loose gas checks

[hornsurgeon]

i recently got an order of gator checks here for my 45/70. i have now tried them on 3 different bullets styles using a .458 size die in my 450, and the check is loose on all of them after sizing. not fall off loose, but pull off rather easily. do i need to aneal these or what?

[Big Boomer]

Hornsurgeon: This won't answer your specific question, which regards another product altogether, but years ago I used Lyman gas checks that usually did not stay on the bullet once it hit the berm. Even some Hornady gas checks will come off, though most of them stay on even after impact because they crimp on. Looking back, I can't say that either was more accurate but that both did the job. Once I used up the Lyman gas checks, I stayed with the Hornady, but I can't positively affirm that one is definitely better than the other. Perhaps others have more definite data to that effect. 'Tuck

[405]

Have had it happen on two molds. One I just opened up the shank and went straight to plain base. On the other I honed the mold at the GC shank just a smidge at a time until the check was good and snug after sizing. Not a project for the angle grinder smoothing off weld beads technique!!! :mrgreen: Very tedious and very easy to take too much out and on into the land of no return... molds, even iron molds, are very soft material.

As far as different brands of gas checks?? In a couple of calibers, including 45 Rifle, I can't detect much difference among Hornady, Lyman and Gator. As an aside, I think in a couple of calibers there is a difference in check thickness (or dimensions) between the "rifle" and "handgun" versions.

Bottom line- there may be no easy fix. There is such a fine line between too tight (where the check cannot be seated) and too loose that opening the mold at the GC shank is at best very TRICKY... proceed with caution. Also, I do not know if annealing will help much but might?

I've come to believe that the check can be a little loose and not affect accuracy... BUT, the check and bullet base need to be as plumb and square as possible for best accuracy AND it's no good at all if the check falls off the bullet while the bullet is seated in the case or is left in the barrel when very light loads are used!

[Duckiller]

A drop of "Super Glue" sticks a gas check on real tight.

[BABore]

Anneal a handful and try them. It will usually solve the problem. Eliminates the springback.

[hornsurgeon]

well, i have now tried aneling the checks, but no better. what's strange is that the shank measures .425 and the gas check .426. my size die sizes my boolits to .4595. i guess i might try opening up my mold just a hair at the check.

[Leftoverdj]

Are you using a mould release? That could easily reduce the size of the shank by a thou or two.

[Bret4207]

What does an unsized check measure around the circumference as compared to a sized check? Is the die sizing the check to .4595 or is it coming out .460+? That will tell you what the die is doing. What alloy are you using? A very soft alloy might not offer much gripping power.

You can open the GC shank slightly by scraping it. Doesn't sound real accurate, but it's cheap and it works.

[Leftoverdj]

My memory kicked in. 2-3 years back, a .45-70 group buy came in with undersized shanks. A poster called Drinks made up several simple reamers and sent them out. If he's still around or one of his reamers is still around, there's your answer.

[hornsurgeon]

no mold release. i'll have to mike the check before and after. i'm using acww for alloy and sizing to .4595

[Bret4207]

It's possible the check is springing back a bit, annealing can help this. You may have to open the heels a bit if you want real firm seating. FWIW- I still shoot Lyman non-crimping checks and they do just fine, a death grip by the check isn't always needed.

[hornsurgeon]

tried anealing, no help.

[Bret4207]

Well, the question then is are they staying on in the case? Are they flying off in flight and spoiling your groups? Like I said, they don't need a death grip. Truth is as long as they stay straight and on the base in the case then if they aren't real tight it doesn't matter too much. The old song was that the non-crimping Lyman checks would fall off in flight giving wild grouping. I've used thousands of Lyman checks from the old grey and black boxes and the little brownish grey pasteboard boxes and never had any problems with that.

Shoot 'em and see. It may be an issue, it may be nothing.

[leadman]

I have thousands of Gator checks for different sizes. Last week I was sizing 44s and I picked up a gas check and it was only about 1/2 as thick as the rest.
Could Gator be using different thicknesses of materials?
Can you measure the material thickness of your checks and post it?