Dirty Harry's load

[Frank]

In Magnum Force, Harry meets the other cops at the firing range. He says to 'em he uses 'light loads', "lesser recoil than a 357 with semi-wad cutters". In the movie he's shooting one handed. So what's a Dirty Harry load? I just gots to know.:-D

[anachronism]

He just refers to it as a "light special". So it's probably just factory 44 spl ammo.

[HeavyMetal]

Frank:
It's the MOVIE"S! Those clowns don't have a clue and it's always based on what sounds good not what really is!

The biggest laugh I get is watching re runs of the A Team! These guys spray about 10,000 rounds a show and no one get's hurt! Ya gotta love it!

You also need to take what you hear on the big / little screen with a grain of salt as it's usually so wrong it's not even funny!

As to Eastwood shooting the 29 with one hand? Dude blanks have no recoil only sound!

[bobthenailer]

although it was years ago! i thought he said he was useing wadcutters in the s&w 29

[hunter64]

He was using .44 Spl loads as he stated in the movie. You will also notice that he uses two different barrel lengths for effect. Most of the movie in running scenes/or drawing scenes he is caring the 6 1/2" barrel, for effect scenes he uses the 8 3/8" version. During the first movie the actual revolver used was a .41 Mag Model 57 because they couldn't get a Model 29 from S&W in time for the filming. In the final scene when Harry shoots the bad guy at the pond with the boy, you can clearly see on the DVD that it is a .44 magnum stamped on the barrel so by the wrap up they had the real thing.

[Frank]

Yeah, I know it's only the movies. Sometimes it's hard to tell what to believe. You guys dissected it pretty good.

[mooman76]

I don't really think he meant he was shooting 44 specials, I believe he meant that were special (made ) light loads. Of coarse there is no way of telling for sure, probably even Dirty Harry himself doesn't know for sure. I shoot light loads in mine most the time. Some where between special and mag loads, probably more like 44 special +P.

[Blammer]

me thinks it was this boolit he was using.. :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN7432.jpg

[Jack Stanley]

I had a mold like that once ! It worked rather well too as long as they got seated straight into the case . I had one guy start a match by throwing empty thirty-eight cases at me before I even fired a shot . Hmmmm OK smart guy , watch this . instead of my normal wadcutters , I loaded two hundred grain hollow points with ten or eleven grains of Unique into the cylinder and started my slow fire phase .

Effect ? oh yeah . He filed a complaint to the match director that I wasn't using a "duty" weapon , my captain pointed out that the department hadn't issues any model fifty-twos either [smilie=1:Soooo , by the time the rapid fire phase began he was having a hard time finding the seven ring of his target . Of course in the rapid fire phase , I switched to the wadcutters .... he was even more mad when I shot in the low nineties on the target .

Who know what Clint was using in the movies . I do know we'd have fun using my ammo :Fire:

Jack

[crabo]

My hero! He has cost me a lot of money.

[GabbyM]

I recall that movie scene. At the time I took it as a slight jab at all the fans who went out and bought M-29's after the first movie. Only to discover they are a lot of gun. After that scene they had permission to shoot reduced loads and still vicariously lead the life of Dirty Harry.

[imashooter2]

I'd wager he was using blanks...

[Dale53]

Blammer;
Let's see:
We have the LFN (long flat nose), the WFN (wide flat nose), and yours, the RWFN (really wide flat nose):drinks:

This is fresh in my mind, as this afternoon, I was worn out from toiling in front of the computer editing photos and finishing an article for The Single Shot Rifle Journal. I was about to lose my mind.... I grabbed Ddeaton's LBT four cavity 431-240 WFN and ran a pot of bullets (16 lb) in just over an hour. That mould ran SO sweet, that I nearly called Veral Smith up to tell him so (for those that might not know, Veral is the honcho at LBT). Those bullets are the "roundest" bullets I have ever cast. The point of this is that I was able to get back to work and crank out some more copy. STRESS RELIEVER!!

Anyway, back on topic:

Many years ago, I thought seriously about buying that Lyman wadcutter mould but never got around to it. I kind of made up for it by getting the Group Buy double ended wadcutter in a six cavity Lee (who says you can't go back home?).[smilie=1: ddeaton and I are waiting for a couple of Ruger .44's and are loading up on .44 bullets anticipating a full test (when they get here). We'll report further.

Frank, I just realized that I hi-jacked your thread. If you want, I can remove it - let me know...

