I need 314299 drawing for Lee 6 cavity

[NuJudge]

I need a LOT of .303 British bullets, I need them to be heavy, and they have to have someting like a point on them. I believe I am willing to Honcho this.

The 314299 looks like what I need. Can someone provide me with a drawing for submittal to Lee?

CDD

[castalott]

I can't help you with the drawing....but I would be interested in a 'long range' bullet of this size.......I wish you luck!

[Tom Myers]

CDD

I dont't have an actual lyman bullet to measure, but I scaled Lyman's image out and came up with this sketch, let me know what changes you want and it is a simple matter for my bullet design software to make the changes and re-post the image until it is the way you want it.

After you get it the way you want it, you can just copy and print the image and use it or you may want to have it redone by a real proffesional draftsman.

An elliptical nose most closely matched Lyman's sketch, but I don't know whether Lee can duplicate the elliptical curve . We can come close with a Tangent Ogive nose. We'll see after you finish the adjustments.

You can either PM me with your changes or post them here.

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com/)

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Custom%20Lyman%20314299%20%20199_gr.gif

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Custom%20Lyman%20Sketch%20314299%20199_gr.gif

[NuJudge]

I think we need some measurements from actual 314299 cast bullets. I'm looking for something that casts about .314" as cast from wheelweights, with a nose diameter of about .305".

My understanding is that the 314299 has all its lube grooves covered by the .303 neck when the gas check is seated just below the bottom of the neck. My measurements are that the .303 British neck is .330" long. My guess is that the gas check shank length of .100" is about what it should be, the length of the two driving bands needing to be about .090", the two lube grooves being about .060".

Christopher Dingell

[Tom Myers]

Christopher,

Check the drawing again, I made the changes. We can keep playing with it until someone comes up with some actual casting measurements.

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com)

[StarMetal]

I have that mould and I measured up some bullets cast of WW's. The average diameter of the drive bands are .314. The distance from the bottom of the bottom band to the front edge of the front band is .340. The lenght of the entire bullet is 1.1875 The bore riding nose is measuring between .3025 to .303. Hope this helps.

Joe

Here's a picture of my bullet. The nose on mine looks more pointed.

[45 2.1]

From personal experience shooting the 311299, 314299 and the Fat 30 in the 303 British, the Fat 30 comes closer to making better groups in it, but still is a little small. Add a thousandth to Glenns Fat 30 drawing on all diameters on bands and nose and put the 314299 nose ogive on it and it should fit a large 303 bore pretty well.

[StarMetal]

Bob,

I HAD a MKIII* Lithglo 303 that I shot the 314299 into 1 inch at 75 yards. It shot even better out of my Krag at 100 yards, and beats jacketed out of my CZ 30-06. I think it's one hell of a good bullet.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Bob,

I HAD a MKIII* Lithglo 303 that I shot the 314299 into 1 inch at 75 yards. It shot even better out of my Krag at 100 yards, and beats jacketed out of my CZ 30-06. I think it's one hell of a good bullet.

Joe

Joe-
Thats fine, BUT at 1.18" it is a little to long for the LEE six cavity blocks. Think of 1.1" as absolute max. That bottom gets VERY thin at 1.1" also. Perhaps putting a meplat on where the nose radius is would work out alright, the Fat 30s meplat is a little large and rounds the sharp edge when feeding.

[StarMetal]

Bob,

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Dang, Lee need to make alot of improvements.

Joe

[w30wcf]

Tom,

Good effort and nice drawing.
I also have the 314299 mold.
Taking measurements from my mold's bullet in comparison to yours:

yours / bullet measures
.400 / .33
.785 / .84
1.118 / 1.14
1.165 / 1.18
.150 / .12

.100 / .09
.09 / .07
.06 / .05
.09 / .07
.06 / .05
.096 / .11

.314 dia. / .314 dia.
.275 dia. / .275 dia.
.305 dia. / .304 dia.

wt. without gas check: 203 grs. in w.w.+ 2% tin alloy (208 grs. with g.c.)
BC: Lyman Handbook indicates .377.

Sincerely,
w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Nujudge,

Based on Bob's observation, you will not be able to replicate the 314299 exactly in the Lee's 6 cavity blocks. It would have to be shortened by .08".

Why not just buy a 4 cavity mold(s) for this bullet from Lyman?

Sincerely,
w30wcf

[45 2.1]

Nujudge,

Based on Bob's observation, you will not be able to replicate the 314299 exactly in the Lee's 6 cavity blocks. It would have to be shortened by .08".

Why not just buy a 4 cavity mold(s) for this bullet from Lyman?

Sincerely,
w30wcf

Lyman doesn't currently produce this mold in four cavity. There is alot of talk about doing another Fat 30 run, maybe Christopher could honcho and make the changes he wants to produce another design.

[jaystuw]

w30wcf-I don't think lyman mades rifle caliber molds in 4 cavity. do they?

