Rolling Block strenght

[RemSoles]

Hi guys, I was wondering how strong the swedish 1867 rolling block rifles are? Will they handle 50-90, 45-90, 45-100 with blackpowder or equivelent smokeless loads? I am thinking of getting one of these rifles in bad shape and rebarreling it.

[Wayne Smith]

They were originally chambered in 50-70 and 7mm Mauser. The problem with the longer cases is getting it over the hump of the rolling block to chamber it. You may be able to get a 50-90 in, I'd bet a 45-110 would hang up.

[leadman]

To get a 45-110 in you probably would have to grind off part of the hammer nose. I've seen this and can't say I care to do it.
I've a Pedersoli in 40-65 and really like it. It isn't a magnum but I can still obtain 1,400 fps with a 400 grain boolit. I usually shoot it at about 1,250fps.
Ackley seemed to think the smokeless actions were pretty strong.

[Dutchman]

The Swedish m/1867 rolling block was chambered in 12,17x42R rimfire. A small number of trials rifles were chambered in 11mm Jarmann. The m/1860-64-68 Swedish rolling block was also chambered in 12,17x42R. The m/1867-68 Swedish rolling block was chambered in 12,17x42R. In American numbers the 12,17x42R can be likened to .50-75-345 but the case is narrower in the head diameter than the US .50-70 Gov't cartridge and the two are not interchangeable.

When the military rifles were retired and ended up in civilian hands the breechblocks were converted to center-fire so they could reload. This subsequent cartridge is known as the 12,7x44R Swedish. They are basically the same except the later has a center-fire primer. The Swedish military never used a center-fire cartridge in the m/1867 rolling block. The m/1867 Swedish rolling block will kickass on the m/1889 in shooting competition. Into the early 20th century Swedish shooters much preferred the 12,7x44R as it will bang the gong all the live long day while the 8x58R Danish will start to walk bullets all around for a couple reasons, one being barrel heat and barrel band tension. I've never, not once, heard of a m/1889 rolling block delivering any case of whoopass on the m/1867 rifle. The m/1867 3 band muskets are wonderfully accurate rifles.

The m/1889 Swedish rolling block was chambered only in 8x58R Danish in a loading level less than the m/1889 Danish Krag rifles. The m/1889 rolling block requires a lower chamber pressure than the Krag.

The Swedish rolling block, which is what the original poster asked about, was never chambered in either .50-70 Gov't or 7mm (of any kind).

Do not mistake the Swedish m/1867 with the m/1889 as the latter had new breechblock and hammer manufactured and the receiver was re-case hardened. This leads some shooters to erroneously belief its capable of handling just about anything. Wrong. The m/1889 rolling block has woefully inadequate ability to FLEX under pressure and is known to be too hard. As well there is next to no gas escape in the design.

While some/many shooters will scoff at any warning and state loudly that THEIR rolling block hasn't blown up yet so that means all rolling blocks in the entire world will never blow up. That's how you define your basic "internet expert".

I'm here to tell you rolling block rifles DO blow up and HAVE killed shooters. Consider me the Yang to the internet expert's Ying.

Swedish m/1867 rolling blocks and other models produced in Sweden have steel receivers. Steel as in 1867, not 2009. Metal fatigue is cumulative. Make sure you know what that means before you proceed. Make sure your family will be taken care of should you be one of the few who is killed when his rifle grenades into his face/brain/skull.

Smokeless powder in a blackpowder rolling block has always and will continue to be a controversial subject, as it is with all black powder firearms. Don't take someone else's word for what may be the last decision of your life. I'm not trying to present a balanced and fully informed opinion here. Ik ben Yang. You can get the other side from some one else.

We don't know which of these cartridges the shooter stuffed in his ratty *** rolling block because he was killed when the receiver failed and most of the breech block launched rearward through his eye and into the rear part of his eye socket. These photos are from the Swedish police national forensic laboratory.


Dutch
http://images49.fotki.com/v1496/photos/2/28344/1676633/rbb_01b-vi.jpg

http://images49.fotki.com/v1495/photos/2/28344/1676633/rbb_05b-vi.jpg

[RemSoles]

Wow, thanks for the replies. It would probably be a better idea to stick with the original barrel in 12.7-44r then or if I rebarrel to 50-70 with blackpowder I guess. Thanks again, just wanted to see if anyone had some insight, I'm definitely not trying to kill myself:mrgreen:.

[JSnover]

To get a 45-110 in you probably would have to grind off part of the hammer nose. I've seen this and can't say I care to do it.

I'd hate to grind the hammer too. Assuming the pressure level is known safe and the problem is rim diameter/OAL, why not file a little off one side of the rim? I shoot 400 grain boolits at about 1200 fps. My only problem is I like to seat them long so they engage the rifling. I took a little off each rim, chamber them with the flat spot at 6 o'clock... problem solved.

[marlinman93]

Dutch,
That's the best factual info on Rollers I've read on the internet! Well written sir! I love Rollers, and enjoy shooting them, but with common sense in reloading for them.
I shoot an original #1 Sporter in .44-77 Sharps Bottleneck, and I'd like to keep it in one piece, so it gets nothing but cast lead and BP.

[longhorn]

I'm absolutely with the Dutchman on this, and I own 2 rollers. It's a BLACK POWDER design; even a cursory review of internal ballistics will show that black and "smokeless equivalent" loads may have similar peak pressures and extremely different pressure curves. I'd warn against anything but black or bp substitutes in any bp design, including rollers, Sharps, and trapdoors, even if they were built last week--but I haven't seen any ads for eye replacements lately.

[Harry O]

I have a 45-70 RB rifle that was built on a Swedish receiver. I decided when I built it that I would ONLY use black powder in it. I have seen too many pictures over the years of blown up old guns that used "smokless equivalent" loads.

Remember that the stuff they called "steel" back in 1867 was very little stronger than cast iron. I have personally tested "high strength" steel that was made during WWI (an aircraft part) and it was lower strength than the lowest strength steel that we could buy at the time (about 30 years ago). What we know as steel has continuously improved in strength, elongation, and toughness (which is a different property than strength) over the last 150 years.

Stick with BP and you will live longer.

[leadman]

Accurate lists loads for SMOKELESS POWDER ACTIONS with a 400 grain boolit and 37 grains of2495 powder, 1633 fps, psi is 19,600.
Same boolit with 52 grs. 8700 powder, 1183fps, 16,800 psi. I have shot this load, very accurate and even smokes almost like black.

I would only use these in a modern reproduction in excellent condition.

I wonder what cartridge the blown up RB was actually chambered for.

[yarro]

The blown up gun was chambered in 12.7x44mm Danish. I have the rifle version, which is fine with moderate BP loads and 350ish grain bullet with cases being made from cut down .50 Alaskan with the neck mouth reamed. They suspect that the blown up rifle was fired with a .500 Nitro in it. It is important that you slug your bore to ensure that you aren't trying to drive anything too big down it and be prudent in your loading of BP. Make sure that the action is in good condition and that the hammer spring is strong. I also have an 8mm Krag-Jorg. that was sporterized, which is sad as it had obviously never been shot before it came to me. I have not got around to making brass for it yet, but it will be BP only as well.

-yarro

[leadman]

Remington did build a no.5 in smokeless calibers 7mm Mauser, 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 Brit, 32-40 smokeless, 32 Win. Spl., 38-55 smokeless and others. This was in sporting configuration. There was also a military version in 236 Rem., 7.65 Mauser, 7.62 Russian and others.
That was from Remington Rolling blocks by Konrad F. Schreier, Jr.
I owned a no.5 military in 7x57 at one time. It had BATJAC stamped in the stock. I was told that was John Wayne's company.
One thing about the 7x57 chambering in the old rollers is that the body of the case is longer than modern 7x57. That is why everyone thinks there is something wrong with the headspace. These were made before SAAMI specs.
My old gun was pretty rusty so I finally sold it as a wall hanger.

Even with a no.5 I would use extreme caution in loading smokeless rounds for it.

[Harry O]

One thing that should be kept in mind about Swedish RB's is that they were some of the earliest that Remington ever made. There were 20,000 complete rifles and 20,000 receivers made by Remington for the Swedes in about 1867-1868. That is a long time ago. They should be limited to BP only.

The smokless powder versions were made around the turn of the last century and made with better steel. Steel made a huge leap in strength in the 1880's to 1900. It also made smaller jumps after WW1 and during WW2. Just because they were made in smokeless cartridges does not mean that you should use the same in a 50 year older gun that was made of weaker steel.

[Dutchman]

One thing that should be kept in mind about Swedish RB's is that they were some of the earliest that Remington ever made. There were 20,000 complete rifles and 20,000 receivers made by Remington for the Swedes in about 1867-1868. That is a long time ago. They should be limited to BP only.

The smokless powder versions were made around the turn of the last century and made with better steel. Steel made a huge leap in strength in the 1880's to 1900. It also made smaller jumps after WW1 and during WW2. Just because they were made in smokeless cartridges does not mean that you should use the same in a 50 year older gun that was made of weaker steel.


Just so we keep in mind exactly ~which~ smokeless rolling blocks we're talking about....

The Swedish 1867-89 were made from blackpowder frames that were re-case hardened and fitted with new made forged hammers and breechblocks. The model year being 1889 but I've not seen any dated prior to 1891 for the conversion date though there may be some earlier. Last dates are 1896/97. I'm not 100% on the last year they were produced. For the most part 1896 but I've heard there are some conversions dated later. The conversion date is stamped into the right side of the barrel flat behind a new serial number XXXXX/96 thusly also on the wood below the metal.

This one below is a sporterized m/1867-89 in caliber 8x58RD (Danish).

http://images7.fotki.com/v135/photos/2/28344/1676633/q22-vi.jpg

The only difference in strength between the one above and the one below is the one above was re-heattreated? Boy, that makes me warm and fuzzy all over, hey?

This is all beside the point of what caused this rifle to come apart. I've become like an old woman concerning rolling blocks because of what I've learned and experienced in the last 9 years of owning them and studying them. Great historic rifles. But with limitations and in some cases those limitations can be mitigated with knowledge. That's why I make a big deal of rolling block strength anymore.

Kill yourself with knowledge, not ignorance :???:.

http://images47.fotki.com/v1462/photos/2/28344/1676633/rbb_03b-vi.jpg

[northmn]

I had a couple of RB's worked over for BPC's way back when. One was an old derelict that a gunsmith worked over for me. One of the first things he would do is replace the Block pin with one made out of good alloyed steel. It was a wear area anyway. Claimed that was one difference between smokeless and BP. Case hardening reduses wear but does not do a lot for strength.

Northmn

[Frank46]

you have to stop yourself and ask. Ok here is my sswedish rolloing block. Its stamped 1875 the year is 2009 thats 124 years old. Ok some were reworked with new hammers and breech blocks mine had the dirty deed done in 1896. She's in nice shape and was probably carried by some swedish hunter out in the cold and snow. Mine eventually will become a 50-70 just because I want one. Small case, big boolit and hopefully decently accurate. Back when numrich has the buffalo hunter kits I fitted a barrel to a nice #1 BP action. Since I was financially challenged back then. Cases were resized over and over what I didn't know was check them for length. So at one point the cases had lengthened to the point that they would no longer fully chamber. One of the other shooters was a friend of my Dad's and asked when was the last time I had trimmed the cases. The blank stare said it all. I fired loads that were for the 86 winchester in that rifle. When I told him what I was shooting he almost turned white. See we learn from others mistakes. And believe you me I made my share. I tried 32-20 pistol bullets behind a full military load from argentine military ammo. Not much accuracy as most of those bullets blew up going so fast. But even then I learned something. Frank

[Harry O]

Just so we keep in mind exactly ~which~ smokeless rolling blocks we're talking about....


I was thinking about the 7mm Spanish/Mexican rolling blocks when I wrote that. They did have better steel, not merely re-heat-treated cast iron. I would be very afraid of using anything other than BP with cast iron.

[Dutchman]

Swedish rolling blocks, none of them, were made from cast iron. They are steel.


Dutchman

[jh45gun]

Remington did build a no.5 in smokeless calibers 7mm Mauser, 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 Brit, 32-40 smokeless, 32 Win. Spl., 38-55 smokeless and others. This was in sporting configuration. There was also a military version in 236 Rem., 7.65 Mauser, 7.62 Russian and others.
That was from Remington Rolling blocks by Konrad F. Schreier, Jr.
I owned a no.5 military in 7x57 at one time. It had BATJAC stamped in the stock. I was told that was John Wayne's company.
One thing about the 7x57 chambering in the old rollers is that the body of the case is longer than modern 7x57. That is why everyone thinks there is something wrong with the headspace. These were made before SAAMI specs.
My old gun was pretty rusty so I finally sold it as a wall hanger.

Even with a no.5 I would use extreme caution in loading smokeless rounds for it.

I have a No 5 that I have had rebarrled to 45/70 and I shoot loads in the bottom third range of the Marlin/Winchester loads in the loading books the action is plenty strong enough for these loads. Yes I have had it gunsmith checked in fact a smith did the barrel for me a Green Mountain 32 inch full octagon barrel. I also contacted Steve Garbe about it and asked him about the strength of a no 5 action. No they are not as strong as a Ruger No 1 but they are stronger then a Trapdoor too. On the black powder actions I would only shoot loads that are black or are lower power smokeless rounds.

[Harry O]

Swedish rolling blocks, none of them, were made from cast iron. They are steel.
Dutchman

Cast iron was a poor choice of words. However, they WERE made from iron. Forged from iron ingots that were cast. They did not have what we consider steel before the 1880's or so. That is after the Swedish rolling blocks were made. The only steel before the 1880's was made in very small quantities with a high labor content. If you check Winchester books, they made the change over from iron to steel until the 1880's to 1890's when it became easily available. Even then, the "steel" was only 10% to 15% stronger than the iron it replaced. BTW, the reason for "damascus" barrels was that they were as strong as the early steel for a little less money. When the strength of steel continued to rise (and damascus could not), damascus was no longer made.

[Cap'n Morgan]

There was a discussion recently on the British Military forum:http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8814 - regarding a blown up Danish RB:
http://www.pbase.com/halp/danerollblock

The rifle looks much worse than the Swedish one that caused the fatal accident, yet the shooter in this case didn't suffer seriously injury. Perhaps because the blow up was so powerful that the chamber blew completely, whereas the Swede *only* let go of the breach block and the receiver, turning the breach block into a deadly projectile.

[13Echo]

Cap"n the Danish failure was discussed at length on the Single Shot Rifle Forum previously. One thing that was remarked on was that there is no sign of black powder fouling anywhere on the rifle which leads one to think a heavy smokeless load did the dirty deed. Also the lack of case colors on the action remarked on the British Forum just means the colors have faded with age.

Jerry Liles

[NoZombies]

Cast iron was a poor choice of words. However, they WERE made from iron. Forged from iron ingots that were cast. They did not have what we consider steel before the 1880's or so. That is after the Swedish rolling blocks were made. The only steel before the 1880's was made in very small quantities with a high labor content. If you check Winchester books, they made the change over from iron to steel until the 1880's to 1890's when it became easily available. Even then, the "steel" was only 10% to 15% stronger than the iron it replaced. BTW, the reason for "damascus" barrels was that they were as strong as the early steel for a little less money. When the strength of steel continued to rise (and damascus could not), damascus was no longer made.

The Bessemer process for manufacturing steel was patented in 1855 and had been known as early as 1851 (though not my Bessemer, but he was a better marketer). Even the earliest Remington actions were made from "Bessemer new process steel" not wrought iron.

A modification and modernization of the Bessemer process is still used today to manufacture mild steel

[Harry O]

No Zombies: This is from the Remington Society of America



"The Remington catalog of 1875 is the first that lists barrels of decarbonized steel for rifle barrels. This is what we call mild steel today. This steel is soft like Damascus, but more ductile. You'll see a lot more repairable dents or gouges in these steels than in a more modern steel. The barrels were rolled from solid metal , without weld or seam. They were rolled to size bored out, then turned and ground proved with a heavy charge of powder and a solid slug of lead. "

"The April 1897 Remington Arms Co. catalogue introduced “Remington steel” barrels on the Remington Hammerless Doubles. Prior to that date shotguns were only offered with Damascus barrels of varying qualities by grade. Two types of steel barrels were introduced at that time: “Remington Steel” and “Ordnance Steel”"

"Remington Steel was the lower grade and was sold for the same price as the ordinary Damascus barrels on A-grade shotguns. It was made “in-house” at the Remington factory."

""Ordnance Steel" is a higher grade, and was especially recommended for heavy charges of nitro powder. The tensile strength of this steel is 110,000 lbs., and elastic limit 60,000 lbs., this being greatly in excess of any strain to which barrels are subjected with reasonable loads of nitro powders. It was available in some rifles and shotguns."



I did not know this until I looked as a response to your post. However, I have worked with Steel my entire professional career. I was the head of a Testing Lab in a steel manufacturing facility for 4+ years. During that time, I was provided a ferrule from a WW1 fighter airplane for testing. It was made from what was labeled "high strength steel" (the label was from WW1). I tested it and found that it was lower strength than the lowest strength steel that can be bought today. In addition, it had a lot more impurities than would be allowed today, particularly sulfer. (PS. "today" means from about 1975 to 1980). I know that steel has continued to increase since then in strength, ductility, and all the other desireable characteristics we use without thinking about it.

The early Remington rolling blocks were made from iron.

[NoZombies]

Harry O:

The "modern steel" from 1975-1980 would be vastly superior to the steel produced just 1 or 2 decades prior. The modernization of the Bessemer process occured in about 1968, when it was replaced in industry by Several processes, most notably the Linz-Donawitz process, which changed the gas blown through the melt from air, to oxygen, and changed the material lining the converter to a Basic (PH basic) refractory. it greatly reduces the number of voids, inclusions and impurities.

Damascus steel was used prior to "fluid" steel in shotgun barrels because it was "strong" and lightweight when used in barrels as apposed to wrought iron.

The use of Steel in barrels was adopted later than the use of steel in receivers, the reason for this was the required differences in the manufacturing processes for the barrels, whereas receivers were made with the same processes and equipment, whether steel or iron.

I know I've seen literature from the 1870's that stated the rolling blocks used Bessemer steel for the receivers, but I'll be damned if I can find it now. I suppose I could have imagined it, but I don't think I did.

[blysmelter]

All swedish-made RBs have a steel reciver, some very early ones has iron barrels mounted on US made recivers.

[BIG GUN]

I have a rolling block that shows 1876 on the receiver. When I bought it around 1961 it was like new. I new it was not chambered in 45-70 but I loaded up some lp rounds in that caliber and it shot just fine but expanded the base a bit. I have been using this on a fairly regular basis over the years just neck sizing so I didn't set back the base. The most accurate load consisted of a 405G G.C. wheel weight bullet over 40G of TCCI 8208 which was a short cut version of 4198. I got one hole groups with this at 100 yds. I am now using AA5744 for all my rifles in 45-70 and 40-65 Win. at original BP pressures per the Accurate obsolete Ctg. Section.

[New2daGame]

Hey ya'll have a question. I have 2 Swedish rollers (8x58RD)they were both sporterized and i wanna see about converting one to a 45/90 or 45/110. Is this possible and what all would i need to do? your answers are most welcome. I also wish i could find one in the military conversion before it was chopped.

[Dutchman]

For the best research on the strength of the 1889 Swedish rolling block read this:

Historical and Experimental Investigations of the Pressure Characteristics of the 8x58 Rimmed Danish Cartridge
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/GB8x58RD.html


Dutch

[Multigunner]

All I can add is that the british Admiralty bought several thousand "Remington single shot rifles" in 7mm caliber around 1915 or ship board use. They withdrew the rifles due to some not identified problem with the breech.

I'd figured it was a problem caused by use of British manufacture 7mm ammunition, they had produced ammo in this caliber for foreign sales before the war.

I found that information on Ian Skenerton's site long ago.

Cast Mild Steel can be casehardened much as cast iron.
The "White cast Irons" are in many cases much stronger than equivalent steels in compressive strength but not in shear strength, and don't recover from stretching.
White Cast iron was once used for Lee Enfield boltheads, these marked with an M meaning maleable cast iron/mild steel, Maleable Cast Iron has just enough carbon to be on the borderline of being considered a steel.

Cast steel can be very strong but is subject to defects in manufacture. As far as I know truly reliable cast steel firearms in high pressure chamberings weren't available till the 50's, with more than a few investment cast M-1 carbine clone receivers having serious headspace issues just the same.

Some bolt action rifles of the late 19th century used steel receivers first roughly cast then the casting drop forged before machining.

Metal fatique is another factor.
Nickel Steels were very resistent to metal fatique, and rifles with significant nickel content (2.76 % and up)are often still in fine shape a century or more later on. Steels without nickel fared less well.

[New2daGame]

I guess i should just ask Dutchman, what would you do? what cal (black powder) would you recomend? i thought i saw something about 45 110 and 45 90. there was also soemething about 40 65wcf. Help me guys i dont wanna get blown up and i wanna shoot long range with this thing.

[Multigunner]

I guess i should just ask Dutchman, what would you do? what cal (black powder) would you recomend? i thought i saw something about 45 110 and 45 90. there was also soemething about 40 65wcf. Help me guys i dont wanna get blown up and i wanna shoot long range with this thing.

If the rifle is strong enough, I've read that the .40-80 was the top long range cartridge of the late BP era, with match winning 1000 yard grouping tighter than many winning smokeless cartridge groups of later years.

[New2daGame]

Thanks for the info, i am still wanting to make it at least a 45-90 but i will look into the 40 cartridges. i have also attained some 8x56r hungarian ammo to reload for the 8x58 RB. We will have to see how it goes. anymore info on the chamberings would be great i am still looking at making it a 45-110. thanks for the help.

[Bullshop]

We have one of the kit barrels from Numrich Arms for a roller. It is full octi and I think 28" for 444 Marlin. I will ship it for a C note.
BIC/BS

[Don McDowell]

Bullshop is that barrel cut for the rotary extractor?


new2dagame, length of the bpcr cartridges is the biggest factor. Doing one of those rifle in 45-90 is surely possible, but will cost about 500 or more, depending on what all you have done at the time. You'll have to have a different forearm and ditching that military butt will make it much more pleasant to shoot.
Sticking with a cartridge in the 45 family case head will also keep from having to find a new blank extractor, those rotars are sometimes hard to find.
I built the wife a 40-65 off of one of those 8x58 swedes/dane rollers.

[yarro]

One note on the 8x58R Danish is that they are not safe to shoot ammo loaded for the Krag, which is much stronger, in them. They loaded special reduced charge loads for use in the Rolling Blocks, which were retained as a war reserve. This is why the 8mm Rolling Blocks are in such nice shape. Most never saw the outside world until they were surplused. Most rifles were cut down before being sold to the public. Un-mucked with rifles in 8mm are as expensive over there as here according to my friends in Sweden although most are in very nice shape.

-yarro

[GARYC]

Hello all. I am considering buying a Swedish 1867/74. Reading some of the discussion on this forum is both helpful and a real eye-opener.

For reasons of economy more than any other, I am thinking of having the RB action rebarreled in a more common, easy obtainable caliber. 30-30 Win seems like a good candidate, as I think I prefer a true "rifle" caliber over a "pistol" caliber. Although, being an admirer of the .41mag and having a lot of brass for the same, I have entertained the possibility.

Strength of the RB action is of real concern to me! I have NO desire to reload, using BLACK POWDER. I have NO desire to achieve abnormally high velocities. I would like to build a SAFE, ACCURATE, FUN TO SHOOT RB!

With the above in mind, I was wandering; will the use of a NEW BARREL, made of MODERN STEEL add some margin of safety to a century plus gun! Would FACTORY AMMO or "RELOADED TO FACTORY SPECS" AMMO IN ONE OF THE AFORE MENTIONED CALIBERS HAVE AN IMPROVED MARGIN OF SAFETY?

What are your thoughts?

GARYC

[Don McDowell]

Gary by the time you hunt down one of the Scandanavian hardened rollers, or find one of the remington smokeless actions, then buy the barrel and go to all the business of having it fitted and blued, you might just be better off to find one of the Uberti rollers in 30-30. Or just find a good 7x57 Remington and be done with it.

[trevj]

Hi guys, I was wondering how strong the swedish 1867 rolling block rifles are? Will they handle 50-90, 45-90, 45-100 with blackpowder or equivelent smokeless loads? I am thinking of getting one of these rifles in bad shape and rebarreling it.

Buy one in good shape and rebarrel it. You will get a better result, cheaper.

Buying one in bad shape is a mugs game. It'll cost you more to get a decent gun that way, because you will have to rebuild the bad shape gun into a good shape gun, before you will want it near your face going off. :)

Cheers
Trev

[Clark]

My Remington Rolling block #5 type 1905 or 1910 is big.
My Rolling block #4 made in 1896 is small.

The #5 has 500% of the metal in cross section of the #4

How strong is a rolling block?
How long is a string?

[marlinman93]

My Remington Rolling block #5 type 1905 or 1910 is big.
My Rolling block #4 made in 1896 is small.

The #5 has 500% of the metal in cross section of the #4

How strong is a rolling block?
How long is a string?

That is comparing apples and oranges. A #4 Rolling Block has simply the same design, but nothing else even close to a #5 or a #1 Rolling Block. The #4 is really only safe enough for .22RF, whereas the #1 and #5 were chambered in dozens of large old CF black powder calibers.

[Chill Wills]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Clark http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3864170#post3864170)
My Remington Rolling block #5 type 1905 or 1910 is big.
My Rolling block #4 made in 1896 is small.

The #5 has 500% of the metal in cross section of the #4

How strong is a rolling block?
How long is a string?




That is comparing apples and oranges. A #4 Rolling Block has simply the same design, but nothing else even close to a #5 or a #1 Rolling Block. The #4 is really only safe enough for .22RF, whereas the #1 and #5 were chambered in dozens of large old CF black powder calibers.

I think that is the point Clark is making too. At least that is how I read it.

[salpal48]

This Reply has nothing to do with weather You want to rechambler or Rebarrel. many of the rolling Blocks, Sweedish and Danish were purchased By Bannerman & Son. and Were rechambered. . Before doing anything Bannerman reamed The Sweedish to 50/70, and The Danish were Reamed out to 45/70. . I have a Danish that Has been Reamed out for 45/70. I shoot it with Reduced smokeless Loads. It was originally 11.7x51R danish

[17nut]

The Danes converted to smokeless and jacketed in 1896. They kept barrel and thus caliber only new thing on the rifles was a centerfire block.
Interestingly there was Original US/Remington and Danish (Krupps steel) made actions and the US made ones is of way poorer steel.
That ment 2 different loads was made where the reduced one had a chisel mark across the case bottom.
The Danish ones (M67/96) was rated to 1600bar~23200psi and the US ones (M67/97) was rated to 1200bar~17400psi
The Swedish loaded 8x58RD was also only rated at 1600bar~23200psi.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/AMA%20bog/patron5_zpszzs9ujhp.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/AMA%20bog/patron5_zpszzs9ujhp.jpg.html)

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/AMA%20bog/patron6_zpsdpkklfok.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/AMA%20bog/patron6_zpsdpkklfok.jpg.html)

[northmn]

One of my Rolling blocks was a Spanish 7 mm Mauser carbine. The gunsmith I had that converted it to 50-90 was trained out of Colorado and had no issue with the conversion. No trouble with the case length and loading/unloading and it worked fine. Only problem was that it used a too light barrel and weighed maybe 8-9 pounds and kicked like a mule, even with the stock I put on it. He did claim he replaced the block pin with a good high grade steel pin, not case hardened but tempered.

DEP

[marlinman93]

I believe Frank DeHaas stated the #1 Rolling Block was good for under 30,000 psi. So stronger than a Trapdoor, but weaker than most other major single shot rifles.

[rfd]

i love the rolling block action, but personally, no thanx on those old rollers, i prefer modern steel, a good build and DSTs. i'd rather just buy a pedersoli and rest easy, and i have done so 5 times so far, for both .45-70 and .40-65 cartridges.

[marlinman93]

I'm just the opposite rfd! I love Rollers, but would always choose an original, even if building up a gun. I've got two barreled actions here now awaiting my time to build them up. One will be a .40-65 pistol gripped deluxe BPCR rifle style, and the other will be done in the factory Schuetzen Match rifle style, and .32-40 half octagon. I love the Remington built Rolling Blocks. They're plenty strong enough for the old straight walled BP cartridges.