Dale53

[Four Fingers of Death]

If you think that movie was a bit off colour, have a look at Arnie in Commando, the M60 belt is hanging from the gun with 3 two bits of wire, sorta spoilt the effect when I saw that.

I know the 29 is nowhere near as strong as My old SuperBH and my new model SBH, but I'd like one anyway.

Four Fingers.

[Box13]

As we all know harry loaded his own so he could make all the "Special"loads he wanted.I have a 29 and load medium pressure rounds for regular use.I can shoot pretty well one handed...even with pretty stout loads I can shoot 50 or so one handed with not too much trouble.Sometimes Ill take a friend down to my range to shoot and they will get a little cocky.Thats when I get out my special loads and give them a chance to shoot my 29......300 g jacketed rn boolits at almost max loads.It never fails to open a few eyes.....robin

[Echo]

If one remembers to consider EVERYTHING one sees on the screen, either big screen or little screen, is FICTION, then one will be more often right than wrong...

But it is true that DH DID say 'special' loads, which I took to mean .44 Special...

[Bret4207]

I want to know how Ranger Walker and all his pals make that neat "WHAP" sound when they hit a bad guy. Anytime I ever hit anyone it was followed by the sound of me whining and holding my hand cause it hurt so much. Must be those roundhouse kicks work better. And how come all the bad guys know karate? Why don't they just shoot Walker ala Indiana Jones and the Big Turk?

Walker, Texas Ranger. TV at it's best.......

[mosin9130]

In the italian version the text has been changed: Harry says that he use "a special strengthened load" to improve penetration and get better accuracy and the black haired cop tell to the blond one to keep hard the revolver when the blond cop fire the gun of Harry.

Bret, here in Italy the spectators of "Walker, Texas Ranger" say that if you try to strangle Walker, Walker breaks your hands with his neck muscles and also that it's not Walker to evite the bullets but are the bullets to evite Walker!

[mtgrs737]

If you think that movie was a bit off colour, have a look at Arnie in Commando, the M60 belt is hanging from the gun with 3 two bits of wire, sorta spoilt the effect when I saw that.

I know the 29 is nowhere near as strong as My old SuperBH and my new model SBH, but I'd like one anyway.

Four Fingers.

I froze a frame in the movie "Blackhawk down" and I could see the 308 blanks in the M60 belt. It kinda puts a downer on the movie like you said. Hollywood is like that, nothing is real in the movies these days. I wish they would start making good westerns again!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Ya got to remember Frank, It's the Movies, He wasn't "shooting" anything but Blanks. I agree that they were alluding to the 44 special with a target load, boolit type doesn't mean much, RN, WC, SWC at 750fps is nice and tame in a S&W 29.

I can't enjoy a shooting movie much, to much time looking at all the things they do wrong....

[686]

I thought he said he was using a spl. 3/4 load. To mean it was not a full load but 3/4 of a full load.

[KCSO]

18 grains of EC Balnk powder and a paper wad

[Frank]

I have a 29 and load medium pressure rounds for regular use.I can shoot pretty well one handed...even with pretty stout loads I can shoot 50 or so one handed with not too much trouble


I thought he said he was using a spl. 3/4 load. To mean it was not a full load but 3/4 of a full load.

So, actually the movie was pretty accurate. As demonstrated above, the director started off with a .41, then switched to a .44 in the last scene. Harry talked about reduced loads, wadcutters, the one-handed hold was demonstrated. But police can't reload so maybe that's why the 44 didn't catch on in the real world. What do you think?

[felix]

Anything goes in a movie. The actors make it or break it, not the "scenery", but the facial expressions and dialogue are king. I've seen war movies with the guns belonging to the other side. When the director calls for action, they obviously pick some gun out of the rack (for the most part). It seems the cowboy movies done by Paramount were/are the most realistic gun wise in times past. They actually had the best collection of guns, I've been told. Wonder where they are now? Some museum? ... felix

[MtGun44]

Aww, come on guys. Movies are made up fantasy. Any intersection with reality, esp
in the firearms arena is almost random luck. While a few folks involved with movies do
actually know and care a bit, much is just a convenient way to make things work with the
plot.

What I learned about guns from MOVIES----

I learned that a Glock hits much better if you turn it sideways, that a kinda skinny guy can
hide a Bren 10 and two mags in a horizontal shoulder rig under a lightweight silk sport coat,
and that a 12 ga shotgun will blow a 12" hole in a door from 3 ft away, a .45 Colt 255 gr
boolit will not penetrate a card table, but will knock a 6'4" 250 lb man about 5 ft in the
air and slam him into the ground, and a few other nuggets of firearms lore that happen
only in Hollywierd. :bigsmyl2:

In a very few cases (Tom Sellick movies for example) the movie goes to great pains to
be realistic, but even then the story must be supported by the gun work. Anybody actually
believe that somebody could shoot a bucket with one shot at an unknown range of about
800 yds, standing with the first shot with a .45 - 120 in a Sharps???
Second shot, sitting, I'd guess it to be barely possible for a really good shot, but without accurately
knowing the range, I'd say no way on the first shot with the rainbow trajectory. Great story, excellent
gun work. Sellick handled the Sharps real well (partially due to training from our member
Mike Venturino) and it is a real good movie. I've seen some AMAZING shots actually made
by folks, but I do not think anyone could do some of the shots he makes in the movie with
that equipment.

In any case, I liked the Dirty Harry character, and LOVE his point "A man has got to know
his limitations" - which I refer to personally and point out to friends on perhaps a too
regular basis. I do not worry about what ammo he might have been using, since it is
mostly made up.

Now if you have a particular application in mind, some of the experts on this site will be
able to quote you chapter and verse from their REAL experience and get you close to
whatever you intend to do with that hogleg.

I hope nobody writes looking for a 20 shot conversion for their Colt SAA! :Fire:

Hey, I saw it in a movie, must be true. [smilie=1:

Bill

[Frank]

MtGun44 wrote: Now if you have a particular application in mind, some of the experts on this site will be
able to quote you chapter and verse from their REAL experience and get you close to
whatever you intend to do with that hogleg.


No particular application, just enthusiasm for the topic, as shared by the others, and if you read the replies you will see alot of "REAL experience" that did in fact answer the question. :coffee:

[Bret4207]

So, actually the movie was pretty accurate. As demonstrated above, the director started off with a .41, then switched to a .44 in the last scene. Harry talked about reduced loads, wadcutters, the one-handed hold was demonstrated. But police can't reload so maybe that's why the 44 didn't catch on in the real world. What do you think?

I think you're pulling our legs, right?

[Frank]

So that ends the thread. Sure, it's just a movie. Is that better?

[Bret4207]

If you're serious then I think either you're a 20 something confusing reality with the movies or ....I don't know what. "...the movie was pretty accurate..". IT'S A MOVIE. It's not real. A real cop that shoots ONE person is off the street for weeks buried in paperwork and lawsuits and Grand Jury testimony. A "Dirty Harry" that has multiple shootings each week doesn't exist.

The reason the 44 didn't catch on was because no police administrator wanted the bad press and problems his guys using "The Most Powerful Handgun In The World" would bring. A few guys used them, some with handloads. The Smith 39 in 9MM and reliable expanding auto rounds started coming out shortly after the "Dirty Harry" films and the Miami FBI shootout a couple years later. That's when firepower became the primo issue and the rest is history.

[Lloyd Smale]

that would be my guess
I'd wager he was using blanks...

[Hardcast416taylor]

I hate to burst anyones bubble about how large the bore of Harry`s .44 looks on screen is. They substituted using a S&W Model 25 in .45 Colt since the bore was larger for scenes where the muzzle of the gun was most evident. I learned this by watching an interview with Mr. Milius the director. :neutral: Robert

[cajun shooter]

How about my "HERO" John Wayne using a model 92 Winchester in most of his movies even if the time period was to be in the 1880's? It's Hollywood!! I worked in a gun store when the Dirty Harry movie came out. We paid $175 for the mdl 29 at that time and sold them for $500 and up. Several if not all were fired 6 times and put away just so at the party they could stick out the chest and say I shoot one of those. The first police dept to go to the S&W 39 was the Illinois State Police. After the FBI shoot out in Miami they decided that the 9MM was not such a hot gun in a fight. One of the bad guys was shot and hit with what the doctors said were non - survivable wounds yet he killed 2 Agents after receiving them. I have the training film. Later David

[beagle]

Well, it was the movies..... Supposedly, the "Dirty Harry" gun was a tool room M29 as they (production guns) were very hard to come by in those days....I remember as I tried to get one.

At that time, R-P loaded several .44 Mag loads using the 240 grain swaged bullet. One load was 1100-1200 FPS and the other load was full power.

I traded for a 6" M29 back in those days and it came with a cigar box full of factory loads. Some were Norma "carbine" loads made for the Ruger semiauto and the remainder were mixed full magnum R-P loads and service loads. You couldn't tell the difference or at least I couldn't. It made shooting that ammo up very interesting as you'd get a blam, blam, boom with enhanced recoil.

