Brass 410 shells in a Taurus Judge

[Hang Fire]

Has anyone tried 410 brass (not the Wolf brass plated steel) shells in their Judge?

I know the Judge chambers have the step to prevent loading a longer 454 Casull and such. Was wondering if the brass 410 shell would just fireform and be OK, or would it become a sticky situation?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I do not have any 45 Colt or 410 shells here to measure or a Judge to mike the cylinder. BUT unless the brass walls of the 410 are VERY thick they are going to conform to the chamber they are fired in.
What is the chamber diameter before the step compared to the 410 brass? That is what your brass is going to have as its new Head area diameter.
Also if the 410 brass is new it should be fine. If it has been fired LOTS possible the brass will split from being work hardened then being forced to expand that lottle bit. You can always load one with a mild target load and find out. If the brass takes that step up to whatever load you want to fire and test one more.
With Book published 410 reloads they should eject just fine unless the chambers are rough and the brass does not release. 12 Guage & 20 guage brass hulls do. I have not tried my newly found 28 guage brass hullls. The step means nothing to brass.. just a slight "bottleneck" to fireform to. BUT they will not chamber into a tight 410 chamber later unless you resize that Fat head area back down.
Me If I wanted brass 410 cartriges for my Judge I would do so. I personally like the looks of Brass torpedoes.
Mike in Peru

[Hang Fire]

Thanks for the response, I was thinking along the same lines.

I see where Magtech (Brazil) makes all brass 2 1/2" 410 shells that use large pistol primers, but wish they made the 3" ones.

I may try some .444 Marlin cases first, they should be quite thick walled down in lower portion of the case and have been used as is for many years for shotshells in 410 shotguns and load data is available.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have no earthly need for one of those Judge Pistolas, but I surely do fancy getting one.

Four Fingers.

[Hang Fire]

I have no earthly need for one of those Judge Pistolas, but I surely do fancy getting one.

Four Fingers.

The wife recently got her Judge with 3" cylinder and 3" barrel, too much fun for her, the way she is going through factory loaded 410 shells, will soon be in the poor house at the price of the bloody little things. So I am looking for a loading alternative without buying a Mec press or such set up for 410.

I fired several rounds myself, and they are a kick to shoot, was surprised that with #4 shot, started double action on a pop can at 15', by the fifth shot, the can had bounced out to 30' and it still kicked it up into the air. The can looked like a sieve.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sounds like too much fun althogether!
Four Fingers.

PS, I just thought, if you don't want to reload, why not try the local shotgun club, you should be able to find someone there that will reload them for you.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I think you can ease the cost of going to the judge. I've been using 45 Colt snake shotshells home made with 200 grains of # 8, # 6, or #5 shot and the powder charge for an equivalent weight lead bullet (colt clone).

Now the 1/2 oz. shotload of short 410s only contains 218 grains of shot. Not enough difference between them for a judge to worry about, Eh?

[Slowpoke]

The Magtec brass is quite voluminous , I can build a decent wad column combined with a shot wrapper and still have room for 5/8 oz of shot. With just a Nitro card and a wrapper, who knows, but I bet you could get real close to 3/4 oz .

good luck

[shorty500]

the trouble with the idea of using the .410 brass or the Russian steel cases is that due to the chamber step to prevent some IDIOT from blowing himself to H**L with a .454 Casull in the TAUARUS JUDGE is that it the revolver WILL NOT CHAMBER the BRASS or STEEL case because of said STEP. have seen friend who thought he was getting bargain MAD as H**L because he purchased a case of the STEEL hull ammo and ordered a hundred count of BRASS - ONLY TO FIND OUT THEY WONT FIT!! SAVE YOUR MONEY AND SHOOT THE PLASTIC SHOTSHELLS!

[Four Fingers of Death]

the trouble with the idea of using the .410 brass or the Russian steel cases is that due to the chamber step to prevent some IDIOT from blowing himself to H**L with a .454 Casull in the TAUARUS JUDGE is that it the revolver WILL NOT CHAMBER the BRASS or STEEL case because of said STEP. have seen friend who thought he was getting bargain MAD as H**L because he purchased a case of the STEEL hull ammo and ordered a hundred count of BRASS - ONLY TO FIND OUT THEY WONT FIT!! SAVE YOUR MONEY AND SHOOT THE PLASTIC SHOTSHELLS!

Or maybe get the reamer out

[Baron von Trollwhack]

To help the thought process along: the new Magtech cases I have measured at .474 immediately ahead of the rim and .464 at the case mouth. BvT

[shorty500]

REAMER = VERY BAD IDEA! do that and sooner are later somebody will hear about it and/or the gun fall into wrong hands and KABOOM no more revolver simply because some idot somewhere will get one rechambered with a conventioal .410 shotshell reamer and then be idiot enough to fire a .454 Casull or .460 S&W round in the gun. and as sad as it would be for someone to get HURT OR WORSE at least they wouldn't do it but ONCE because that small compact cylinder wouldn't be around for them to do it again!!!!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Point taken. I don't sell guns as a rule, I buy lots, but hardlly ever sell, sorta get attached to them.

[Down South]

Or maybe get the reamer out
The (Step) in the Judge is the cylinder throat. The cylinder throats in the Judge are much longer than a conventional revolver. The reason the Judge has such a long throat is not necessarily to keep idiots from loading the wrong ammo in it but rather to keep bullet jump correct for 45 Colt ammo. The plastic shot shells will slide into the throats but brass or steel cases will not. I myself had the grand notion of building brass 410 shot shells for my Judge.

[dannyabear]

I went thru similar problem with single shot Super Commanche; I pollished out the 'step'
You could try neck sizing with a 444 die and see if that will chamber

[DanOH]

A friend of mine bought a JUDGE a while back and was told by the expert behind the counter that it would safely chamber a 454 casul. My friend is retired and has never owned any guns until now so he didn't guestion the statement. He shot it with 45 colt and 410's. Luckily he was out of 454's (his first gun is a 460 S&W) When he told me that (yesterday) I assured him that he had been "misinformed" and that it would surely do great harm. He is not an idiot but he hasn't been around or even cared about guns until his retirement (he raised 8 kids--nuff said). Gotta watch the gun store commando's!

[shotman]

Hey someone is going to try it. It may have been done all ready. I dont have the book but does it say not to? I wouldnt want to try it Someone that has OM can chime in

[Down South]

A friend of mine bought a JUDGE a while back and was told by the expert behind the counter that it would safely chamber a 454 casul. My friend is retired and has never owned any guns until now so he didn't guestion the statement. He shot it with 45 colt and 410's. Luckily he was out of 454's (his first gun is a 460 S&W) When he told me that (yesterday) I assured him that he had been "misinformed" and that it would surely do great harm. He is not an idiot but he hasn't been around or even cared about guns until his retirement (he raised 8 kids--nuff said). Gotta watch the gun store commando's!

Since you aroused my curiosity, I went out to my shop and tried a couple things. I tried to chamber an empty 454 Casull case into my Judge. The case would not chamber. It lacked about 1/16” or better fully chambering. I then tried a 460 case and of course it would not chamber. So, I say yes your friend was very much misinformed about chambering 454 cartridges in the Judge.

[Hang Fire]

Now that Wyoming ruled due to the griz problems they are having, archery hunters can now carry a handgun. The son-in-law got a light weight titanium Judge last year, only for backup, he loads a 360 grain cast boolit with a big flat metplate seated out and drives it to about 1,000 fps. I told him at the time he was foolish, but other bow hunters with the same Judge had it tested and concluded it was safe operating around 23,000 psi, or same as .45 acp +P. But I have read where some have went beyond foolish, to stupidity, they have jacked loads up to over 28,000 psi in the Judge.

Here is a guy who sells rifled barrels for the 410 and ammunition for same with a 375 grain slug tripping along at 1500 fps. He claims that pressures are are well within SAAMI safety margin for the 410 chamber pressure.

http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big%20410%20Ballistics.html

[Down South]

If I were going to buy a handgun for bear protection it would be something other than a Judge. I’m not saying the Judge won’t work. The 45 Colt cartridge is good enough loaded correctly. I don’t know why people want to make more of the Judge than it is. I’d much rather be packing a nice S&W or Ruger in 44 magnum to 454.
I guess where I’m trying to go with this is my Judge never did shoot factory bullets worth a crap. It keyholes at 25 yds and shoots low and to the right. I probably could cast for it and straighten it out but I bought my Judge mostly for shooting shot shells in. It’s my tractor gun. I use it to shoot rats and an occasional snake with while I’m bush hogging.

[cajun shooter]

It's the same with anything where you have idiots involved. That's why the courts are butt deep in lawsuits. Somebody will always take something good and try to do something it was not designed for and then sue. Then the company stops making the product to protect them selves. That's probably what will happern with the Judge; by the way I love mine and will not sell it. It brings out the fun in shooting that's for sure. Later David

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Seems as if a Lee push through die of the correct diameter and a shellholder would make short work of fitting up magtech brass to the judge's chambers.

BvT

[Kuato]

The Judge is meant for STANDARD 45LC. If you plan to use cor-bon or any of the hot loads you will have quite a surprise. No gun & maybe no fingers.

If it don't work in an old Colt SA, it won't go in a Judge...