Smelting, Melting, Reducing or Cleaning

[jimkim]

What is the correct term for heating and removing the unwanted metals and debris from your alloy or scrap? I usually say smelting. I use it as a synonym for cleaning dirt, copper, zinc, steel, and other impurities from my melt.

This was posted on another site.

Gentlemen,
I hate being pedantic almost as much as I dislike the misuse of technical terms.
Smelting is a term that refers to a chemical reaction mediated by heat whereby a pure metal is extracted from its ore (which is an oxide).
Flux is indeed used during that process to remove the rock which is also part of the ore.
What is being referred to here is simply melting the wheel weight (or other) alloy and removing the impurities(dirt etc.) using flux.
Sorry,I don't mean any offense.
I am following this thread because I'm planning on casting my own as well.

I use the term smelting because that is what is in my book.

[leftiye]

I use the term smelting because everyone else does. More correct would be to call it melting, cleaning and pouring into ingots, but that's no fun.

[Trey45]

I use rendering as the term. I'm going to render down some ww and pour ingots.

[Jon K]

Rendering, Recycling, Reforming wheelweights into a uaseable form.

Lead is the most recycled material.

Jon

[mold maker]

If your offended by our use of the word "SMELTING" , what are you doing on the CAST BOOLITS forum?
I take it, that you fully understand what we are talking about, when we call it SMELTING. If this were, an English class at Harvard, it would be proper to call our use of these words to our attention.
This however, is a place where the loose use of the English language, is not only tolerated, it is sometimes enjoyed.
The only issue we strictly adhere to is safety.

[jimkim]

I'm not offended by the term. I use it myself. I was quoting someone else who was scolding us on our incorrect use of the word. He likes to correct people. He call's himself "DaTeacha". Sorry this is wrong he goes by "DocAitch".




This was posted on another site.


I use the term smelting because that is what is in my book.

[captaint]

I'm with Leftiye - this is supposed to be, and is fun. Period. We all know what we mean when we use smelting. Smelting, smelting, smelting. There. Soon I'm going to start using i instead of I. We'll start some stuff then Enjoy, all Mike

[gon2shoot]

The last batch of WW I did was covered with grease, tobbaco juice, dog urine, etc.
I'll promise ya, when she started to heat up, it smelt bad.
The wife even smelt it in the house.

So I sure enough musta been smelting.

[captaint]

No, as I understood it, jimkim wasn't being critical and I was just funnin anyway. I really enjoy this website.

[theperfessor]

Gotta watch the term smelting, in some parts of the country it means your out trying to catch little fish...or so I've been told.

[high standard 40]

I'm sure we've all dealt
with someone who fealt
that using the word smelt.
was wrong.
With correctness they pelt,
but none of us have knelt.

.......I SMELT.:-D

[sqlbullet]

The definition of a term is pretty much whatever a given society uses it for. Hence, smelting is completely valid here.

Technically, I woud think refining clearly describes to any what is going on. A raw material is being refined into a more pure version.

I get my dander up over the use of fumes. Fumes technically come from molten metal. Vapors come off gasoline, alcohol and other solvents.

But it is really rather petty to argue about such things when the definition withing a given society is clear. When in Rome....

[runfiverun]

jim it's "called" smelting i'm sure teach told you smelting was the getting lead from the ore.
it is truly that.
but i ain't sayin removing clips and oxides from my ww's everytime i wanna talk about it.
besides that i know teach don't cast.

[jimkim]

That's what I call it. From what I have read smelting is "the process of separating metals from non-metallic components or other metals. " I think that is just vague enough to include separating metals from contaminants. I don't think it just pertains to ore. Five I know he doesn't. I'm not sure he actually loads. It just gets a little old watching people(including me) get called out by a "book expert".

Ok RicinYakima posted this on the CBA. "Smelting is the correct term for processing wheelweights into ingots. The raw material has not only lead, lead oxides, tin, tin oxides, antimony, antimony oxides, arsenic, iron, copper, and various other metals.

This material is heated to a temperature only needed to liquify the three metals we are looking for, lead, tin and antimony. We add carbon (the flux) or a carbon acting chemical to reduce (remove the bound oxygen) for our desired end product to reduce loss of material. Higher melting metals, salts and minerals are removed. Then the ingots are cast."

This makes sense to me. What say you?

[Bent Ramrod]

Actually, "roasting" is the process by which metallic sulfides are converted to metallic oxides by heating them in air and driving off the sulfur as sulfur dioxide. "Smelting" is the process where the metallic oxides are reduced (usually with carbon) to the metals. A "smelter" is a plant which can do both operations at once, if necessary, but it definitely does the second operation. Generally, it is not economically feasible to go directly from sulfide ores to metals.

But I see no problem with calling removing the debris and oxidized portions from lead by melting "smelting." You have to call it something, and "cleaning" is too generic. "Rendering" usually implies turning a solid fat to a semisolid fat or liquid oil. Actually, the occasional use of the word "ingotizing" on this Board probably covers the operation as well as any other descriptor.

[Leadforbrains]

If smelting is removing metal from raw ore by using heat then I am indeed smelting as range lead and wheel weights are my raw ore.

[SciFiJim]

from dictionary.com


smelt
1   /smɛlt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [smelt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to fuse or melt (ore) in order to separate the metal contained.
2. to obtain or refine (metal) in this way.

This is exactly what we do when we take a bucket of WWs, which is not usable in the form that we receive them. We then melt this "ore" to obtain the refined metal, which we then normally cast into ingots to be used later.

I think smelting is the correct term.

[timkelley]

I don't care if we call it "Fred" as long as we all know what process we are talking about.
Some folks just take all the fun out of life.:(

[jimkim]

I still kinda like gittin-dee-doodoo-owta-dee-lead.

[BeeMan]

Sticking to 'book correct' is fine if it helps us define and solve problems and ultimately increase our enjoyment of the silver stream hobby. If it is to police the ranks for correctness, I prefer to not hear from the 'experts.'

I have no problem with smelt per SciFiJim but I know what render means too.

What ever you call it, I've got a bucket waiting to be done.:-D

BeeMan

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Tell "Da Teacher" to peddel his politically correct drivil to someone else, we Ain't into it. If it doesn't concern Safety, A little fun should be had by all. This is not Harvard and I ain't no school boy.

[Nora]

Hate to break it to every one. But, SMELTING is the extraction of small fish from the waters around the Duluth MN area using a net. Mmmmmm tasty! :mrgreen:

[jimkim]

I've made a bad mistake. It wasn't Da Teacha that posted that it was DocAitch. I had just read another post by Da Teacha and typed his name by mistake. I have sice gone back and apologized to Da Teacha. Not only do I use incorrect terms, I also credit the wrong people for the offensive posts. I gotta quit sniffing lead fumes.
DocAitch says this is his last post on this subject.


I didn't mean for this to become a urinating contest, it just pains me to see a term misused.I feel embarrassed
So this is my last shot.
From a quick search of the smelting process, the following emerges:
Smelting is a chemical process that involves "reduction" where oxides (or sulfides) of lead (or other metals) are caused to give up their oxygen (or sulfur) to another compound (carbon usually for oxygen). Flux is used to remove the other substances (rock, other metals) etc).
What makes me sure that the wheel weight melting process is not smelting is that it takes place at about the melting point of lead ~621 deg F.(give or take a few hundred degrees), where as smelting takes place at about 1900 deg F in the one process that I read which contained a number. It also uses a blast furnace as one type of smelter.
I will grant that there are oxides of lead in wheel weights or any exposed lead surface, I am willing to bet $100 cash that those oxides are part of the stuff that is scooped off with the steel clips.
Ask a metallurgist familiar with the process of smelting. Even respected experts have been known to be wrong.

This was my response.

It's not a urinating contest. I'm just ignoring your arguments and having some fun with you at your own expense. If I suddenly start calling it by a strange term that no one knows then I'll fail to communicate with my fellow booliteers. The English language is beautiful in that it is a living language. It evolves and words take on new meanings.
__________________

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Some of the Scientist that seem to have taken up this hobby , don't get it. If we needed a Metalurgest to figure out what we are doing, this casting CB's would be cost prohibitive for most folks.
There are a few folks that would argue semantics until the cow's come home. They need to learn how to have a little fun. He can call it what ever he likes, I will do the same, only difference is I don't have a bone to pick about what he calls "IT".

[Leadforbrains]

JimKim that fellow looks as if he has a need to better himself by correcting others. Folks like that are a PITA on public forums and should be ignored. I will continue to use the term smelting and Boolit. The self proclaimed brainiacs of this world can just go sit in a corner and gnash their teeth over it

[Sensai]

Don't matter whatcha call it, it wont come anyway! Just had to throw that in, it was one of my Gandpa's favorite saying. In my humble opinion, language is to facilitate communications and as long as we're communicating we must be doing it right.

[Trey45]

Whatever you call it, smelting, rendering, melting, ingotizing, purifying, decontaminating, homogenizing, or whatever,


I call it FUN!

[smilie=w:

[jimkim]

Whatever you call it, smelting, rendering, melting, ingotizing, purifying, decontaminating, homogenizing, or whatever,


I call it FUN!

[smilie=w:

I love it too. I have had people come over and ask me "is that silver". lol I wish! To me it is a beautiful thing.