[Frank46]

NuJudge, my lyman comes out .314 on the bands and .303 on the bore riding section. May I suggest that maybe you increase the band diameters maybe a couple thousandths?. Some of those lee enfields and enfields do have larger than spec'd barrel dimensions. Besides if lee goofs you have more room to play with. Frank

[Dutch4122]

May I suggest that maybe you increase the band diameters maybe a couple thousandths?. Some of those lee enfields and enfields do have larger than spec'd barrel dimensions. Besides if lee goofs you have more room to play with. Frank

I'll second that. Might be useful with some of the Moisin Nagants as well. I had a M91/59 that slugged .315" that I sold to a friend who shoots the milsurp ammo rather than bother with it. They are out there.

[Buckshot]

.................How about we REALLY get out there? Add another lube groove/drive band out there and shorten the nose back 8).

Hey! All you guys get off me, it's hard to breath under here:lovebooli [smilie=l:

....................Buckshot

[sundog]

I cast a bunch of 314299 a couple of weeks ago. Alloy is WW/shot/solder and it was AC'd (for size down to .312 and heat treat for an 03). Here's some measurements.

very nice round .314
nose dia is .302/.303 on the parts
naked length 1.177
202 grains

I have another one I got from Jump several years ago - a custom run Lee - that weighs 200 grains and is not quite so round .315-.317, nos is .303+ and is 1.110 length. It's got somebody' name (designer) on it, so it might be recognizable - don't recall right now but when the sun comes up I'll meander out to t he shop and check. If anyone is interested, I would try to post a pick, but it seems like y'all are trying for something longer.

Don't forget, you'll need a .316 or more H&I to handle the GC and lubing. I lapped out a .314 last weekend via Buckshot's method. That's two I've done now, and they seem to be okay. VERY time consuming. sundog

[45 2.1]

Something else to look at which is 1 inch long: Weight approx. 185 to 190 gr.

[Bret4207]

I too would recommend you add some diameter to the mould. Lee tends to cut on the small side anyway. Design it for .3165 in WW and you'd be about right. I may get in on this one.

[Dutch4122]

Something else to look at which is 1 inch long:

What's the weight on this one?

Also, FWIW I agree with Tpr. Brett. Order it oversize on the diagram as Lee will cut it small.

[sundog]

45, design looks a little like an RCBS 30-180-SP except the nose shank comes back square to the front driving band instead of having a taper. Your meplat may be a tad larger. The 30-180-SP is 1.068 length. It's a purdy durn good boolit, too (dia is .310 and nose is .301 - we can take a lesson from that). Why not extend it out to max length for the Lee and make and honest dropped .316+ in WW and an honest dropped nose of, oh, say .304+. My problem with these fat 30's is that the nose dia tends to be anemic. That said, I have one of the group buy fat 30s, and I haven't even cast with it yet.... Time is fleeting. sundog

[45 2.1]

45, design looks a little like an RCBS 30-180-SP except the nose shank comes back square to the front driving band instead of having a taper. Your meplat may be a tad larger. The 30-180-SP is 1.068 length. It's a purdy durn good boolit, too (dia is .310 and nose is .301 - we can take a lesson from that). Why not extend it out to max length for the Lee and make and honest dropped .316+ in WW and an honest dropped nose of, oh, say .304+. My problem with these fat 30's is that the nose dia tends to be anemic. That said, I have one of the group buy fat 30s, and I haven't even cast with it yet.... Time is fleeting. sundog

The body length is from the dimensions that Chris gave which are about ideal. The boolit dimensions are already larger than what you gave, but those should be agreeded on by the group. I don't believe boolit will solve any more problems here.

[Tom Myers]

The image and sketch on post #3 have been updated to conform with the dimensions that W30WCF measured from his casting of a Lyman 314299 Mold.

Obviously the cavity is too large for the Lee six cavity so a new set of dimensions is needed.

When Christopher pulls all the suggestions together we can draw a new set of dimensions.

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com/)

[sundog]

If you redimension to fit the limitation of the block, then you no longer have the boolit you want. Or have I missed something? Gonna need to find a different block.... sundog

[w30wcf]

One solution would be to change the .84 dimension to .76, but as sundog indicated, then it's not a true 314299.

Regarding the Lyman 4 cavity rifle molds, I guess I'm a little behind the times.
At one time, Lyman did offer 4 cavity rifle bullet molds. A distant friend of mine had a 4 cavity 311291 and I've seen pictures of others.

Just for the heck of it I'm going to call Lyman tomorrow and ask. I've had the pleasure of visiting Lyman 2 times in the past and have seen their mold making operation both at their old location back in 1983 and their current address about 7 years ago. Unless something has changed, they could manufacture a 4 cavity rifle bullet mold with the equipment they have.

I'll let you know what they say.

w30wcf

[sundog]

Well, I went out to the shop to check on that Lee mould and got side tracked. The Lee I mentioned earlier is marked '.316 Troy Burns Special'. Now for the sidetrack. I beagled the 314299 and cast enough WQ to try out later in either the Brit or the Jap. Came out good. I taped only one side and the boolits came out .315 x .304/.305 on the nose. Just thought I'd pass that along FWIW. sundog

[Char-Gar]

I would be interested also..But...the body should be .316 - .317 and the nose .304-.305. Fudge that .001 on all dimensions to compensate for Lees use of funky alloys and molds which always cast under when requested for WW.

Lots of SMLEs run .315 is the grooves and .304 in the bore. My LongBranch does.