss or some other concerned citizen mentioned it to walmart that he was doing this, they could have fired him. Now to save face, and maybe to try to have some people sympathetic towards him, has concocted this story that the ATF held him overnight, and telling him that they are going to charge him for dealing ammo w/o a license.

I don't know what happened, but there seems to be a lot of questions that don't make any sense.

LWStarks Welcome to the worlds greatest natural resource of knowledge of all things Shiny, Silver, Heavy, and having an atomic number of 82.:mrgreen:

I think you have scored a giant bullseye as to what is really going on. Surest way to stop more orders is to make the buyers think they could get in trouble with ATF.

-Max

[Bret4207]

Might have gotten a clue to this "mistery" last night when I was at Wal Mart.

Saw two NEW signs up on the ammo rack, first one was a limit of six box's of ammo per purchase. The second was a very LARGE sign stating you must be 21 to purchase pistol ammo.

If the employee at Wal Mart was buying the pistol ammo, reselling for a profit or not, and was under 21, as most of them are, here's the Federal Beef and the possible reason the ATF was involved.

Our local Walmart has a sign saying you must be 21 to purchase ammo because it's a Federal Law. Both Dan and myself have questioned the employees about this non-existent law. The employees are nice old folks that have no clue. I'm pretty sure it's store policy. They think you have to have a pistol permit to buy pistol ammo too.
Stupid.

[LWSTARKS]

Thanks for the welcome