My son and I shot several boxes of the reduced velocity "service" loads and they were very pleasant shooters.

Then, we started loading and haven't been there since.

I do remember the Norma loads would penetrate 2 1/2 refrigerators set side by side. BUt they did loosen that M29 a lot./beagle

[Hardcast416taylor]

I knew a Dr. that worked in a hospital E.R. at the time of Dirty Harry mania. He got a patient once with severe facial lacerations and possible concussion. Seems the patient tried to shoot his new M29 like he shot his .22 single six, held up close to his face! I wonder if he got to read the fine print on the front sight before it tried to bury itself in his forehead? Learned later he sold the 29 after being discharged from the hospital, it had been fired only once.[smilie=1: Robert

[Crash_Corrigan]

I had the misfortune to be involved in 5 gunfights during 20 years of service.

After every one the heavies from Division and downtown tried to see if I had violated any of their procedures or rules. This was to protect the Department and it's reputation etc. They figured if they could not find fault then neither could anybody else.

This was not a real problem until I shot BG number 3. They put me through hell for months and months. I had to undergo phychological counseling for years over this crap. I was placed on the "VIOLENCE PRONE LIST" and any time I every got involved with a BG I was put under the microscope and treated pretty badly.

After no 4 they really threw a s+++fit. They threatned me with transfers and held up my promotion to Lieutenant for 2 years.

Finally after number 5 they tied me to a desk and took away my guns and really started to turn the screws. I retired and walked away at age 41.

After shooting no 1 I would only reloaded standard boolits {department issue slug and case and primer but a heallth charge of Unique powder}. I never told anybody about my killer rounds and during the next 15 years they worked just great. No 4 involved a shot of over 50 yds from a barricaded position through the left knee of a BG. I messed up his leg so bad that the had to cut it off. They never found the slug.

The reason I shot him in the leg was that it was the only part of him that I could see...he was also barricaded behind a large 20 cu yds steel garbage container. I was fortunate to be in the dark on top of a 5 story building and he was lit by floodlights in the yard of a large gas station on Houston St and Ave A in NYC.

The fellas told me the next day that they could hear Jack {my partner} shooting...b a n g, b a n g and them me BOOM BOOM. They also said that the muzzle flash from my shots was about triple of Jack's. They only problem with those rounds were that they were tough to eject from the chambers. They stuck but they did hit hard.

Years later I had an opportunity to chrono some of those old NYCPD reloaded specials and they came in at over 1100 fps and one was 1185. God bless that old Smith Model 10 4" bbl gun that I still have. It was accurate, it was reliable, it was a great close quarters bludgeon but it had a lousy cartridge in it until I helped it along.

In '85 after I retired they started using HP boolits for the first time and then later they tried other calibers and god forbid semi autos. Now the NYCPD cop can carry a 9MM, 40 S&W, .38 Spcl or a .45 ACP. Of course all the semi's have a 12 lb double action pull and only shoot double action. No 1911 .45's allowed.

It still sucks.

[Heavy lead]

Typical big city modern day politics: Take the guns away from the good guys that know how to use them.

[Frank]

I had the misfortune to be involved in 5 gunfights during 20 years of service.

After every one the heavies from Division and downtown tried to see if I had violated any of their procedures or rules. This was to protect the Department and it's reputation etc. They figured if they could not find fault then neither could anybody else.

This was not a real problem until I shot BG number 3. They put me through hell for months and months. I had to undergo phychological counseling for years over this crap. I was placed on the "VIOLENCE PRONE LIST" and any time I every got involved with a BG I was put under the microscope and treated pretty badly.

After no 4 they really threw a s+++fit. They threatned me with transfers and held up my promotion to Lieutenant for 2 years.

Finally after number 5 they tied me to a desk and took away my guns and really started to turn the screws. I retired and walked away at age 41.



So there are Harry's out there. I'll bet you didn't spray the whole neighborhood because you knew how to shoot well. Did the top brass ever consider that? They all like to be safe, but they don't like those who are "too good" and remember, all guns are "evil". Well it sure is comforting to know that there are those like yourself out there keeping everybody safe and who also happen to enjoy our hobby along side of us. Cheers to you. :drinks:

[mooman76]

So, actually the movie was pretty accurate. As demonstrated above, the director started off with a .41, then switched to a .44 in the last scene. Harry talked about reduced loads, wadcutters, the one-handed hold was demonstrated. But police can't reload so maybe that's why the 44 didn't catch on in the real world. What do you think?

There have been many cases in the past where the police have reloaded for their departments. Either to save money or have special loads, I don't really know. With the legal climate now adays I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find a department that still does.

[9.3X62AL]

LT--

Yeah, admin pogues are clueless about street-level reality. Even after being retired for almost 4 years, I still wonder what color the sky is in their world. After my bits of exposure to armed activities, my agency wanted no part of me in any administrative rank or position. The pshrinks were harmless, largely. And about useless, I might add. I do like that "Unique JATO Assist" you gave those NYCPD rounds. Artistic Impression--9.7 Technical Merit--9.9

I have no idea what loads Insp. Callahan used on the target range, however. :)

[ExtrahoProeliator]

I'm just waiting patiently, to see if they make another DH movie. I wonder if Harry will use a .500 S&W...with, "Light Special Loads?":-D

[Shiloh]

Frank:
It's the MOVIE"S! Those clowns don't have a clue and it's always based on what sounds good not what really is!

The biggest laugh I get is watching re runs of the A Team! These guys spray about 10,000 rounds a show and no one get's hurt! Ya gotta love it!

You also need to take what you hear on the big / little screen with a grain of salt as it's usually so wrong it's not even funny!

As to Eastwood shooting the 29 with one hand? Dude blanks have no recoil only sound!

Yep,

Gotta love it!!

I especially like the six-guns that never run dry!!:smile:

Shiloh

[docone31]

Pietta, The spaghetti westerns used lots of them. The long rifles were Uberti, plus some surplus. Back then, surplus was novelty.

[44man]

Live rounds are almost never shot for movies. It is a tough acting job to show a gun in recoil with blanks and it is always late at the shot. To show holes appear, someone else shoots a rifle, then shots are edited to match the scene.
Fake recoil is easy to spot, heck my .475 does not rise as high in recoil as Dirty Harry's .44 does. With real loads I don't think Harry could keep shots in a man size target at 10 feet.

[Bucks Owin]

What I get a kick out of is watching most actors close their eyes and give a mighty flinch right at the moment they "shoot". Watch NCIS closely.....:roll:

[Frank]

In Dead Pool they fired Uzi's loaded with marbles at the elevator with Clint and his actress inside, according to the actress.

[GLynn41]

Hay crash -- were you using the 158 SWC-- I used load that bullet in a .38 with 6.5 gr of herco really perked up the 38s --at one time it was recommended load-- any way like I like the M10 too with the heavy barrell --it is the reason I like the M58 -- an over size M10 your shoot out stories were interesting - thanks for sharing

[Changeling]

Good grief guys thanks-a-lot for kicking my hero's ass all over the place, I'm sure all the things that he did were actual reproductions of his personal past experiences.

However if you get a chance or remember, look at were some of those bullets might be going they miss with, LOL.

[wiljen]

In at least one of the Dirty Harry Series the gun was not a 29 because they couldn't get one in time for filming so he was actually using a 41 mag.

[EDK]

.

WHat make model revolver is this?

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/Cowboy%20Movies/eastwoodpalerider.jpg

The larger pistol in PALE RIDER is a Remington. There were articles in SHOOT! magazine and GUNS OF THE OLD WEST about the guns in this movie. It and the holster were used in some really old movies, according to the articles.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[KYCaster]

Live rounds are almost never shot for movies. It is a tough acting job to show a gun in recoil with blanks and it is always late at the shot. To show holes appear, someone else shoots a rifle, then shots are edited to match the scene.
Fake recoil is easy to spot, heck my .475 does not rise as high in recoil as Dirty Harry's .44 does. With real loads I don't think Harry could keep shots in a man size target at 10 feet.


You're right Joe, the recoil (or lack of it) is a dead give-away.

Some of Peckinpah's movies featured what appears to me to be live ammo. In "Pat Garret and Billy the Kid" the live animal shoots in Mexico looked very realistic. One of my all time favorite scenes in any movie is the slo-mo of a load of dimes from a 12 ga. SxS fired directly at the camera. ("There's a buck sixty in him if you want to dig it out.")

A couple of Lee Marvin's "B" movies also had some very realistic scenes. I don't recall the name of the movie but it had him doing some fast double action shooting in slo-mo (is that an oxymoron?) with a 2 1/2 in M29. No way could he fake the recoil.

Doesn't have anything to do with Dirty Harry...I just think it's neat when something in a movie is actually believable.

Jerry

BTW...if you want to see fake, watch Eastwood's "The Gauntlet".....:coffee: