Another reloading error and another reloading rule

[joeb33050]

Wednesday, April 29, 2009, the cast bullet cartridges for the Savage Striker and Competitor pistols were obviously loaded too fast, recoil was much higher than usual. I fired the first, then a second cartridge to see if the first was a fluke, in both pistols.
The powder charge for each was 10 grains more than planned. The cause was that my powder scale was set 10 grains higher than it should have been. Thus a 12.5-grain charge became a 22.5-grain wrong charge, and a 16-grain charge became a 26-grain wrong charge.
I thought the scale was set at 12.5, it was set at 22.5. Then setting for 16, I set the scale for 26-in error.
About 18 years ago I had my first reloading error resulting in my blowing up a NEF Handi-Rifle and blowing off a lot of my trigger finger. It was my fault, I was in too much of a hurry while reloading. This was my only reloading error in 49 years of reloading mostly cast bullets, until last Wednesday.
I don’t know why this last error happened and wonder if it has to do with my age, I’m 71.
At an Old Colony match Marlin Bassett asked me about all the details of my first accident; mentioned that he had had a/some problems, and said that if it happened to him again he’d quit the game. I’m not the only one.
Another reloading rule
Each time I use the scale, I will put it on zero, check the zero, then set the scale to the desired weight. Means that if I’m going to load 13, 14 and 15 grains of a powder, I’ll set the scale to zero and zero it EACH time I set the scale.

[Trey45]

Sir,
Excellent adivce on resetting zero before weighing charges! Thankfully nothing serious happened and you're here to tell us about it. I'm relatively new to reloading and casting, this is a perfect example of why I read this forum EVERY DAY, to learn as much as I can from others.

[felix]

Amen, Joe! The older we get, the harder it is to decipher **** from shine-ola. Unfortunately, the girls (scales) do get prettier at closing time. ... felix

[atr]

thats a good rule to follow....I would like to add that only the one powder you are using be on the loading bench.
I'm glad you were not injured

[Big Boomer]

joeb33050: Sorry both accidents happened. We can't be too careful. Yet if we learn from our and others' mistakes, it is a relatively safe hobby. Glad there were no consequences with the second set of errors and that the first was no worse than it was. Like you, I'm getting older - I'm 69. Too, like you, I've now got enough sense to second guess myself and verify, even if I have to do it two or three times. God bless! 'Tuck

[Dale53]

Joe;
You have mentioned before that you had problems reading the micrometer on various powder measures. It may be that you have bit of dislexia. I have had some serious vision problems in my right eye and I notice that with mostly having to use one eye, that I have to exercise more care simply because I can't see as well with only one eye working well.

However, there is a solution for the powder scales. Several years ago I purchased an RCBS digital scale. It's reading LCD has large lettters and it is extremely easy to read. It is also quite accurate. You might want to try that before you think about "bowing out".

Dale53

[swheeler]

JoeB; close call and glad you are ok! Not so many years ago I sold my RCBS 1010 and bought a new 505, after many years of using the 1010 it was just too difficult to read the numbers on the thumb drum scale. I always check zero on my scale, note it and say it out loud, my wife has asked many times whom I'm talking to, that CRS can be bad ****!

[archmaker]

Thanks for the story. It has made me realize that I need to re-evaluate the "habits" that I have for making sure I am doing things safe.

I have always started at zero, because my reloading area serves several functions besides reloading so I have to pack away my scale and set it up before I start.

But I think I will make it a new "habit" to evaluate my reloading process at least once a year from now on. Just so I do not get to comfortable with my process.

And continue to read this board.

Also I am glad to hear that you were not harmed, or that your gun wasn't either.

[Throckmorton]

Very glad that you were not hurt this time,and that you had the sense to stop when someething did not seem right.
Setting the scale to zero sounds like a good idea,but still could be mis read,I'd also suggest an eloctronic,even if just used to verify the beam scale.We do this with one of those small 'pocket' scales,but they are not easy to read,and you must remember to set the mode to 'grains'..it's the 'mode' that is hard to read for my weak eyes,so I'd with a dedicated powder measure if money allowed.

A lesson for us all there,to be even more diligint than we think wer'e being.

[Springfield]

Whenever I am setting up a new bullet and weigh the charges, I always double it to check. If I am running a 12 grain charge, after I get it set right I will set the scale to 24 and measure 2 charges. If it is still good I will reset and measure 3 charges. Makes it very difficult to get it wrong. Haven't blown up anything yet.

[felix]

That is my technique, but I use the multiplier suited to make 10 throws fit within 500 grains which is the scale limit. ... felix

[wiljen]

I use two scales - and RCBS 505 and an electronic to check the weights. If they dont agree - time to see why.

[.45Cole]

Maybe my method?
When done charging a run of cases, I reset and "tare" the pan out and then reset the charge bar (weight) and pour a case of powder back into the scale to check and make sure that the scale was readng correct and the charge weight of the batch is correct. Balance scale.

[S.R.Custom]

Another good reason to only use powders that almost fill up the case with the desired charge.

[Rocky Raab]

Joe, I made the very same error more than 30 years ago. Luckily, though, I caught mine before shooting any. I was putting the balance scale away when I happened to look at the 10-grain poise and went pale when I saw that it was in the wrong notch. I pulled one of the 50 rounds. Sure enough, ten grains too much powder.

I'll STRONGLY second the digital scale suggestion. There are those who say that digital scales aren't quite as accurate as a balance beam. Well, maybe, but they sure as heck are better than ten grains off!

[shooterg]

Thirds on the get a digital to check with - and if you use a digital, get a beam scale to check that with ! Worst I ever did was pop some primers trying for too much gofast, but stuff can happen anytime to anybody. Glad you're still in the game.

[MtGun44]

Went digital a few years back.

Push the "zero" button, then weigh. No way to get off 10gr like with a mech scale.

In industry, this is called a 'human factors accident', and we try to make it less likely that
normal human errors will result in bad products or injury. Fortunately, your 'bad product'
did not result in injury. However, we all need to do whatever it takes to try to make
normal human errors harder to cause a serious outcome. Frankly, old fashioned scales
are a human factors accident waiting to happen.

Nowdays you pretty much can't crash an airplane with doing at least 2 and normally 3
things wrong - the systems/procedures are set up to try to compensate for the fact that we
are ALL human and we WILL make mistakes. That is the way to think about your reloading
practices. Try to set up a routine, and always follow it, that will permit you to detect your
errors before they become hidden and can cause damage or injury.

For example, my biggest concern is a double charge if fast pistol powder in a progressive.
I have a light set up so I can look at each powder charge and think about it a second just
before I put the boolit on top.

Glad you are safe!

Bill

[JW6108]

There was a similar issue back in March at the range where I usually shoot. A guy down the line from me had a Springfield XD .45 let go on him. A section of the frame about the size of your thumb on the right side above the trigger was blown off, parts rattling around inside, locked halfway open, etc. I ran into him a couple of weeks later and he said that his load of whatever he was using was supposed to be 4.0 grains, so he set his measure with the 0-5 side of the scale; he didn't notice that the set weight on the left side of the balance had jumped over on to the 5 grain stop, so he wound up with 4 + 5 grains. I think his wallet was hurt getting that squared away with Springfield, but that was all. Lucky.

Any more, I am thinking digital is the way to go.

[Recluse]

I use two scales - and RCBS 505 and an electronic to check the weights. If they dont agree - time to see why.

Same here.

I'm still using the same RCBS 5-0-2 scale I've used for over twenty years. On new loads or new powders I haven't used before, I back up the first scale with my little Lee Safety Scale. It's slow, but it is still deadly accurate and I trust it 100%.

Just not sure I trust digital scales yet. . . Guess I can back them up with the beam scales.

:coffee:

[sharps 4570]

Joe glad it was not any worse. I set myself a rule load because i want to not because i have too. If i feel out of sort i stay out of my reloading room. I always start from the beginning every time.

[Tomhorn]

I also went to a digital electronic scale several years ago. Much easier to read and no way to be off ten grains if you zero it each session. I still keep my mechanical scale handy to cross check scales and for backup if the battery fails in the digital.

[C.F.Plinker]

My method is a little different yet. When I get ready to check the powder measure I put the empty pan on the scale, set it to zero and use the screw on the base to zero everything out. I measure multiple charges so that the total weight is between 50 and 100 grains. I set the scale to that amount and weigh the same amount of check weights. I will fine tune the adjusting screw if necessary. Then I weigh out the correct number of charges and adjust the powder measure if necessary.

I second the ideas of having only one powder on the bench at a time and of having a light shining down in the case of the progressive press. For me it is at station two. I want to see an empty case before I pull the handle and a charged case after I am done. This allows me to inspect for both squibs and for charging an already charged case. I use a little gooseneck LED light and can move it so it shines down in station 3 when I want to double check just to be sure. I drilled a 1/2 inch hole between stations two and three on one toolhead for shining the light into tall cases.

[handyrandyrc]

I got out for this very reason. My wife and I have seen too many blown up rifles to make us comfortable anymore.

[captaint]

Joe, really glad you're OK. All good suggestions here. You will pick & choose. One thing though, Plus whatever on the digital scales. They are not even that much $ and they're very accurate & easy to use. Happy day. Mike

[Kraschenbirn]

Yeah, years ago I (inadvertently) tried to blow up a Contender in .30-30 in exactly the same manner...bumped the beam weight over one notch and didn't notice it. Now, there's a Mini-Maglite hanging right beside my old RCBS 10-10...very handy for reading the .1 grain graduations on the fine adjustment drum and the powder level of *EVERY* case is checked visually before the loading block is moved over to the press to seat boolits.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Glad you are ok Joe. Having blown one myself, and lucky enough not to loose anything other than a little feeling in my thumb for a coouple of weeks, and a lot of embarassment, I now adhere to the following: If the charge does not fill at least half the case, I weigh all loaded rounds for consistancy. I always check the digital with the old lyman, and or visa versa befor charging cases. On fast powder loads, l always weigh all of the finished loads for consistancy. (key here is to use all the same head stamps). It is extra work, but don't want to ruin another rifle, and definately don't want to ruin me any more than I alreald have.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Rocky Raab]

Here's an extremely easy and darn near idiot-proof way to check a balance beam scale.

If your desired powder charge is about 40 grains, just drop a 40-gr bullet into the pan. If it gets close to balance, you have the poise weights set correctly. Simple.

I used to have a bunch of little "check weights" that were no way as deadnuts accurate as certified check weights. There were small pieces of brass and steel, each labeled with an "8" or a "15". Then there were bullets, with "35" or "40" or "52" or "60" written on them in ink.

These things don't have to be laboratory accurate - this is only reloading, people. But a few seconds is all it takes to drop in a weight that's close to what you want to doublecheck your setting.

[TexRebel]

Another good reason to only use powders that almost fill up the case with the desired charge.

Amen to that , I have always followed the almost full rule, it makes it real easy to spot mistakes

[Bret4207]

Joe;
You have mentioned before that you had problems reading the micrometer on various powder measures. It may be that you have bit of dislexia. I have had some serious vision problems in my right eye and I notice that with mostly having to use one eye, that I have to exercise more care simply because I can't see as well with only one eye working well.

However, there is a solution for the powder scales. Several years ago I purchased an RCBS digital scale. It's reading LCD has large lettters and it is extremely easy to read. It is also quite accurate. You might want to try that before you think about "bowing out".

Dale53

Midsouth currently has a digital electronic scale on sale for $25.00 or something like that. I'm thinking of getting one for the reasons Uncle Dale mentions and because I've done the same things a Joe. Never hurts to double check and even an inexpensive scale should pick up 5 or 10 grain mistakes!

[softpoint]

I have here an AMT autoscale, one of the first automated powder dribblers. It was given to me by a gunsmith who used it to freeze the bolt in his Sako 25/06. For those who are unfamiliar with the old autoscale, it was a simple beam scale with an electric eye that sensed when the beam was level. Well, he bumped 'er up 10 by accident, and the autoscale precisely metered him a 10 gr. overcharge. I don;t recall what powder he was using,but the overcharge fit nicely in the case(his words), and he froze and set the bolt back a tad in his Sako Finnbear Aweek later he asked me if I wanted the autoscale, Icould HAVE it. I'm still trying to figger out if he was trying to do me a favor, or blow me up:mrgreen:

[RNyogi]

I use two scales - and RCBS 505 and an electronic to check the weights. If they dont agree - time to see why.
I concur. I bought a $20 generic digital scale, and double check my "old time" redding scale against the digtital scale at least twice while reloading, more often if I'm loading more than 20 or 30 rounds. I'm a little anal any way.:-D
:castmine:

[BruceB]

My worst loading error was detected before the cartridges left my bench. It's a long story, so suffice it to say that I loaded several .30-06 rounds with 59 grains of 2400 behind 200-grain Nosler Partitions. My routine checks detected the error, but it was a VERY sobering experience. Those loads were hand grenades, and no mistake.

My Ohaus 10-10 hasn't been used in years, and I now use the PACT electronic jobbie....not the automatic-metering one, just the plain scale. The quick-and-dirty check after calibration at the start of every session, is simply to weigh the scale's own pan....if it varies by more than a tenth from 148.7 grains, I start looking for a problem.

Commercial jacketed bullets from top-notch American makers are so consistent that they also make good check weights. It's rare that a Hornady, Sierra or Nosler weighs more than one or two tenths of a grain away from "nominal" (the stated weight). This makes a fast check very easy indeed. With the light charge weights we use for many cast-bullet loads, just a few assorted small-bore bullets in the area of 25 to 60 grains will work as check weights which are amply accurate to indicate scale problems, such as gross errors in charge weight.

Joe, we're very happy that you came through this!

[singleshotman]

My father was 72 when he blew the barrel on a Remington Rolling block due to a
reloading error(double charge).THe action was not hurt,but it put a bulge in the barrel just in front of the chamber.On these old guns the barrels are soft steel or even wrought iron, so you are much more likely to damage them than yourself. I myself shoot nothing but black powder in these old guns, so it's MUCH safer than shooting smokeless. I would NEVER shoot smokeless in some of these antiques, as one error is all you get.

[Maven]

Joe, I'm happy to learn you weren't injured! Also, after reading some of the responses, I have to agree that using a digital/electronic scale pretty much eliminates a mislocated poise, but such scales introduce their own foibles (irritating, but not necessarily lethal if you "tare" them frequently).

Hope all is still well with you,

Paul

[hydraulic]

How dumb is this one? I loaded 2F in a .30-06 instead of H4831 AND WEIGHED EACH CHARGE BEFORE DUMPING IN THE CASE!!!! I was checking to see how much H4831 I needed to cycle the M1 action so only loaded 8 rounds. When I fired them I noticed the smoke and thought , "Man, that 4831 sure burns dirty". Never found a bullet hole in the target. Action didn't cycle. Didn't catch on to what I had done until I got home and cleaned the cases and ran a patch through the bore. Couldn't figure why it was so dirty. Then the light came on. How could I have NOT noticed that the powder I poured in the scale had come from a can that said GOEX! I'm 71.

[softpoint]

Amazing that people can come away from some of these mistakes intact. I once read of a fellow who was shooting off bags out the window of a shed. He started to clean his .300 Weatherby mkv and the phone rang he had in the shed. Upon finishing his conversation he proceeded to chamber a cartridge and "light one off", He had laid the rifle on the bags with the muzzle out the window when the phone rang. Full house .300 Weatherby. Complete with cleaning rod and brass brush all the way in to the chamber. Blew the barrel out the window. Split front reciever ring. Turned forend in front of magazine into toothpicks. The good part? He had been holding the rifle down on top of the scope with his left hand. The bolt stayed in the Weatherby action. He came away without a scratch! :neutral:

[Uncle R.]

I've had a few "incidents" but never wrecked a gun - never got hurt.
Just lucky - I was I was often foolish when I was younger, but I learned a few things...
Distractions during reloading are sure trouble - and if your mind is somewhere else or if you're tired or angry or in a hurry don't go to the reloading bench!
I've settled on some simple rules that I always follow to help prevent problems.
1) Check the recipe against printed data every time - even if you know your memory's good.
2) Only one can of powder on the bench at a time - ever!
3) Only one box of bullets on the bench - ever!
4) Zero the scale before you start measuring or metering.
5) Look at the scale - look again! Count the index lines - use a magnifying glass if you need it.
6) Charged cases in a loading block - careful visual inspection of powder levels in every case - with a flashlight. Up and down the rows - then back and forth.
7) Check zero on the scale again when you're done charging.
I haven't had a "whoops" in many years - but you can't afford to get complacent. Stay alert - THINK about what you're doing. Hopefully, my "rules" will keep me out of trouble. (Knock on wood!)

[TDC]

I had an unfortunate occurrence and it was caused by a failure to drop a charge in one round rather that a double or "extra" charge.

I was working up a WW231 load for a 1911. I took the gun to the range and fired about 5 shots, I reloaded the magazine and after the third shot I had what seemed to be an apparent squib load. I had been taught to continue to aim the gun down range in the event it could still discharge, and do that for a full minute. I noticed he gun had cycled the next round into the chamber and it was ready to fire again. Whether the round fired had a partial charge or not I don't know.

I had always worked with revolvers and very rarely with autos. Without thinking, and since the gun had expelled the prior case I capped off another round. I felt a powerful jolt and vibration like result that immediately got my attention. The slide of the gun was locked back like it was out of ammo. When I checked the gun I immediately found a huge swell in the middle of the barrel that prevented the slide from closing again. I had obviously fired a round that hit a stuck bullet lodged in the barrel when the prior squib load occurred. I had neglected to check the barrel after the apparent misfire. Had the loads not been very light, I could have lost the use of a hand in the process. I had not focused and considered the danger or threat that was so obvious - in retrospect.

So dumping powder can really be a double threat. Double charges are obviously the more threatening, but so can missing one cartridge with the dump and not checking.. We just can't be too careful. The barrel with the swell hangs from a string above my reloading bench..... a constant reminder of my neglect and stupidity...

After reading these posts I'm going to order a digital scale tomorrow. The human mind, especially mine, can become easily distracted when doing repetitious activities like reloading and we could overlook the obvious. When accidents happen sometimes we can't take them back.... I was fortunate..

[joeb33050]

Thanks for the suggestions. I just ordered a Hornady/Pacific digital scale from Midsouth-thanks Bret.
I haven't bought a digital scale because I've read so much about them being trouble, and because the A/C is on here most of the time and there are winds blowing in the house. But, I'll try it.
I've asked 1 shirt and springfield for permission to add their posts to the update in the book.
Thanks again;
joe b.

[1Shirt]

It is threads like this one that keep me checking Castboolits as often as possible. Words of wisdom based upon experiance rather than theory are the best. There is surely ages of wisdom on this forum, sometimes a little humor, and most of all common sense. There is also a bit of gripe and groan, but guess that goes with the territory.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[TAWILDCATT]

to those "old" it is not the old its the carelessness. I am 85. My mistake was having a friend when loading and got distracted and had no powder in half the cartridges. and in a match.ant bad in slow fire but timed was a bitch.stopped and found sure fire ammo.the best was when I loaded 8 rds and fire as fast as I could in timed fire.I could see every one counting in their minds.and I got a good score.
I have a lee 1000 45 acp and a green machine in 38 spec. I have powder measures dedicated to one charge.Lee disk measures.I load target loads.all my rifle loads are done by batches.and I am capable of seeing if a charge does not look right.
GET A SET OF LYMAN WEIGHTS.and pay attention to what you are doing.if the phone ring let it.they will call again or if you have call identify you can call.do not be distracted for any reason. :coffee:[smilie=1:
BE SAFE HAVE A GOOD DAY.

[crabo]

thats a good rule to follow....I would like to add that only the one powder you are using be on the loading bench.
I'm glad you were not injured

I mixed 2 powders together once and cought the mistake before I used it. It hurt to dump a pound of powder in the flower bed. I have started writing the name of the powder on a post it note, folded over the glue, and then I stick it in the powder measure.

I know what powder is in the measure and I always try to keep only the one can of powder near the reloader.

[454PB]

I've told the story here before, but I once fired a 260 gr. maximum load in my Ruger SBH while a boolit was stuck in the barrel. No damage to the gun or to me......and that's one of the reasons why I'm a Ruger fan.

A suggestion for a cheap, handy scale check weight: a penny weighs about 37 grains. Weigh one, write the weight on it with a sharpie, and leave it in the scale pan for future use.

[Recluse]

It is threads like this one that keep me checking Castboolits as often as possible. Words of wisdom based upon experiance rather than theory are the best. There is surely ages of wisdom on this forum, sometimes a little humor, and most of all common sense. There is also a bit of gripe and groan, but guess that goes with the territory.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

You remind me of my first shirt back in my service days. . . very well stated and dead-on accurate.

For all things shooting and gun-related, this is the only place on the internet that I enjoy well enough to join, be a member and contribute financially to help it continue.

The wisdom, experience and spirit of comradeship here is genuine and huge.

:coffee:

[Springfield]

TDC: I had a bulged barrel on a 1911 once also. A friend of mine was shooting it and it locked up. Was confounded for awhile until I figured out why in the heck I couldn't get the slide all the way to the front to pull the slide off. So how did you get yours apart? I finally used used the thinnest dremel cutting disk and cut off the top rear projection on the slide release so I could get it out and pull the slide.

[TDC]

TDC: I had a bulged barrel on a 1911 once also. A friend of mine was shooting it and it locked up. Was confounded for awhile until I figured out why in the heck I couldn't get the slide all the way to the front to pull the slide off. So how did you get yours apart? I finally used used the thinnest dremel cutting disk and cut off the top rear projection on the slide release so I could get it out and pull the slide.

Here's a picture of the barrel I hang over my reloading bench as a reminder to always check the powder charges, or lack there of, twice!!. As you can see the bulge wasn't huge, probably because the powder charge was light.

I gave the pistol to a gunsmith friend and he managed to take the slide off by pushing it forward really hard. You can see a ring where the bluing rubbed off in the process. The damage looks very minor on the outside of the barrel but looking inside was a whole different picture. It came very close to separating.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/tdcorp/P1010003-2.jpg

I thank my lucky stars this didn't happen with one of my magnum handguns with a full charge... I'm still shooting this 1911 but with a different barrel....:oops: